Neoshoegal

There are several issues with the offer.
Just a few:
Still no clarity on the CSI issue which is preventing thousands of EU citizens from getting permanent residency, especially carers and stay at home parents.
What would happen if you have PR but move to another country for an extended period of time, for example to take care of an ill relative, and want to move back to the UK? Currently it would mean that you lost PR and fall under different rules, even if you lived in the UK decades before.
What about voting rights? Currently EU citizens are allowed to vote in local elections, that is an EU right. Will they lose that right?
People who travel extensively for work, even if they are registered as residing in the UK can't built up PR, even if they technically lived in the UK for decades.

On 12 June the EU made an offer which was far more generous to UK citizens in the EU. Theresa May decided to come with an offer which still leaves EU citizens in limbo and is about as clear as her statement about a "red, white and blue Brexit".

From the 3 Million:
"EU citizens in the UK have been waiting for 12 months to know what their future

might entail. The Prime Minister tonight set out details, anchoring their future rights in

the notoriously difficult and unfair UK immigration law.

Based on the information we have so far, Theresa May's announcement falls short of

our expectations and is unacceptable in its current form. It fails on several points

which would enable EU citizens in the UK to continue to live normally after Brexit.

• It fails to mention the indivisible rights that EU citizens currently enjoy. In

other words, all rights such as residency, the right to continue to work,

whether employed or self-employed, or run a business, recognition of

qualifications, right of equal treatment, right to move between and work freely

across all EU countries without loss or change of any existing EU rights, right

to family reunification, the right to healthcare, pensions, social benefits/social

assistance, etc.

• No lifetime guarantee of these rights, and enforcement of these rights subject

to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

• No confirmation of the cut-off date for EU citizens currently living in the UK (as

well as UK citizens in the EU) to qualify for their rights as the date on which

the UK leaves the EU

• No details on a new reformed permanent residence (PR) application process

enabling all EU citizens to freely and easily claim the above rights by the cut-
off date referred to above without discrimination

• No reference to the ring-fencing of the agreement reached between the British

Government and the EU, to ensure the settlement will be legally binding

notwithstanding the outcome of the rest of the negotiations"

dbd33

Isn't the whole point of Brexit to get rid of the foreigners? It seems to me obvious that a Little Englander government is not going to support foreign citizens living in the UK as they did before. In the circumstances I think May's statement to be reasonable. She's not suggesting that all EU nationals will have to go.

Uncertainty and insecurity will encourage people to leave so I don't think we can expect a rush to clarity from the government. I assume her pact with the devil will mean that, if there is greater clarity, it will reflect a harder stance; after all so many of them Euros are Papists.

dave_j

This drip drip drip of EU arm twisting suggesting that enough will never be enough will be counter-productive.

The EU argument regarding trade negociations has been, first we agree on the exit then we discuss the trade. I fail to see the difference between trade and right of residence other than that one favours the EU and the other on the UK wish list.

If the EU keep twisting the knife and if the media keep reporting it as bullying then even a beleagured May will find unexpected support from an outraged electorate and May would do well to play on this because EU bureacrats, like Trump, just can't help putting the feet in their salivating mouths.

Jingsamichty

As a result of Theresa May's deal with the DUP, I fully expect that foreigners trying to enter the UK will now also be asked 'what school they went to'.

Neoshoegal

So today's clarifications.
losing the right to vote in local elections,
losing the right to move family members in with you (for example elderly parents if you want to take care of them),
losing the right to move out of the country for an extended period of time and freely move back (for example to take care of relatives or for a temporary job),
having to carry some "special card" (being a historian, this does not fill me with confidence).
And "healthcare, professional qualifications and the rights of the self-employed are put in a negotiating category of “seek to ensure continuity” rather than a UK unilateral guarantee." So no idea if EU citizens still have access to the NHS despite paying NI and no clarifications of the CSI requirements.
If they're getting "near" citizens' status, does that mean they'll also just have to pay "near" citizens' taxes?

Talk about being made to feel like second class citizens and de-humanising them for the sake of making them bargaining chips. 1300 Academics have already left the UK, they can't get enough nurses or doctors to come to the UK, it seems bullying EU citizens out is the preferred route. Bearing in mind that EU citizens are a £2 billion net gain to the UK economy, taking the ultra right-wing nationalist approach in dealing with EU citizens is just shooting yourself in the foot.
Meanwhile, the EU offered to unilaterally guarantee the rights of UK citizens living the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-after-brexit

mrken30

Would you want to stay in a country with those terms? The US has ID cards for PRs, no rights to vote etc. Next the UK will be demanding worldwide taxation for all citizens.

Almost Canadian

I suggest that most coming to Canada did.

scrubbedexpat142

& of course "foreigners" means ALL foreigners...

scrubbedexpat142

Britain wants Brexit. Following Brexit, Britain wants a post Brexit trade deal - obviously the latter must follow the former. Alternatively Britain leaves (its prerogative) without a trade deal.

dbd33

I think the Conservatives would draw the line at Phil the Greek.

Almost Canadian

Not at all. Brexit is relatively straightforward: Britain leaves. Now the EU wants thing post Brexit and Britain wants things post Brexit. It really doesn't matter what they are, they can be negotiated at the same time.

The EU wants to avoid any other state following Britain's lead, so they are going to make it as hard as possible for Britain to get what it wants. There is nothing within Article 50 that requires settlement of the "divorce" before trade negotiations may start. The powers that be in the EU have simply decided that that is what is going to happen.

BTW, having no trade deal isn't just going to affect Britain. It will affect lots of EU states that do lots of trade with Britain too.

The best way forward is for everything to be dealt with at the same time and for both sides to be reasonable. Time will tell whether that is possible.

scrubbedexpat142

Of course,Greece being a member of the EU...

BristolUK

You've got to laugh.
Brits are getting Blue and Gold passports back.
Made by the French and Dutch.

Post-Brexit passports set to be made by Franco-Dutch firm

Almost Canadian

What's funny about that?

Britain held an open competition and a supplier won which means the cost to the people wanting a passport will be lower than if a British company won the contract. That's a good thing, isn't it?

scrubbedexpat142

It is a good thing, what is funny is that much of the "patriotism" expressed by many Brexit protagonists rarely translates into reality, when purchasing decisions are made.