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-   -   Coronavirus (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/coronavirus-930602/)

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 26th 2020 11:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
66 new cases in BC, total now 725.

66 in hospital, 26 in ICU



scrubbedexpat091 Mar 27th 2020 1:12 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
One of the patients in ICU in Vancouver is 67 and was a worker at the convention center where the dental conference was held. Sounds like he is in bad shape, and his family can't even visit.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ence-1.5509552

Why they let that conference go on, I will never understand.


MillieF Mar 27th 2020 2:26 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12827808)
Why they let that conference go on, I will never understand.


Because it was a conference, where hopefully the people attending will share their experiences and make our lives better.

After this they will all get into cars which go on to mow down thousands of us indiscriminately! It happens every day! It’s called life. On Monday, I popped out of my door to give some bread to the squirrels, upturned myself on my own front step and ended up in a bad way...but, life happens, we cannot plan, or hope for our outcomes...we can just hope for the very best :thumbup:

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 27th 2020 5:17 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by MillieF (Post 12827826)
Because it was a conference, where hopefully the people attending will share their experiences and make our lives better.

After this they will all get into cars which go on to mow down thousands of us indiscriminately! It happens every day! It’s called life. On Monday, I popped out of my door to give some bread to the squirrels, upturned myself on my own front step and ended up in a bad way...but, life happens, we cannot plan, or hope for our outcomes...we can just hope for the very best :thumbup:

Well the conference made the lives of some far worse for some, hopefully none of the patients of these dentists caught it from their dentist who attended the conference.


scrubbedexpat091 Mar 27th 2020 5:56 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
Harbour Air is suspending scheduled flights for the time being, charters will still be available. They are hoping to resume scheduled service May 4th.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/03...ting-covid-19/

Delta Airlines is suspending most service to Canada.

BristolUK Mar 27th 2020 1:15 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by MillieF (Post 12827826)
...On Monday, I popped out of my door to give some bread to the squirrels, upturned myself on my own front step and ended up in a bad way..

They tripped you up, the blighters, because you didn't give them nuts.
Hope you're not too badly hurt.

Teaandtoday5 Mar 27th 2020 2:22 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Hope you’re ok MillieF.

Boris and Matt Hancock have tested positive for the virus.

Almost Canadian Mar 27th 2020 4:33 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Any thoughts of whose taxes are going to increase, and by how much, to pay for these bailouts?

MillieF Mar 27th 2020 5:16 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Thanks Bristol and Teaandtoday...I’m fine, a bloody great lump on my head...it was my own fault...I thought it was late enough in the year stop walking like Pingu!

Yes I just saw that BoJo and the Health Secretary have tested positive. Is it unchristian to pray that Trump might succumb?

It might be a good time, if you participate, to look at The Celebrity Croakers thread?

I just had a teleconference with work, we are presently planning to be out for the next four months minimum :blink: lockout.


caretaker Mar 27th 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by MillieF (Post 12828123)
Is it unchristian to pray that Trump might succumb?

Probably, but what do they know? I hope the President and all his family, his inner circle and his past and present press secretaries all survive, so not a single one of the sons of bitches can cheat the noose.

Atlantic Xpat Mar 27th 2020 6:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12828107)
Any thoughts of whose taxes are going to increase, and by how much, to pay for these bailouts?

Well, I imagine all of our taxes are going to increase as a result, down the road. And that in nature of progressive taxation, those who earn more will be a higher proportion. I'm not sure what your point is?

plasticcanuck Mar 27th 2020 7:07 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
We’ll all need to pay more, if only for the increased interest on the increased debt

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 27th 2020 8:00 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
It's either higher taxes in the future and helping people now, or we end up in a depression with millions hungry, homeless and unemployed, I would imagine some higher taxes in the future is the best solution for the time being.

There are companies laying off 90-100% of their employees, 1 million people in a week applying for EI which is something like 2.5% of the workforce and that is just 1 week, imagine it will continue to grow as more companies lay off.

Raising taxes down the road seems like a sensible solution.

Not everyone who is affected by COVID and loss of income will qualify for the announced programs, so I imagine some will end up homeless or without food, but hopefully in small enough numbers where we don't end up with massive increases in homeless because the current homeless population is more than the services can handle, so minimizing homelessness should be priority for the government.


Now if only the grocery stores would be able to offer more pick up options and not need to go inside the store.

I check Super Store website 2 times an hour most of the day, never seem to find an open slot time.

Save On wont take our card, it has the funds but their system declines it, so while they have delivery times off and on, their system wont accept our card, guess they must not accept prepaid cards.

Almost Canadian Mar 27th 2020 8:36 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat (Post 12828208)
Well, I imagine all of our taxes are going to increase as a result, down the road. And that in nature of progressive taxation, those who earn more will be a higher proportion. I'm not sure what your point is?

No point. Maybe the conversations should only be about how one can cope working from home.

magnumpi Mar 27th 2020 9:41 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
A couple on news stuck on a cruise Rotterdam ship

They say they been on ship since March 15

Who the **** decides to go cruising at that time FFs

Teaandtoday5 Mar 27th 2020 10:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
You’d think social isolating would be easy when you live in the forest. There are more cars at the trail entrances than on a summer bank holiday.

Jerseygirl Mar 27th 2020 10:26 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Teaandtoday5 (Post 12828336)
You’d think social isolating would be easy when you live in the forest. There are more cars at the trail entrances than on a summer bank holiday.

just been for a walk down by the lake. There is a new 2 way walking path and a 2 way bike path. It is very busy and people are brushing past each other or stood around talking. We walk on the empty large grassy area, or the road if someone gets closers than about 20 ft. It will get busier as the weather warms up.

dbd33 Mar 27th 2020 10:40 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12828338)
just been for a walk down by the lake. There is a new 2 way walking path and a 2 way bike path. It is very busy and people are brushing past each other or stood around talking. We walk on the empty large grassy area, or the road if someone gets closers than about 20 ft. It will get busier as the weather warms up.

4 people walked down this street today. Two pairs. Someone went by on a bicycle and a Gator full of children passed. That's far busier than I've ever seen. Don't these people have jobs to go to?

Piff Poff Mar 27th 2020 10:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12828107)
Any thoughts of whose taxes are going to increase, and by how much, to pay for these bailouts?

I think everyone's taxes will go up. Higher GST maybe?

BristolUK Mar 27th 2020 11:05 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Teaandtoday5 (Post 12828336)
You’d think social isolating would be easy when you live in the forest. There are more cars at the trail entrances than on a summer bank holiday.

Was there any sign of a goat?

It could be devil worship season. Everything is a 'season' in Canada.

Teaandtoday5 Mar 27th 2020 11:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12828355)
Was there any sign of a goat?

It could be devil worship season. Everything is a 'season' in Canada.

one of my neighbours has goats. But they’re orthodox so I’d guess they’re not involved.

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 27th 2020 11:53 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
13,000 airport workers laid off. Airport has suspended the terminal expansion and is unsure when/if it will restart, that is another 4,000 jobs lost.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...d-19-1.5513137

dave_j Mar 28th 2020 12:41 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12828338)
We walk on the empty large grassy area, or the road if someone gets closers than about 20 ft.

I'll identify with that.
There are any number of activities that the virus will use to ensnare the thoughtless. It pays to identify risks and avoid them wherever possible.
At my age I might only get to make one mistake so it pays to be careful.

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 28th 2020 1:22 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12828338)
just been for a walk down by the lake. There is a new 2 way walking path and a 2 way bike path. It is very busy and people are brushing past each other or stood around talking. We walk on the empty large grassy area, or the road if someone gets closers than about 20 ft. It will get busier as the weather warms up.

My concern is getting to the outside, is taking an elevator after someone just got out of and maybe coughed increase the risk of catching it? Hallways within the building? One reason we are mostly just sitting in our unit, seems to be less risk that way, if we do go out, I use a tooth pick to push the buttons and then throw it away outside in the trash can, then its all about avoiding people which is still a bit hard in the middle of a city, side walks are not very wide and can't exactly get 20 feet away, but I try to stay at least 6 feet away, grocery shopping people seem to always want to be close to others, like wtf stay away please and when paying its hard to stay 6 feet from the cashier considering the design of the check out lanes and payment machine 2 feet away from the cashier if that.


Originally Posted by Piff Poff (Post 12828350)
I think everyone's taxes will go up. Higher GST maybe?

My guess is 1%-2% raise in GST and similiar with PST here in BC, and Alberta may need to finally bring in a PST or substantially raise income taxes.

I don't think NDP in BC will be too quick to raise taxes, election next year, so I think they will work with what they have and get through the election, if they win then raise taxes, if BC Liberals win well chances are they will cut services first, and raid the coffers of any crown company first.

Just wild guesses out of the sky.


Sunwing is laying off all of its pilots and flight attendants, effect April 1 and April 8.

BC has had 2 more deaths, total now 792 and 275 patients have recovered.

Workers in care homes will no longer be permitted to work in multiple locations.

Outbreaks in 11 care homes now.


BristolUK Mar 28th 2020 1:31 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12828397)
My concern is getting to the outside, is taking an elevator after someone just got out of and maybe coughed increase the risk of catching it? .

How many spare sheets do you have?




https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...c87c064b6a.jpg

Don't forget to dress first :lol:

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 28th 2020 1:58 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12828400)
How many spare sheets do you have?Don't forget to dress first :lol:

It's only one floor up, could probably survive a dangle jump, might break an ankle though....... ah too risky. You idea might be better.


This article has a interactive graph showing various scenarios for the economy, best case scenario is pretty bad. I think its time to go off into the hills and live off the land in a tent.

For BC 5.2% unemployment before this started, best scenario forecast 11.2% and worst case scenario 15%.

In the last recession, I had to move back to California because I couldn't find a job, was laid off in Aug 2008 and in Sept 2009 still had not found a job, and unemployment in my area then was only like 8%.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cov...ysis-1.5510596




dave_j Mar 28th 2020 2:51 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12828402)
For BC 5.2% unemployment before this started, best scenario forecast 11.2% and worst case scenario 15%.

An interesting graph but I note that the assumptions mentioned only included the length of time the economy remained shut down. I'm inclined to add to that the degree to which the country is infected and the rate at which people succumb to the virus. This must affect the resulting unemployment rate and general economic health.
We are told that an effective immunisation program against the virus is at least a year away so we can assume that the virus will be present until then although the risk could be significantly reduced if population practice is as effective as China.
So the worst case scenario is an unemployment rate of 15%. It could turn out to be the best if I'm still around to witness it.

Almost Canadian Mar 28th 2020 3:14 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
Heart disease killed 17.9 million people.globally in 2019. Context. Is required me thinks.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/ca...ses/#tab=tab_1


scrubbedexpat091 Mar 28th 2020 3:31 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12828409)
An interesting graph but I note that the assumptions mentioned only included the length of time the economy remained shut down. I'm inclined to add to that the degree to which the country is infected and the rate at which people succumb to the virus. This must affect the resulting unemployment rate and general economic health.
We are told that an effective immunisation program against the virus is at least a year away so we can assume that the virus will be present until then although the risk could be significantly reduced if population practice is as effective as China.
So the worst case scenario is an unemployment rate of 15%. It could turn out to be the best if I'm still around to witness it.

Yeah it could be worse, it could be better, nobody really knows for sure. I get mostly concerned because I pretty much become unemployable at high unemployment rates, and high unemployment also tends to bring down wages, but cost of food, housing and such don't seem to fall along with wages, so its stressing me out quite badly. I was just so close to work again, damn virus.

BristolUK Mar 28th 2020 3:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12828410)
Heart disease killed 17.9 million people.globally in 2019. Context. Is required me thinks.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/ca...ses/#tab=tab_1

Why would you compare Extra deaths that do not normally happen with the norm?

If a new car comes out that is proven to have design/operational faults that put the annual road deaths up by a fraction of the normal road death numbers do you think some sort of attention and action should be necessary to get that car off the road or do you put it in the context of it not being many compared to how many die on the roads normally?

Siouxie Mar 28th 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12828410)
Heart disease killed 17.9 million people.globally in 2019. Context. Is required me thinks.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/ca...ses/#tab=tab_1

And no doubt Heart disease will claim a similar level of lives in 2020 - however, having heart disease will also increase the risk of succumbing to Covid-19 - oh, and on an aside you can't CATCH Heart disease!!
DUH.

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 28th 2020 6:00 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Siouxie (Post 12828627)
And no doubt Heart disease will claim a similar level of lives in 2020 - however, having heart disease will also increase the risk of succumbing to Covid-19 - oh, and on an aside you can't CATCH Heart disease!!
DUH.

It's not all about deaths when it comes to COVID either, a big part of the restrictions is to slow the spread so hospitals are not overwhelmed.

Almost Canadian Mar 28th 2020 6:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12828660)
It's not all about deaths when it comes to COVID either, a big part of the restrictions is to slow the spread so hospitals are not overwhelmed.

How many are actually being admitted to hospital? Catching it and being admitted to hospital are not the same thing. Are the crazy effects to the economy proportionate to the benefits gained?

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 28th 2020 6:28 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12828670)
How many are actually being admitted to hospital? Catching it and being admitted to hospital are not the same thing. Are the crazy effects to the economy proportionate to the benefits gained?


Enough in some places to overwhelm the hospital systems and require hospitals to hook 2 people up to 1 ventilator and build temporary hospitals in convention centers like NYC has done.

Take a look at what is happening in NYC, Italy, that is what Canada, and other places are trying to prevent.

Hospitals have no room left in their morgues, the federal government is bringing in refrigerated trailers to provide storage for dead bodies, 3,922 hospitalized in NYC as of 2 days ago, ICU beds at 100% capacity (they have a little over 1,800 in total)

Doesn't take much to see what can happen when things are let to fester and run wild. Cases are currently doubling every 4 days, which is an improvement over the doubling every 2 days that had occurred.




Almost Canadian Mar 28th 2020 6:28 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12828575)
Why would you compare Extra deaths that do not normally happen with the norm?

If a new car comes out that is proven to have design/operational faults that put the annual road deaths up by a fraction of the normal road death numbers do you think some sort of attention and action should be necessary to get that car off the road or do you put it in the context of it not being many compared to how many die on the roads normally?

Would you argue that all other cars should not be used?

BristolUK Mar 28th 2020 6:54 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12828673)
Would you argue that all other cars should not be used?

You would argue that the faulty car - the one that was different to the others - should be recalled.

Almost Canadian Mar 28th 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12828678)
You would argue that the faulty car - the one that was different to the others - should be recalled.

You'll have to explain to me how recalling faulty cars has any relevance to the current situation

Almost Canadian Mar 28th 2020 7:15 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12828672)
Enough in some places to overwhelm the hospital systems and require hospitals to hook 2 people up to 1 ventilator and build temporary hospitals in convention centers like NYC has done.

Take a look at what is happening in NYC, Italy, that is what Canada, and other places are trying to prevent.

Hospitals have no room left in their morgues, the federal government is bringing in refrigerated trailers to provide storage for dead bodies, 3,922 hospitalized in NYC as of 2 days ago, ICU beds at 100% capacity (they have a little over 1,800 in total)

Doesn't take much to see what can happen when things are let to fester and run wild. Cases are currently doubling every 4 days, which is an improvement over the doubling every 2 days that had occurred.

Has anyone died in Canada as a rest of lack of access to equipment? Has anyone in the US?

BristolUK Mar 28th 2020 7:16 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12828685)
You'll have to explain to me how recalling faulty cars has any relevance to the current situation

It doesn't. It's an analogy as you well know. You were questioning whether the small number of deaths in relation to other medical conditions was worth the action.

The analogy is that when a car is known to be dangerous and likely to result in a number of deaths that is small in relation to the number of deaths involving other cars they recall it. They do something.

Don't be expecting any calls from car makers looking for a lawyer :lol:

dave_j Mar 28th 2020 7:41 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Bahhh...
The original argument put forward was that the potential level of C19 deaths is exceeded by the level of deaths caused by heart disease and since we accept heart disease as a fact of life then perhaps we should view C19 deaths with equivalent complacency.
The problem with this argument is that we're comparing apples to oranges. Heart disease is isolated to the patient whereas C19 is an infection looking to infect the world at large.
But we all know this so why make the comparison in the first place?
It's a view that looks past the immediate effects of the virus. It's a view that accepts the fact that the virus will run it's course no matter what is done to restrict it's expansion. It's one that dispenses with emotion and simply recognises C19 and heart disease as mechanisms that kill.
And it's also a view that is as valid as any other.
So why are countries throughout the world not accepting this and opting to attempt to stamp out C19?
Arguably it's been a politically based decision in all cases.
What leadership would survive the accusation that it allowed unrestricted fatalities without doing all it could do to help?
Imagine the social consequences in terms of civil disruption if governments allowed unrestricted C19 growth.
A dispassionate view equating heart disease, that's nobody's fault, to unrestricted C19 deaths, that rebounds on governmental decision making, is valid but carries extreme risk.







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