Boeing 737 Max 8

Old Jun 29th 2019, 3:23 am
  #181  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

With today's "fly by wire" aircraft the controls in the cockpit (joy stick, throttle and the suchlike) are not connected mechanically to the functions they control. They are connected to a computer which has "flight envelope software" which reads all the inputs from the cockpit controls (and others from static sensors on the air frame, remember the external air speed sensor that used to get iced up and give false readings?) and determines if those inputs are within the flight envelope for safe flying, if the pilot inputs something that is outside the flight envelope that would put the plane in jeopardy then the computer will either notify the pilot via a warning light or audible notice or it would override the input and change it to an input that is within the flight envelope software. The first fully fly by wire commercial aircraft was the airbus A320, Yes the one that crashed at the Paris air show, now was that pilot error or flight envelope software issues? The pilot comes in for a low level pass but the computer thinks its coming in to land and takes control and it crashes into the trees. It is not economically viable to debug 100% the flight envelope software there are too many inputs most of which have many variables and to debug every combination is not going to happen so manufactures just debug the things they know that will cause major problems and enough to get certification.
. Boeing must have followed all the correct procedures to get FAA approval for the original 737 but once they changed the engines and the position of them did they redebug the whole software or just the parts of it that they thought would be affected.
So i am afraid its not like the old movies where Errol Flynn would be fighting the controls of an out of control DC3 and prevent it crashing into an orphanage and win the hand of the fair maiden. We are all doomed Cpt Mainwaring.
There are things outside the software that can affect it too just imagine if every passenger plugged a phone/ laptop/ i player into the socket at the same time would the power needed take power away from where it is realy needed. Do they calculate for those sort of scenarios.
.
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Old Jun 29th 2019, 3:34 am
  #182  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by MidAtlantic
No I mean before they put forward their software solution following the crashes I would have thought they would test it in all possible ways to destruction before handing it off to the FAA. They obviously did not, which yet again calls into question their competence and quality control.
Seems like the most recent issue isn't related to the MCAS software/update, but a separate issue.

"The problem occurred during a scenario that commercial pilots are highly unlikely to encounter, and doesn’t involve the flight-control software linked to the two crashes, according to one of the people."

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...box=1561736893



Boeing should clean house, top to bottom, all new management brought in from outside the company, new board of directors, keeping current management is not good PR in my view, all these fiasco's happened on the current management's watch, they should be ousted, fresh management with a new set of eyes is needed.



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Old Jun 29th 2019, 12:02 pm
  #183  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
IAG is the one who placed the order, they own BA and several other airlines and the 200 ordered wont all be going to BA.

Also seems IAG feels they are too reliant on Airbus and want to diversify their fleet a bit.

"Walsh noted that there had been "concern" within the airline group for some time that it was becoming too reliant on the European airframer.

"That's unhealthy," says Walsh."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...aptive-459324/
It’s not even an order but, rather an option to buy I think. So, if events dictate, I’m sure IAG can revise or cancel. One does rather imagine that they were able to secure a very good price!
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Old Jun 29th 2019, 5:09 pm
  #184  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat


It’s not even an order but, rather an option to buy I think. So, if events dictate, I’m sure IAG can revise or cancel. One does rather imagine that they were able to secure a very good price!
An LOI which I am sure gives IAG an out if needed, will be interesting to see when/if its converted to a confirmed order.
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Old Jun 29th 2019, 8:33 pm
  #185  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Is there a crack in the dam?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinr.../#1bf044bfad8a
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Old Jul 3rd 2019, 10:00 pm
  #186  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Ah well, at least something is now being done for the families of the dead...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ctims-families
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Old Jul 5th 2019, 12:24 am
  #187  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKCN1TZ1I0
Boeing has now reached the point in the hole when they should really consider stop digging.
No doubt there are some who'll look back and thank uncle Bill for getting himself killed on a 737 MAX and gifting them a windfall and no doubt the bean counters at Boeing, faced with the prospect of punitive damages, are seeking to exploit this attitude and preempt it to take control of the story....
BUT...
Think about others who'll see this as a form of 'blood money' or payoff to kill the real story that the MAX is an unsafe aircraft that killed their loved ones for whom haggling about how much they were worth will not be welcomed.
This offer smacks of 'much too little much too late'.
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Old Jul 5th 2019, 1:44 am
  #188  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Looks like Lion Air families are in settlement talks to avoid a trial. Any proposed settlement is to be reviewed in hearings starting July 17th.

"Mediation to settle more than 50 lawsuits related to the Lion Air crash could lead to a deal by late August, plaintiffs’ lawyers said during Thursday’s hearing."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...ms-11561647474 (paywall FYI)
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Old Jul 5th 2019, 4:06 pm
  #189  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

$100 million is a pitifully small amount of money. It smacks so hard of "these are poor people from poor countries. Let's bung them a couple of hundred grand each to make them shut up and go away... and throw a few million into 'community projects' so that we can call the whole thing a 'goodwill donation.'" Jesus, but that's callous, even for an organization as evidently uncaring about the priority of profit vs human safety as Boeing has shown itself to be.
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Old Jul 5th 2019, 5:23 pm
  #190  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
$100 million is a pitifully small amount of money. It smacks so hard of "these are poor people from poor countries. Let's bung them a couple of hundred grand each to make them shut up and go away... and throw a few million into 'community projects' so that we can call the whole thing a 'goodwill donation.'" Jesus, but that's callous, even for an organization as evidently uncaring about the priority of profit vs human safety as Boeing has shown itself to be.
I have only practised in two jurisdictions but, in both, it is far less expensive to kill someone as a result of negligence than it is to injure them. IIRC, the damages for a fatal accident were 10,000 in England and Wales, although damages for loss of future earnings, loss of use, could be substantial. However, the Supreme Court of Canada has decided that, rather than using a multiplier/multiplicand (one times the other to provide a future figure for future losses - so someone earning 50,000 and expected to live for another 20 years would receive 50,000 x Y, with Y being discounted for accelerate receipt and future contingencies), Canadians have to accept all in a "loss of capacity" claim that results in a maximum of around 150,000.

Hopefully, jurisdiction will rest in the US and a sympathetic jury will award massive punitive damages.
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Old Jul 5th 2019, 6:10 pm
  #191  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I have only practised in two jurisdictions but, in both, it is far less expensive to kill someone as a result of negligence than it is to injure them. IIRC, the damages for a fatal accident were 10,000 in England and Wales, although damages for loss of future earnings, loss of use, could be substantial. However, the Supreme Court of Canada has decided that, rather than using a multiplier/multiplicand (one times the other to provide a future figure for future losses - so someone earning 50,000 and expected to live for another 20 years would receive 50,000 x Y, with Y being discounted for accelerate receipt and future contingencies), Canadians have to accept all in a "loss of capacity" claim that results in a maximum of around 150,000.

Hopefully, jurisdiction will rest in the US and a sympathetic jury will award massive punitive damages.
Oh, I have no doubt the damages claims will be significant - an am well aware that the system in the US is vastly different in terms of dollar amounts to that in Canada or the UK. It was my understanding, though, that this proposed $100 million fund was outside the scope of any legal process, but with undertones of expectation - or at least hope (nowhere stated explicitly, of course) - that lawsuits may be dropped as a result.
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Old Jul 5th 2019, 6:42 pm
  #192  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
Oh, I have no doubt the damages claims will be significant - an am well aware that the system in the US is vastly different in terms of dollar amounts to that in Canada or the UK. It was my understanding, though, that this proposed $100 million fund was outside the scope of any legal process, but with undertones of expectation - or at least hope (nowhere stated explicitly, of course) - that lawsuits may be dropped as a result.
OK. I would fire the marketing team, if that is their intention!
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Old Jul 5th 2019, 11:30 pm
  #193  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

This is encouraging, I think. Unless the EASA is full of ex-Boeing engineers and execs too...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...g-list-demands
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Old Jul 6th 2019, 12:32 am
  #194  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

While I don't doubt that various international aviation regulators are independently minded, I have a small niggle that simply won't go away.
In my mind Boeing has some headway to overcome, among these are the Trump trade war with the Chinese, the suit against Airbus for alleged subsidies and the unrelenting hounding of the Bombardier C Series and no doubt there are many other blunt axes waiting to be ground.
There is little sympathy for Boeing's plight and the European Aviation Regulator is making a point by drawing a line in the sand. It remains to be seen just how awkward they, and others, mean to be in the future.
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Old Jul 7th 2019, 3:28 pm
  #195  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

The crack widens...
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48899588
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