Coronavirus

Old Jan 7th 2021, 8:16 pm
  #3661  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Mind you, there are one or two posters who would say it doesn't matter because they would have died next Tuesday anyway.
This is the reason I think it is madness to include care home residents in the first wave of vaccinations - by and large they don't go anywhere, but the care home workers do. The first priority for vaccinations should be key workers in public facing jobs - care home workers, NHS staff, teachers, transport workers, shop workers, food production workers... not elderly people who are easy to isolate. They are a priority, certainly, but not the top priority.
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Old Jan 7th 2021, 8:28 pm
  #3662  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Vaccinate the residents that don't have covid yet
or they're probably going to get it and die. They don't go anywhere outside the building but they give it to others inside. The numbers speak for themselves.
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Old Jan 7th 2021, 8:33 pm
  #3663  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I don't disagree, but this is a triage-type situation. People who are already isolating aren't top priority - people who have no choice but to engage in face-to-face contact are, and that means the care home workers not the residents. The residents are priority 2 not priority 1.
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Old Jan 7th 2021, 8:44 pm
  #3664  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Care home residents are isolated from those outside, not from each other or their carers. They are dying right now because of insufficient staffing but also because there is no way to keep them from being exposed. I'm not going to bother arguing with you.
edit; not all care homes are created equal. My co-worker's dad was in Extendicare Parkside (which became a covid hell-hole) but she was able to get him into another place in a smaller home in a town outside of the city. Nobody in or out other than staff, strict protocols, and no outbreak there. Not like Parkside where the staff and client infections are nearly equal. The Parkside residents who haven't got it yet are waiting to get it, and those who have it but haven't died yet are largely waiting to die. It isn't the only or even the worst place in the country.

Last edited by caretaker; Jan 7th 2021 at 8:54 pm.
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Old Jan 7th 2021, 10:03 pm
  #3665  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I'm not arguing with you, simply stating my opinion.There is no right or wrong answer in these cases because we can all cite examples which support our own view, which then makes the position subjective. It's very difficult to take an objective position when there's personal opinion involved.

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Old Jan 8th 2021, 2:47 am
  #3666  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
I don't know what it's like in Canada but here in the UK there are plenty of TV adverts for summer holidays and plenty of celebs posting photos from Dubai and plenty of idiots still keen to go on holiday... it's absolutely mental. What is wrong with people that, in the midst of all this utter chaos, all they can think about is jetting off on holiday?
Covid livid: Canadian fury at leaders' holidays
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Old Jan 8th 2021, 3:19 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
This is the reason I think it is madness to include care home residents in the first wave of vaccinations - by and large they don't go anywhere, but the care home workers do. The first priority for vaccinations should be key workers in public facing jobs - care home workers, NHS staff, teachers, transport workers, shop workers, food production workers... not elderly people who are easy to isolate. They are a priority, certainly, but not the top priority.
Is it not the case that the evidence suggests the vaccine makes you less virulent, not less transmissible? Even those that have had the vaccine could be passing it on without knowing. So for me, it would make sense to vaccinate the residents first, with healthcare workers second. HCW’s *should* also know PPE protocol and limit the transmission from themselves effectively.
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Old Jan 8th 2021, 3:29 am
  #3668  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
This is the reason I think it is madness to include care home residents in the first wave of vaccinations - by and large they don't go anywhere, but the care home workers do. The first priority for vaccinations should be key workers in public facing jobs - care home workers, NHS staff, teachers, transport workers, shop workers, food production workers... not elderly people who are easy to isolate. They are a priority, certainly, but not the top priority.
"not elderly people who are easy to isolate." And yet, there have already--notoriously--been monumental failures of isolation for precisely these elderly people, and they are at *substantially* greater risk of premature death when such isolation breaches occur, compared to any younger cohort. It is certainly not "madness" to make their protection a very high priority.

While none of the groups you mention are unimportant or not at considerable risk, I'd re-rank immediate vaccine eligibility as: NHS staff, care home workers, care home residents, and then other 'essential' public-facing workers. (And in saying so, I'm downgrading my own relative priority on your ranked list--I'm willing to 'take my medicine' after the oldies are protected.)
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Old Jan 8th 2021, 4:35 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
I don't know what it's like in Canada but here in the UK there are plenty of TV adverts for summer holidays and plenty of celebs posting photos from Dubai and plenty of idiots still keen to go on holiday... it's absolutely mental. What is wrong with people that, in the midst of all this utter chaos, all they can think about is jetting off on holiday?
The airlines have been advertising and encouraging travel, using social media influencers too, and offering incentives along with free COVID travel insurance coverage.

I can't really blame the airlines, they have gotten really no support from the Canadian government and can only raise so much money from private entities, and well they have a business to run and keep alive. Its a hard spot for airlines, they need people to fly, when people shouldn't be flying.

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Old Jan 8th 2021, 6:03 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Paramedics / ambulance crew should be included in those receiving the 1st wave of vaccines.. they are the first to see many of the people who are in a desperate situation from Covid and are placed at risk because of it... Ontario have just recognised that, thankfully.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...lans-1.5252953
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Old Jan 8th 2021, 7:52 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Siouxie
Paramedics / ambulance crew should be included in those receiving the 1st wave of vaccines.. they are the first to see many of the people who are in a desperate situation from Covid and are placed at risk because of it... Ontario have just recognised that, thankfully.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...lans-1.5252953

Paramedics are in the first priority group in BC, but there are a lot of people in that group and unless vaccines start to roll in quicker, not entirely confident they will be able to maintain the anticipated schedule of having the first priority group vaccinated by end of next month, but hopefully more doses continue to arrive in larger numbers.

J&J if all goes well plans to submit their emergency use application in the US early to mid February, so hopefully Canada wont be too far behind in approving them, they have a 1 dose vaccine so that makes it easier logistically as well.

All the time tables seem to be based on having at least 3 vaccines approved, only 2 approved so far, but once AstraZeneca is approved, hopefully that will help speed up doses arriving.

The first groups to get vaccinated between December and February include:
  • residents, staff and essential visitors to long-term care and assisted-living residences.
  • individuals in hospital or community awaiting a long term care placement
  • health care workers providing care for COVID-19 patients in settings like Intensive Care Units, emergency departments, medical/surgical units and paramedics.
  • remote and isolated First Nations communities.

From February to March, the immunization program will expand to include:
  • community-based seniors, age 80 and above; Indigenous (First Nations, Métis, Inuit) seniors, age 65 and above, and Indigenous elders.
  • people experiencing homelessness and/or using shelters.
  • provincial correctional facilities.
  • adults in group homes or mental health residential care.
  • long term home support recipients and staff.
  • hospital staff, community GPs and medical specialists.
  • Indigenous communities not vaccinated in first priority group.
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Old Jan 8th 2021, 8:17 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I just watched Trudeau's pep talk and it's a little discouraging. He's talking about hundreds of doses per week per province over the next week or two instead of thousands, and the shipments coming in February (he says we have more doses per capita confirmed to be coming than any other country) is supposed to allow accelerated vaccinations. The plan is to have every person in Canada vaccinated by September. I like the sound of April more, but it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.


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Old Jan 8th 2021, 8:29 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by caretaker
I just watched Trudeau's pep talk and it's a little discouraging. He's talking about hundreds of doses per week per province over the next week or two instead of thousands, and the shipments coming in February (he says we have more doses per capita confirmed to be coming than any other country) is supposed to allow accelerated vaccinations. The plan is to have every person in Canada vaccinated by September. I like the sound of April more, but it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.
It said on our local channel it will take 2 to 3 years to vaccinate everyone in Canada at this rate.
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Old Jan 8th 2021, 8:29 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by caretaker
I just watched Trudeau's pep talk and it's a little discouraging. He's talking about hundreds of doses per week per province over the next week or two instead of thousands, and the shipments coming in February (he says we have more doses per capita confirmed to be coming than any other country) is supposed to allow accelerated vaccinations. The plan is to have every person in Canada vaccinated by September. I like the sound of April more, but it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.
Canada may have ordered more per capita, but seems other countries made better deals on actual delivery. Having more ordered doesn't mean much if the delivery is so slow and staggered.

I will be pleasantly surprised if we meet the everyone by September time frame.

Chart for change in employment in Dec 2020 compared to Feb 2020, most industries still not doing well.



Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jan 8th 2021 at 9:05 am.
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Old Jan 8th 2021, 9:49 am
  #3675  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by caretaker
I just watched Trudeau's pep talk and it's a little discouraging. He's talking about hundreds of doses per week per province over the next week or two instead of thousands, and the shipments coming in February (he says we have more doses per capita confirmed to be coming than any other country) is supposed to allow accelerated vaccinations. The plan is to have every person in Canada vaccinated by September. I like the sound of April more, but it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.
In terms of orders, I believe Canada is more advanced than most.

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
It said on our local channel it will take 2 to 3 years to vaccinate everyone in Canada at this rate.
Two factors. The current rate is slow because it's for - for want of a better expression - the select few. Not to mention it's a new game.

The early supplies are also of the type with limited storage capability as it has to be kept at -70c or whatever it is. In NB, so far, they've only done it in two centres because of that. With the later supplies and normal refrigeration practice and having it in more placec means it will go quicker.

It's like those computer download bars that take 10 minutes to move from 5% to 10% and then 2 minutes later it's at 98%.

Seriously, I saw a graph today or yesterday showing how many vaccines countries had received and how many done. Canada's rate seemed in line with all the other countries; the only differences being the bars for a handful of other countries looked better because of more doses/greater population.
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