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bats Sep 5th 2022 12:28 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13138958)
But why? UK COVID level down to a 2 as per Dannys link and a town in Ontario is high risk. 70 million odd versus 80 or 100 thousand. Same variants circulating, same protocols were being used except Canada is still way behind UK on reducing some of its masking rules. UK has been out of most restrictions since Christmas yet Canada still cannot let go so we should expect the reverse to be happening.
I had to get bloods yesterday and despite the fact that masks are still mandatory they still have limited spaced out seating and will only let one person inside at a time to register then when all seats full its stand outside. I still cannot enter any Canadian airport without a mask yet i can enter any other crowded establishment without one and sit or stand right next to another mask less person. I cannot however enter the blood clinic with full medical mask and sit up close to anyone or stand inside unless person in front has sat down!

Politicians and Public Health Medics have different priorities don't they. One aims to stop the spread of disease and the other aims to get votes improve the overall life of the populace
Here's the link for your perusal
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrI...84b1901a59f556

printer Sep 5th 2022 12:58 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by bats (Post 13139114)
Politicians and Public Health Medics have different priorities don't they. One aims to stop the spread of disease and the other aims to get votes improve the overall life of the populace
Here's the link for your perusal
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrI...84b1901a59f556

I see that their figure for total ICU numbers since 2020 was only 47. This seems like a reasonable figure considering what some areas around the world were reporting. I agree that politics and health advice do not always go hand in hand but one would wonder what is the right way to go? Masking in some areas and not others and asking travelers to fill in online forms to enter the country would not appear to be particularly useful at stopping the spread. Asking a passenger to fill out a form and submit information on his/her vax status and well being if they dared drive south for a few days yet not bothering to do same if they travelled from Vancouver to Toronto seems meaningless.

BEVS Sep 5th 2022 1:12 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13138699)
Yes, but the lack of staff numbers is covid connected.

Trying to avoid health services being overwhelmed was never only about covid patients, it was obviously going to include staff numbers affected by covid. So patient numbers are down - with the expectation that they are about to rise again - but staffing is still negatively impacted.

You speak a truth .

Danny B Sep 22nd 2022 10:51 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
The federal government has decided to drop the vaccination requirement for people entering Canada, end random COVID-19 testing at airports and make the use of the ArriveCan app optional by the end of this month, a senior government source told CBC News.


printer Sep 22nd 2022 11:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13143026)
The federal government has decided to drop the vaccination requirement for people entering Canada, end random COVID-19 testing at airports and make the use of the ArriveCan app optional by the end of this month, a senior government source told CBC News.

Maybe since Justin has been enjoying his hassle free trip to the UK he has seen the light?

Jingsamichty Sep 23rd 2022 8:45 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
Well it's certainly not gone away... my wife is currently ill with COVID. She felt ill on Tuesday - sore throat, cough and flu symptoms - tested positive Weds am and is still very poorly in bed. She's been triple-vaccinated so who knows how bad it could otherwise have been.

OrangeMango Sep 27th 2022 1:01 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 13143072)
Well it's certainly not gone away... my wife is currently ill with COVID. She felt ill on Tuesday - sore throat, cough and flu symptoms - tested positive Weds am and is still very poorly in bed. She's been triple-vaccinated so who knows how bad it could otherwise have been.

You never know what's going to come up.

Khosta 2 may be a problem, or at least it's something to watch out for.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vacci...202200722.html

Jerseygirl Sep 27th 2022 1:09 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 13143072)
Well it's certainly not gone away... my wife is currently ill with COVID. She felt ill on Tuesday - sore throat, cough and flu symptoms - tested positive Weds am and is still very poorly in bed. She's been triple-vaccinated so who knows how bad it could otherwise have been.

My daughter was quite ill for approx 1 week with Covid a couple of weeks ago. She also had it at the end of March…again she was quite ill. She’s been vaxed 3 times.

I had it a few weeks ago. Felt a little under the weather, but ok the next day, apart from shivery feeling across my shoulders for about 1 week. Hubby caught it from me, he said it felt like a bad cold for several days. We have had 4 shots, getting the 5th today.

printer Sep 28th 2022 2:39 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 13143977)
My daughter was quite ill for approx 1 week with Covid a couple of weeks ago. She also had it at the end of March…again she was quite ill. She’s been vaxed 3 times.

I had it a few weeks ago. Felt a little under the weather, but ok the next day, apart from shivery feeling across my shoulders for about 1 week. Hubby caught it from me, he said it felt like a bad cold for several days. We have had 4 shots, getting the 5th today.

Interesting that despite the number of vax shots there was still issues with feeling very unwell. I get jingsamichtys comment about just how bad it might have been without the shots but of course we will never really know. To have had 4 shots and still get ill seems to suggest the vaccination is not doing it's job because so many are getting mild forms of this virus now that you wouldn't generally expect the average healthy person to be too badly affected.
Prior to COVID flu was a big issue and affected some much more than others and again some had the flu jab some didn't. I just think in general terms this is now much more like flu and will indeed cause some more issues than others. Vaccinations will be a personal choice and hopefully if those that are ill stay away from others and take necessary precautions we can move on without our health services collapsing under the strain

Jerseygirl Sep 28th 2022 2:47 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13144107)
Interesting that despite the number of vax shots there was still issues with feeling very unwell. I get jingsamichtys comment about just how bad it might have been without the shots but of course we will never really know. To have had 4 shots and still get ill seems to suggest the vaccination is not doing it's job because so many are getting mild forms of this virus now that you wouldn't generally expect the average healthy person to be too badly affected.
Prior to COVID flu was a big issue and affected some much more than others and again some had the flu jab some didn't. I just think in general terms this is now much more like flu and will indeed cause some more issues than others. Vaccinations will be a personal choice and hopefully if those that are ill stay away from others and take necessary precautions we can move on without our health services collapsing under the strain

The 4 shots certainly worked for me. I felt a little grotty during the first afternoon and evening. Woke the next morning feeling fine, apart from the shivery feeling which was nothing really. Hubby said it felt like a bad cold, but he carried on as normal, so probably more like ‘man flu’. ;) So IMO the 4 shots worked for us. Unfortunately 3 shots didn’t work so well for our daughter. She has the 4th booked for this Friday.

5th shot booked next month

Mackem_66 Sep 28th 2022 3:07 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Our 36 year old daughter had severe myocarditis symptoms following a Moderna jab that are still not fully resolved over a year later. Two separate hospitals refused to acknowledge a possible vaccine injury. I had two shots of the Oxford vaccine in 2021 and that is it for me, I'm won't be having any of the Moderna/Pfizer mrna "boosters".

BristolUK Sep 28th 2022 3:10 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13144107)
Interesting that despite the number of vax shots there was still issues with feeling very unwell. I get jingsamichtys comment about just how bad it might have been without the shots but of course we will never really know.

Apart from the medical people and their data confirming it.

To have had 4 shots and still get ill seems to suggest the vaccination is not doing it's job
That's wholly misleading.
Its job was to lessen severity overall and everything points to that being a success.

printer Sep 29th 2022 1:06 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13144208)
Apart from the medical people and their data confirming it.

That's wholly misleading.
Its job was to lessen severity overall and everything points to that being a success.

The early days of the virus compared to now are totally different. Anything and everything was being thrown at this virus to prevent deaths and massive overload of ICU depts and the vaccine rollout was one such tool that was being heralded as the only way out. However we know that as time went by the virus changed and became much less serious for most. The vaccine wasn't the only reason people were managing to carry on without dropping like flies it was a combination of factors but the main one for sure was the current strain versus the original. There are still many who aren't vaccinated and many who will not get anymore than the 2 or 3 they have had. At the same time even Canada has decided that these vax shots are now more of a precaution or at least that's the message i'm getting from the recent continued relaxing of the remaining rules.
I'm not saying the vaccination wasn't a success in general but i don't think we would be heralding it's success if we were still dealing with the original strain. You have to admit that the weakening of the strain is just as important if not more so than taking multiple vax shots.

BristolUK Sep 29th 2022 1:22 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13144325)
The early days of the virus compared to now are totally different. Anything and everything was being thrown at this virus to prevent deaths and massive overload of ICU depts and the vaccine rollout was one such tool that was being heralded as the only way out.

Hang on, which is it, the vaccine was the only way out or one of many things thrown?

I'm not saying the vaccination wasn't a success in general but i don't think we would be heralding it's success if we were still dealing with the original strain.
Hang on (again)...the message is that the vaccine is still protecting against the original but while it's less successful against Omicron it's still proven better than not having it and there's now a new vaccine that deals better with Omicron and also the original.

You have to admit that the weakening of the strain is just as important if not more so than taking multiple vax shots.
Not when it's infecting more people to make up for the less severe damage to the individual I don't. That would either be foolish or dishonest.

KayBex Sep 29th 2022 8:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
I haven't been vaccinated, not because I don't want it but because medically it's been recommended that I don't have it.

I caught covid in April of this year at my first 'outing' in a group setting in 2 years. I had nausea, vomiting, fever and shivering combined with an extreme headache and was taken by ambulance as I was severely dehydrated and medication for the headache wasn't helping. They gave me various medications by drip to alleviate the headache and sent me for a CT scan, then put me in a private room and put me on oxygen for 12 hours as my oxygen levels were below 88%. The next day they tested me for covid then put me on a stretcher in a public area waiting for the result (dozens of people were near me for hours) which proved to be positive and I was admitted to a covid ward where I stayed for 3 days under observation (mostly because my oxygen levels were fluctuating). I didn't feel unwell once I got out of hospital but tested positive for the next 2 weeks and remained indoors for 4, to be on the safe side.

Others in my family felt unwell but tested negative.

printer Sep 30th 2022 1:41 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13144328)
Hang on, which is it, the vaccine was the only way out or one of many things thrown?

Hang on (again)...the message is that the vaccine is still protecting against the original but while it's less successful against Omicron it's still proven better than not having it and there's now a new vaccine that deals better with Omicron and also the original.

Not when it's infecting more people to make up for the less severe damage to the individual I don't. That would either be foolish or dishonest.

You are being picky. I stand by my comment that whilst there were a raft of measures brought in to try and slow the spread ultimately none of them were sustainable in the long term. The vaccine however was being seen as the one tool that could get us back to some normality. Closing businesses, lockdowns and closing borders to travel was never going to last and the vaccine was certainly being heralded as our way out.
Jerseygirl has just had her 5th shot according to her comments. The US started vaccinations i believe on mass in January 2021 which means that if she had hers at the start she has had one every 4 months. Was there ever a plan to vaccinate this much? The flu shot is one yearly if you get it and that seems acceptable but every 4 months, and do you add in a flu shot too?

BristolUK Sep 30th 2022 2:40 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13144558)
The flu shot is one yearly if you get it and that seems acceptable but every 4 months, and do you add in a flu shot too?

The flu shot is annual because flue season is annual. Covid is continuous and changing, hence vaccine adjustments.

Covid vax currently wanes, hence renewals. When Flu vax wanes, flu season has ended.

MarkG Oct 1st 2022 8:16 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13144558)
I stand by my comment that whilst there were a raft of measures brought in to try and slow the spread ultimately none of them were sustainable in the long term.

And now that there's increasing research into their effectiveness, it's looking like none made much difference in the short term either.

In fact, now they're testing old stored nasal swabs and wastewater samples it's looking like some countries went through the whole winter of 2019/2020 with Covid spreading there and no-one really noticed. It looks like by the time Covid hit the media in 2020 restrictions were pointless because it was already too widespread to stop.

I also find it interesting that my girlfriend is currently down with some horrible lurgy which I seem to have either a mild case of or early case of when we rarely caught anything bad before 2020. I'm guessing that working from home and getting pickup orders from stores means that we missed the chance to develop much protection against the regular bugs that are going around.


Was there ever a plan to vaccinate this much?


How many people do you think would have gone out and got the vaccine if the government had told them they'd be getting four doses in a year and more every year after that?

MarkG Oct 1st 2022 8:41 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13144208)
Apart from the medical people and their data confirming it.

Medical researchers knew by late 2021 that any protection the vaccines provided lasted at most 2-3 months. At least in the general population; it might have been more effective in vulnerable groups, and might have been more effective against the original virus that the vaccine was designed for... but that had disappeared a year or more before then.

For example, I remember reading a paper back then which looked at Covid infections in US prisons and found that there was essentially no difference in outcomes between unvaccinated prisoners and those who were vaccinated 2-3 months earlier. Up to that point there were fewer severe outcomes in the vaccinated, but the protection rapidly waned over that period.

It's also not the narrative that people were fed in 2021, even though the test results showed that short-term reduction of symptoms was the best that the vaccine was likely to do and even the vaccine manufacturers were saying it was the only thing the vaccine was likely to do. The general population were led to believe that they wouldn't catch Covid if they got vaccinated, then told they'd need another injection every few months for years to come.

Classic bait-and-switch.

MarkG Oct 1st 2022 9:16 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13144325)
The early days of the virus compared to now are totally different. Anything and everything was being thrown at this virus to prevent deaths and massive overload of ICU depts and the vaccine rollout was one such tool that was being heralded as the only way out.

Except we now know that the early days of the virus were September and October 2019, when nothing out of the ordinary was being done. By November 2019 some medical folks in Italy had begun to notice an increase in elderly deaths from respiratory infections, but nothing special was done about it. And recent research has traced it back in Italy to at least as early as September, around six months before the panic began.

The mass deaths and overloaded ICUs literally didn't start until Covid became a media sensation and they began taking heroic measures to try to save people. Measures which the Chinese already knew to have only a 15% survival rate, and which by mid-2020 we also knew to have only a 15% survival rate because Chinese researchers published their data then.

I would really like to know what happened to Covid between September 2019 and March 2020. If the claims about infection rates are true then just about everyone in Italy should have had it before March. Hopefully we'll learn more over the next few months as the researchers dig into it more deeply.

Edit: yeah, they were originally claiming something like each person would infect six other people if nothing was done, so if you assume it takes two weeks to go from infection to infecting others that would mean in six months where nothing was done they should have infected over two billion people. Something really doesn't add up.

BristolUK Oct 1st 2022 6:33 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Latest Covid surge a ‘heavy straw on camel’s back’ for every hospital in UK

Every hospital in the UK is under significant pressure and a new Covid surge is “a very heavy straw on the camel’s back”, health leaders have warned.

At least eight hospitals declared a critical incident, cancelled operations or asked people not to come to A&E unless they were seriously ill last week. One of Britain’s most senior emergency doctor said there were links between incidents like these and the rapid rise in hospitalisations for Covid, up nearly 37% in a week to 7,024.
And still there are deniers and conspiracy theorists :rolleyes:

printer Oct 3rd 2022 2:21 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13145042)
Latest Covid surge a ‘heavy straw on camel’s back’ for every hospital in UK
And still there are deniers and conspiracy theorists :rolleyes:

So the article says its the sixth leading cause of death, so 5 other causes of death are ahead of COVID yet we still focus on COVID as per the article. And then there's this comment:
People at higher risk of Covid should get vaccinated as soon as possible, Raleigh said. “This is especially important for people from deprived and ethnic minority communities, given the disproportionately brutal impact Covid-19 has had on them
The problem is that's all very well in these rich countries like UK and USA where 5 doses have been at least offered if not given as yet. Stark contrast to poorer countries who have struggled to even get the two shots for most of their people. There still seems a massive gap between countries and their vaccination availability and take up. This is still a global virus but it's not an even playing field.

old.sparkles Oct 3rd 2022 2:35 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13145305)
So the article says its the sixth leading cause of death, so 5 other causes of death are ahead of COVID yet we still focus on COVID as per the article. .....

I don't think that's true - there is a lot of focus on the other leading causes - better diets, stop smoking, mental health support, cancer research, etc. All of these have been around for many years, and we don't notice the message any more.

COVID is a new cause compared to the others - and is the only transmissible disease.

BEVS Oct 3rd 2022 7:57 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 13145307)
I don't think that's true - there is a lot of focus on the other leading causes - better diets, stop smoking, mental health support, cancer research, etc. All of these have been around for many years, and we don't notice the message any more.

COVID is a new cause compared to the others - and is the only transmissible disease.

Good sensible logical post.

bats Oct 3rd 2022 2:13 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13145305)
So the article says its the sixth leading cause of death, so 5 other causes of death are ahead of COVID yet we still focus on COVID as per the article. And then there's this comment:
People at higher risk of Covid should get vaccinated as soon as possible, Raleigh said. “This is especially important for people from deprived and ethnic minority communities, given the disproportionately brutal impact Covid-19 has had on them
The problem is that's all very well in these rich countries like UK and USA where 5 doses have been at least offered if not given as yet. Stark contrast to poorer countries who have struggled to even get the two shots for most of their people. There still seems a massive gap between countries and their vaccination availability and take up. This is still a global virus but it's not an even playing field.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...s/february2022

Third leading cause here.

COVID has also caused a drop in the average life expectancy

printer Oct 4th 2022 12:13 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by bats (Post 13145424)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...s/february2022

Third leading cause here.

COVID has also caused a drop in the average life expectancy

No that's from February, if you look you can click on the link for an updated version which takes you to August 2022 and there it says 6th leading cause.
I see that the leading cause is Dementia and Alzheimer's. This surprised me somewhat.

BristolUK Oct 5th 2022 12:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13145305)
So the article says its the sixth leading cause of death, so 5 other causes of death are ahead of COVID yet we still focus on COVID as per the article. .

I look forward to reading your piece about how we needn't worry about heart attacks or cancer if Dementia kills more.

Danny B Oct 5th 2022 11:12 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 13145307)
I don't think that's true - there is a lot of focus on the other leading causes - better diets, stop smoking, mental health support, cancer research, etc. All of these have been around for many years, and we don't notice the message any more.

COVID is a new cause compared to the others - and is the only transmissible disease.

Every two minutes, a child dies of malaria. It is preventable and curable.
If Malaria was all of a sudden rampant in the western word, people would lose their minds. Poor old sub-Saharan Africa :(

Gordon Barlow Oct 6th 2022 12:15 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13145999)
Every two minutes, a child dies of malaria. It is preventable and curable.
If Malaria was all of a sudden rampant in the western word, people would lose their minds. Poor old sub-Saharan Africa :(

Here's s snippet from Google: The United States banned the use of DDT in 1972. Some countries outside the United States still use DDT to control of mosquitoes that spread malaria.

I remember when there was a big fuss about DDT. I remember it was banned in many nations, largely because of a book called "Silent Spring". It may still be banned in some places. Of course there are several different kinds of malaria. I caught it in the New Hebrides (in the south Pacific, now Vanuatu) and was in bed for a week in 1973 or '74, with no after-effects. I now live in Cayman in the Caribbean, where malaria-carrying mosquitoes are kept in check by an extensive government program. Our neighbour JamaIca, has a problem with "dengue-fever", a variant of the common or garden malaria. It can kill.


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