Re: Bikers
 

Do Range Rovers count as SUV's, they certainly seem to do a lot of passing ?!

Re: Bikers
 

They are SUVs, yes, but I haven't seen one on a open road. I think they just go to and from the mall.

Re: Bikers
 

So we've pretty much established that people buy harleys due to it being a brand not due to the bikes attributes. Now I see other Canadians (usually in their 40's or older to be fair) who refuse to buy or look at anything but Chevrolet or Chrysler. It's almost like North Americans develope a sense of brand loyalty far more than I witnessed in the UK.

Genuine question.

Does this make them fools for not recognising other companies/countries technologies/innovations or is there something else that we in the UK are missing?

Such as buying local to keep local people employed?

Is the above even true?

Re: Bikers
 

German cars have quite a fierce brand loyalty in the UK.

It doesn't make them fools at all. Simply brand preference.

Re: Bikers
 

Alan2005 makes a rather important, albeit a goading point, when it comes to consumerism. Although it’s not entirely our fault, I think we confuse quality as a cultural value. Its denotation and connotation. The difference between a Chippendale table and a farm table. Or take a computer for instance, it denotes its use/object: receives information and outputs information but it also connotes or plays as an element of sophistication and prestige. As the saying goes, don’t ask what your computer can do for you, ask what you can do for your computer.

Re: Bikers
 

Come again :confused: ! Lost me after the first sentence.

Re: Bikers
 

At least since post WW2 the value that we are primarily defined by, is consumption. The main reasons people give to rationalize their emigration to Canada for example, are; for a better life, more 'opportunities' for them and their children, bigger house, skiing, outdoors per suits etc. All are examples of the desire to consume more. The appetite is so strong they're willing to alienate themselves from their families and communities and gamble their savings and careers to do so.

Re: Bikers
 

I think that North American men are kind of emasculated by their culture. Go to school, go to college, get a job, pay the RRSP/401(k), raise the family, play hockey in the winter, golf in the summer, holiday in Mexico in February, send the kids to college.... it's like an horrific treadmill that they can't get off.

Getting a Harley is their way of reclaiming a little bit of that life for themselves... they can be free, unshackled, be the young rebel for a few hours. So, to show that independence, they all buy Harleys and Harley leather jackets, and make detailed plans to meet their friends who have the same bike and gear, and then they ride out the same route at the same time every sunny Sunday, when they get back in time for tea and put the rebel back in the garage for another week.

Livin' the dream, eh?

Re: Bikers
 

So how to non "North American men" in the developed world behave any differently?

Re: Bikers
 

Like a pickup truck, I'm sure for Americans a Harley a substitute for the horse which in turn represents the idealized rugged freedom of going west. Canadians are like little brothers, they just emulate what Americans do without the reasoning.

Re: Bikers
 

I'm not sure. But the "Harley culture" is pretty exclusively North American. Sure, there are bikers elsewhere in the west, but nothing like the Harley bikers here - the shiners, polishers, only ride on sunny Sundays, the accessorizing, the costumes... it's uniquely North American.

These bikes are expensive! Not many British guys that I know will drop $20-30k on a bit of kit they only use for a few hours a week at most.

Re: Bikers
 

In the UK, they spend a lot of time at the allotment

Re: Bikers
 

It's easy to get caught up in commercialism and try and keep up with the "Joneses", who has the nicest toys (RV, quads, bikes, boats), biggest house and best holidays abroad.

Have to admit that I was a little caught up in it but going thru a divorce and starting from scratch gives you a new perspective on things though.

Live a simpler life, provide for my kids and see more of the world works for me now. Not that I ever owned a Harley.

Re: Bikers
 

But thats about providing and self-sufficiency. They're not having it off with each other every half an hour in a gas station toilet.

Re: Bikers
 

They don't have the cultural emasculation, so don't need to pretend to be a rebels in the same way..