Coffeepot

I wonder why bats can't see them ?

PaulandNikki

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7581990.stm

dbd33

At the time of Cherbobyl I was doing some work at Darlington (site of a bunch of reactors east of Toronto). The buzz there at the time was that the Chernobyl station met the standards for nuclear safety in Canada and was more safe than the stripped down versions Canada and France sell in Asia. Had I felt safe at Darlington before then that might have given me doubts.

dbd33

What they do with it here is to put it in swimming pools on stilts. When the pools are full they build more. What they do in the US and, I believe, other parts of Canada, is to bury it in parts of the country where only natives live. Whether or not the aboriginal population would prefer wind farms or toxic waste isn't something I've heard asked.

dbd33

Well no, what used to be a field is now concrete. There was an interesting piece on the BBC last week about wind farms in New York State, there they pay $8,000/year per windmill in rent. Obviously, for a dairy farmer with say, a dozen windmills, that's a lot of revenue. For the county as a whole though the case is less clear. The cost of the loss of tourism may wipe out the revenue to the few farmers and it results in a concentration of wealth and so less tax revenue for the county.

dbd33

And part of the "green ethos" is having attractive countryside. Windfarms, rubbish dumps, gravel pits and so on detract from that. Stick the windmills in the concrete wastelands of, say, Mississauga or Etobicoke, and then they'd be a bit greener.

fledermaus

I have never worked out why the Darlington plant needs a wind turbine. Some say it powers the plant...

My cousin lives near one in Norfolk and she says its noisy, but you get used to it. Maybe you do, I used to live by the train line in Swiss Cottage and never noticed the noise.

I am still in two minds about them, but when compared to Nuclear Plants they look a damn sight prettier.

Jingsamichty

I suppose a bat sends it's echo-signal and gets no response, i.e. the blade is not there. "Clear to go," thinks the bat. But in that second or so the blade has moved. Ooops.

I think the negative effect of wind turbines on wildlife is overstated. Sure, some birds and bats get whacked, but consider the acid rain and other pollution that fossil fuel power stations produce.

At the moment, wind-turbine and other 'green' energy sources are inefficient and insufficent... but the efficiencies will improve as the engineering develops. So basically we have to keep using them in order for them to get better.

Personally though, I think nuclear is the only middle-term answer. We keep using more and more energy than ever before. Just look at the number of gadgets that are plugged in in an average home today, and then think back 30 years. It was only the TV and a standard lamp then!

dbd33

I don't think they do.

The environmental impact of a windfarm isn't just the turbines. In the case of power stations the footprint is small and the urban ones are located in already blighted neighbourhoods close to where the power is needed. They are ugly but you have to be right next to them to notice. The same is true of coal fired power stations, with scrubber technology I expect they too are better for the environment than wind power.

The wind farms are rural and cover several square miles apiece, they then have tracks of pylons and cables stretching for miles across the countryside to where the power is needed (The industrial estates of Pickering, for example). Even if you think an individual windmill is pretty, the power corridors certainly are not.

Again, if the windmills were located on top of factories, there'd be a better case that they're, if not green, slightly bluish.

Steve_P

According to recent research the bats are not getting hit by the blades.

Apparently they fly close to the blades and their lungs collapse and they die in the vacuum that is created just behind the blade.

Jingsamichty

Goodness! Would never have thought of that.

Perhaps an ultrasonic warning signal on each mast would help?

Steve_P

Recent article in the Calgary Herald.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...5-f919b2a2e98a

From the article "Bat deterrents have been tested, including noise, lights and nets, but none has been effective."

Novocastrian

And as a bit of polemic, I think you're talking poppycock.

LCAs (Life Cycle Assessments) are always done on wind turbine designs.

Here is a typical one....

http://www.vestas.com/en/about-vesta...ent-(lca).aspx

The time this particular (off-shore) system requires to regenerate all the energy used in its construction and installation is 9 months. Its design lifetime is twenty years, so it will pay back the initial energy investment 35 times over.

Novocastrian

The latest scheme involves ultrasound pulses which mimic bats' echo locators. It's referred to in passing in the bbc link in post #32.

Novocastrian

Oh, and you might find this relevant....

http://tinyurl.com/yopp84

... or not.