Jericho79

Of course. Although, I have to accept that when it happened, my first instinct was to think that they must be crazy- how can a sane person decapitate someone in the middle of the street? But with some of the things ISIS have been doing, I'm having to re-think my stance. I'm not an expert in these things, nor claim to be, but I think we have to put a special label on people who think they are acting on gods will.

Jericho79

Greyhound bus beheader Vince Li wins right to leave mental hospital without an escort | National Post

Right or wrong?

caretaker

The purpose of putting criminals in prisons is to keep the rest of society safe from them and to punish them for their crimes. We gave up on rehabilitation a lifetime ago. It's almost purely punitive. As I said earlier the prison system on both sides of the border is full of mentally ill people and where the death penalty is in effect for murder they are routinely put to death for their crimes. In some cases, according to our social conventions, mental instability can be a contributing factor to the crime but not an excuse for it. This isn't vigilantism; it's community standards.

magnumpi

@Jerico
So basically your first instinct is that anyone who kills some one else is mentally ill. It's so simple I suppose and saves much confusion all round ehh !

Jericho79

Which "we" are you talking about?
From a government funding/programs point of view, you're absolutely wrong.
From an ethical and moral perspective, you're absolutely wrong.

Jericho79

Where did I say that??

magnumpi

Wrong. That to me IS mental. Time will tell I suppose, if he kills again then oops, got it wrong, if he does not, who cares ??

Shard

Ok, thanks. God's will is irrelevant in my opinion. It has to be in law or anything could be justified.

magnumpi

Post 61 (crazy = mental yeh)

Jericho79

Agree 100%, and didnt mean they should be treated any differently. Just not sure they can fall within the "mental issue" category. Maybe they can- i dunno.

Jericho79

You're conflating matters. I mentioned in an earlier post about crimes of passion, self defence, arguments which escalate, etc. These are not the same thing as killing random innocents for "raping our woman and taking our lands", with absolute no remorse. It's not the same.

caretaker

I use the term "we" to represent the majority of North Americans. The government funding and programs don't change recividism among the inmate population any more than hard labour or flogging used to; for some inmates work training (when and where it is available) may give prisoners extra options upon release but in the vast majority of cases any programs that advance release dates or get them into halfway house programs are undertaken just to get home or on the street sooner, and in many cases they aren't monitored closely enough to keep them from resuming criminal activity immediately upon release. Without support once they get out they inevitably resume their old associations. Government funding is geared toward building more prisons and expanding those which are currently overcrowded. Government programs geared toward trades training aren't commeasurate with expanding prison populations so are in effect being cut back so that they are available to only a small segment of the inmate population, and the halfway house program (which is a necessary tool for re-integration from prison into society) is constantly under fire by people who don't want them in their neighbourhoods or don't think they're cost effective. My sources are prison guards, former prison guards, the former head of a halfway house program, and former inmates whom I've known for over 40 years.

Jericho79

Why is it wrong? He was found to be criminally insane, with severe mental issues. He's since been locked away for a number of years, with medication and other treatment, and is now considered safe to be out. Isn't that the kind of result a civilised society wants? Is it your position that once a criminal, always a criminal? That people cannot and do not become rehabilitated?


Just out of interest, are you in favour of jailing/killing people who might commit crimes in the future?

There are lots of people on the streets now, with no criminal record, taking meds that could turn them in to rather unsavoury people if they stopped taking. Should they be jailed too?

magnumpi

As I said time will tell. Hopefully he won't chop any more people's heads off and the family of his victim are happy for him to be out free are they?

Married2abrit

Two of my co-workers lost three family members; there was a grief counselor present today. For everyone debating the "insanity defense" SC is one of the few states that has "guilty but mentally ill". This means that if that verdict is reached the criminal would do time in the mental institution and would then serve their full sentence in a jail.