Career change from 9-5 to something else
Mar 16th 2021, 11:05 am
#46
Slightly Canadian
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 10,129
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
If you are interested in expanding your skills then you could try and get a couple of the AWS certs and then go work for one of the AWS MSPs (there's a couple of big ones in Toronto) or even AWS themselves. There's big opportunity in this space right now and I think IT background + certs would be attractive to those employers. In time you could go set up your own MSP or Professional Services consultancy (I know a few people who have done this). You would still have to deal with customers but hopefully not as angry. But realistically you will have to deal with people (both that you do/don't get a long with) no matter what path you take.
I feel like most people have to do the grind for the first couple of years, I did but I progressed over time and am now the manager of a team of 8/9 software engineers.
I feel like most people have to do the grind for the first couple of years, I did but I progressed over time and am now the manager of a team of 8/9 software engineers.
). So my point to Gozit, is reinforced, most jobs even techie ones require the ability to get along with people.To Siouxie's point, I don't want to crap on Gozit's dreams. I think most here are pointing out the challenges inherent in his approach. Good advice I think. In terms of following your dreams at 18-22 I wanted to be a Yacht Broker. That didn't work out so well once I discovered the heady delights working Procurement.
....)
Mar 16th 2021, 12:38 pm
#47
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
It gets a bit risky this dream following. Computing may be the third dullest job in the world but, at least, it's steady work and indoors.
Mar 16th 2021, 1:08 pm
#48
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,138
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
To Siouxie's point, I don't want to crap on Gozit's dreams. I think most here are pointing out the challenges inherent in his approach. Good advice I think. In terms of following your dreams at 18-22 I wanted to be a Yacht Broker. That didn't work out so well once I discovered the heady delights working Procurement.
....)
Mar 16th 2021, 1:10 pm
#49
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,821
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
I knew a yacht broker. That career didn't go well for him. He and his wife had both sailed in the Olympics, one for Canada and one for Denmark, iirc. By the time I knew them they had a nice house as a result of trading in yachts. Suddenly, yachts fell from fashion, everyone wanted stinkpotters and all he knew was sail. He switched to selling life insurance, then croaked, without having sold himself a policy.
https://olympic.ca/team-canada/hans-fogh/
Mar 16th 2021, 1:15 pm
#50
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
Gozit
Work is horrible. That is why they pay you to do it. If it was nice you would pay them.
Work is horrible. That is why they pay you to do it. If it was nice you would pay them.
Last edited by scot47; Mar 16th 2021 at 1:17 pm.
Mar 16th 2021, 2:26 pm
#51
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
Mar 16th 2021, 2:35 pm
#52
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
My dreams were more modest, I wanted to be a police officer. Then I got married at 17 and married women couldn't be police officers in 'those days', so I worked in not for profit community services and eventually leveraged that into a government management position. Never did get to wear a uniform or nick anyone
Mar 16th 2021, 2:53 pm
#53
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2013
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,960
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
If you are interested in expanding your skills then you could try and get a couple of the AWS certs and then go work for one of the AWS MSPs (there's a couple of big ones in Toronto) or even AWS themselves. There's big opportunity in this space right now and I think IT background + certs would be attractive to those employers. In time you could go set up your own MSP or Professional Services consultancy (I know a few people who have done this). You would still have to deal with customers but hopefully not as angry. But realistically you will have to deal with people (both that you do/don't get a long with) no matter what path you take.
I feel like most people have to do the grind for the first couple of years, I did but I progressed over time and am now the manager of a team of 8/9 software engineers.
I feel like most people have to do the grind for the first couple of years, I did but I progressed over time and am now the manager of a team of 8/9 software engineers.
Yes I know being self employed comes entirely with its own problems but ultimately the grind will work in my favour if I end up with a successful business.
Mar 16th 2021, 3:57 pm
#54
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,363
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
So the job offer fell through due to various reasons, so i'm going to go full steam ahead with the bolded bit. I figure, I still live at home and have $ saved up, and there are grant $ available to new startups so I am going to take the business startup program here in my local city and try to get going. Worst I could do is fail and be back in square one looking for a day job, but hey at least i'm gonna give it a shot.
Yes I know being self employed comes entirely with its own problems but ultimately the grind will work in my favour if I end up with a successful business.
Yes I know being self employed comes entirely with its own problems but ultimately the grind will work in my favour if I end up with a successful business.
Mar 16th 2021, 4:41 pm
#55
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2013
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,960
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
Since I've been in IT the only ways to make serious money have been to write and sell a software product or to do some pimping. I would imagine this is true of offshore turbine maintenance or, indeed, most any trade where there's no pyramid structure, such as there tends to be in law or in sales. No line of work where the worker is dependent on an hourly rate or salary is going to generate a whack of cash. One can, of course, live on the salary from some full time positions if one keeps the count of ex-wives and disabled children to a minimum.
My mindset at the moment is alot of the companies I have interviewed with are small companies that have been in business ~2 years and are already at a level where they are looking at hiring an employee. The owners/founders that are interviewing me aren't that much older then me. If they can do it, why can't I?
Mar 17th 2021, 4:24 pm
#56
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
+1. I agree.
My mindset at the moment is alot of the companies I have interviewed with are small companies that have been in business ~2 years and are already at a level where they are looking at hiring an employee. The owners/founders that are interviewing me aren't that much older then me. If they can do it, why can't I?
My mindset at the moment is alot of the companies I have interviewed with are small companies that have been in business ~2 years and are already at a level where they are looking at hiring an employee. The owners/founders that are interviewing me aren't that much older then me. If they can do it, why can't I?
Mar 17th 2021, 10:54 pm
#57
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Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,874
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
I left university with an Honours degree in Genetics, and really wanted to have a job in advising on Genetics to families ............ this was back in the mid-60s, when Genetic Advising was just starting.
No hope ............ the only jobs around required both a Medical degree and a PhD in Genetics.
Apart from that, all I knew was that I did not want to teach or work in Botany.
So I spent several months trying to find what I could do .......... interview with Scotland Yard for work in the laboratory for criminal detection (a civilian job). Nope, failed that interview.
Eventually, I decided that I couldn't let Dad support me any longer, so I pulled in my horns, and applied for a teaching job in Cheshire and for one in my home town. Got both, took the Cheshire one.
It was OK, a Grammar School for Girls, so some semblance of order in the classroom ........ but teaching was really not me. I think I was a reasonably good teacher (at least 1 girl told me that many years later), but I had no satisfaction for myself.
Married and moved over here, and almost accidentally got the ideal job for me, a Research Assistant. I stayed there for almost 30 years, had a variety of responsibilities, and good supervisors who gave me a task and left me to do it in my own way. I got a number of publications in my name, which led to several other good things happening.
But I was in my late 20s before that happened.
The irony was that it was in Botany!
Good Luck in your new endeavour, Gozit
No hope ............ the only jobs around required both a Medical degree and a PhD in Genetics.
Apart from that, all I knew was that I did not want to teach or work in Botany.
So I spent several months trying to find what I could do .......... interview with Scotland Yard for work in the laboratory for criminal detection (a civilian job). Nope, failed that interview.
Eventually, I decided that I couldn't let Dad support me any longer, so I pulled in my horns, and applied for a teaching job in Cheshire and for one in my home town. Got both, took the Cheshire one.
It was OK, a Grammar School for Girls, so some semblance of order in the classroom ........ but teaching was really not me. I think I was a reasonably good teacher (at least 1 girl told me that many years later), but I had no satisfaction for myself.
Married and moved over here, and almost accidentally got the ideal job for me, a Research Assistant. I stayed there for almost 30 years, had a variety of responsibilities, and good supervisors who gave me a task and left me to do it in my own way. I got a number of publications in my name, which led to several other good things happening.
But I was in my late 20s before that happened.
The irony was that it was in Botany!
Good Luck in your new endeavour, Gozit
Last edited by scilly; Mar 17th 2021 at 10:57 pm.
Mar 17th 2021, 10:58 pm
#58
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2013
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,960
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
Well, why not, indeed. That's what I did. I suspect the Professional Services consultancy mentioned above is what I referred to as "doing a bit of pimping". It's one sleazy business but there is money in it for those unconstrained by ethics.. Be aware though that you'll want to bill around 2,000 hours a year and you'll have to attend to your flock of Mariah Careys on top of that.
Planning on starting out offering services to other small businesses on a break/fix basis, then once all of my sales/marketing, legal stuff, etc is figured out and I return from my leave abroad I will start offering managed services on a monthly retainer.
Mar 18th 2021, 2:21 am
#59
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
To sell into large organisations you need a supplier number. People will do anything for that supplier number. My pimp at one time had a large screen TV delivered to the house of someone with power over numbers at the WCB only to find that a rival had given the prospect a car. My pimp was pissed because the car was leased, a 100% write off, while the TV had to be amortized as hardware. So, getting the business can be dodgy, if the client is a government agency there's usually something improper going on. Some clients spin the bodies, the pimp offers a warranty, perhaps a month, and when that runs out, the client returns the contractor as no good and takes another one, not paying for the first one. Managers who have worked in Bangalore see this as being usual "I can have someone else in your chair before lunchtime". If the hiring manager is not strong in English he or she will only take on contractors fluent in the language of his or her home country but they never tell you this, it's only when you place a weak candidate of the right ethnicity instead of a strong candidate from somewhere else that you catch on.
On the end, there's the product. People lie outrageously on linkedin, the pimp downloads that resume and slaps whatever the client is looking for on to it. The contractor turns up not even knowing that he or she is supposed to have worked on product x since before it was invented. If there's an interviewer who does know the work then the contractor doesn't start but commonly the interviewers are managers (or some nonsense such as an Agile coach) with no real knowledge and are easily fooled The pimp lies to the contractor about the rate and the cut. If the pimp isn't factoring the receiveables then he or she claims not to have been paid for months and doesn't pay the contractor until immediately prior to the contractor quitting. Pimps need a steady supply of bodies because the contractors quit for a buck an hour; it's usual to get them from wherever the pimp comes from, Russian Jews, Indians, Chinese, ideally somewhere with lots of naive people who think a contract in Canada will get them to the US; perhaps Malta has exploitable IT people. Most pimps insist on dealing with individuals who are incorporated, that way the pimp doesn't have to know that the person has no work permit, there's an arm's length relationship (see also avoidance of de facto employee status and employer payroll deductions).
And then there's all sorts of restraint of trade bollocks. Clients don't want to bother with litigation so a common ploy is to take a resume and send it to every company in the country. If the contractor then finds a position through a different pimp, the first pimp turns up and claims to have got there first. The first pimp agrees to go away for a fee or a cut. Both pimps and the contractor keep quiet as otherwise the client will just look at someone else. Contracts typically have unenforceable but frightening looking clauses forbidding the contractor from ever working in this town again except through the pimp.
I don't think this business is any dodgier than dealing in farm labourers or garment workers but it is the case that everyone involved is lying to everyone else and that's before we start on the horrors of the "set aside" dollars and the unspeakable acts people perform to qualify for them.
Software. It's easier, it works or it doesn't, they pay or you don't give them a renewal key. Apart from always being on call for support it's easier.
Mar 18th 2021, 11:37 am
#60
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,363
Re: Career change from 9-5 to something else
10 minutes worth:
To sell into large organisations you need a supplier number. People will do anything for that supplier number. My pimp at one time had a large screen TV delivered to the house of someone with power over numbers at the WCB only to find that a rival had given the prospect a car. My pimp was pissed because the car was leased, a 100% write off, while the TV had to be amortized as hardware. So, getting the business can be dodgy, if the client is a government agency there's usually something improper going on. Some clients spin the bodies, the pimp offers a warranty, perhaps a month, and when that runs out, the client returns the contractor as no good and takes another one, not paying for the first one. Managers who have worked in Bangalore see this as being usual "I can have someone else in your chair before lunchtime". If the hiring manager is not strong in English he or she will only take on contractors fluent in the language of his or her home country but they never tell you this, it's only when you place a weak candidate of the right ethnicity instead of a strong candidate from somewhere else that you catch on.
On the end, there's the product. People lie outrageously on linkedin, the pimp downloads that resume and slaps whatever the client is looking for on to it. The contractor turns up not even knowing that he or she is supposed to have worked on product x since before it was invented. If there's an interviewer who does know the work then the contractor doesn't start but commonly the interviewers are managers (or some nonsense such as an Agile coach) with no real knowledge and are easily fooled The pimp lies to the contractor about the rate and the cut. If the pimp isn't factoring the receiveables then he or she claims not to have been paid for months and doesn't pay the contractor until immediately prior to the contractor quitting. Pimps need a steady supply of bodies because the contractors quit for a buck an hour; it's usual to get them from wherever the pimp comes from, Russian Jews, Indians, Chinese, ideally somewhere with lots of naive people who think a contract in Canada will get them to the US; perhaps Malta has exploitable IT people. Most pimps insist on dealing with individuals who are incorporated, that way the pimp doesn't have to know that the person has no work permit, there's an arm's length relationship (see also avoidance of de facto employee status and employer payroll deductions).
And then there's all sorts of restraint of trade bollocks. Clients don't want to bother with litigation so a common ploy is to take a resume and send it to every company in the country. If the contractor then finds a position through a different pimp, the first pimp turns up and claims to have got there first. The first pimp agrees to go away for a fee or a cut. Both pimps and the contractor keep quiet as otherwise the client will just look at someone else. Contracts typically have unenforceable but frightening looking clauses forbidding the contractor from ever working in this town again except through the pimp.
I don't think this business is any dodgier than dealing in farm labourers or garment workers but it is the case that everyone involved is lying to everyone else and that's before we start on the horrors of the "set aside" dollars and the unspeakable acts people perform to qualify for them.
Software. It's easier, it works or it doesn't, they pay or you don't give them a renewal key. Apart from always being on call for support it's easier.
To sell into large organisations you need a supplier number. People will do anything for that supplier number. My pimp at one time had a large screen TV delivered to the house of someone with power over numbers at the WCB only to find that a rival had given the prospect a car. My pimp was pissed because the car was leased, a 100% write off, while the TV had to be amortized as hardware. So, getting the business can be dodgy, if the client is a government agency there's usually something improper going on. Some clients spin the bodies, the pimp offers a warranty, perhaps a month, and when that runs out, the client returns the contractor as no good and takes another one, not paying for the first one. Managers who have worked in Bangalore see this as being usual "I can have someone else in your chair before lunchtime". If the hiring manager is not strong in English he or she will only take on contractors fluent in the language of his or her home country but they never tell you this, it's only when you place a weak candidate of the right ethnicity instead of a strong candidate from somewhere else that you catch on.
On the end, there's the product. People lie outrageously on linkedin, the pimp downloads that resume and slaps whatever the client is looking for on to it. The contractor turns up not even knowing that he or she is supposed to have worked on product x since before it was invented. If there's an interviewer who does know the work then the contractor doesn't start but commonly the interviewers are managers (or some nonsense such as an Agile coach) with no real knowledge and are easily fooled The pimp lies to the contractor about the rate and the cut. If the pimp isn't factoring the receiveables then he or she claims not to have been paid for months and doesn't pay the contractor until immediately prior to the contractor quitting. Pimps need a steady supply of bodies because the contractors quit for a buck an hour; it's usual to get them from wherever the pimp comes from, Russian Jews, Indians, Chinese, ideally somewhere with lots of naive people who think a contract in Canada will get them to the US; perhaps Malta has exploitable IT people. Most pimps insist on dealing with individuals who are incorporated, that way the pimp doesn't have to know that the person has no work permit, there's an arm's length relationship (see also avoidance of de facto employee status and employer payroll deductions).
And then there's all sorts of restraint of trade bollocks. Clients don't want to bother with litigation so a common ploy is to take a resume and send it to every company in the country. If the contractor then finds a position through a different pimp, the first pimp turns up and claims to have got there first. The first pimp agrees to go away for a fee or a cut. Both pimps and the contractor keep quiet as otherwise the client will just look at someone else. Contracts typically have unenforceable but frightening looking clauses forbidding the contractor from ever working in this town again except through the pimp.
I don't think this business is any dodgier than dealing in farm labourers or garment workers but it is the case that everyone involved is lying to everyone else and that's before we start on the horrors of the "set aside" dollars and the unspeakable acts people perform to qualify for them.
Software. It's easier, it works or it doesn't, they pay or you don't give them a renewal key. Apart from always being on call for support it's easier.
