dbd33

You know, of course, that schools in Toronto go to great lengths to ensure that their students have no trace of Canada in their accents. "Twenty-five rabbits" was, as I recall, a key test phrase.

montreal mike

I fail to see the significance of 'vingt-cinq lapins'.

I suspect those in the Toronto schools feel they are giving these kids an edge in later life. To me it is nothing but snobbism.

Largo

I speak, read and write French and German, besides English. In Univerisity, I wanted to take a course which had a pre-requisite of being able to read Spanish. I consultated with the prof. and told him I had no Spanish. Having noted that in grammar school in England I had taken Latin , he gave me a few pages of Spanish , asked me to read them and give him a broad translation, not word for word. This I was able to do. I was then able to take the course I wanted.

I speak Parisian French, but where I lived and worked, several years ago the French community had their own dialect which I found hard to understand, as I did in other parts of France, outside of Paris. I decided to take a Summer Session of French Immersion. I did very well. As part of this course we had to do an exercise using the subjunctive , in all of the tenses . My exercise, a poem, was submitted, by my prof. to a panel in charge of publishing a magazine of work by the Immersion class. All agreed that my submission was by far the best, but would not publish it. Why? I was not of French heritage.
So, be aware that bias may exist, but this was a few years ago.

In spite of that , if your child can handle it, I do think it is a good idea to at least try French Immersion, my oldest granddaughter has done so and will graduate in the next few days in the top 5% of her class.

montreal mike

why am I not surprised? Snobism all over again.

Novocastrian

Schools in Newcastle (or at least those of the pretentious variety I attended) did something similar.

Didn't work, did it? Twenty five rabbits? Last a bloody year that would, man.

ExKiwilass

My daughter was offered a spot in early french immersion which we turned down. Partly I was turned off by the snobbiness associated with it - on the downlow it's very popular in BC as a way to avoid all the non-english speakers in the english stream. partly I just wasn't convinced that french immersion in an anglophone province like BC, where she won't ever get to use it or hear it outside of school, is such a great idea.

Also there's a question here about how 'french' the french teachers really are - or are they actually anglophones who went through the french immersion system, meaning their accent and use of french is not truly like a native speaker.

Both OH and I learned french as adults. My understanding now is still pretty good, he's fluent from living and working in France. he can also speak greek, learned while in Greece as an adult. IMO the best way to learn a language is to live in the society that speaks it. Also the quickest way. I totally envy europeans who live in tiny countries and get the chance to learn and more importantly, USE another language regularly.

As to whether it's a waste of money...yes, imo, here, it is.

Novocastrian

No, that's the second best way. Also the second quickest.

ExKiwilass

montreal mike

You ask a perfectly valid question.

No, you are not a troll. The question posed has been asked countless times before.

I figure if one lives in a totally English neighbourhood, and everyone around speaks the lingo, then it is legitimate to say 'why the hell bother'.

However, if one lives in an area, such as I do, where French is predominant, then it becomes a necessity, not a luxury, to be able to converse in French.

That is the short answer.

Now I could go on about the beauty of mastering a second language, access to French media, widening ones social circle and horizons, etc. but I am sure you know all that.



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dbd33

It comes out as van-soink lapoins, emphasizing the nasal characteristics of Quebec, or what they really seek to avoid, Ontario, French.

I don't think it's snobbism but clarity, the francophone student body in Toronto is largely African or Vietnamese, poor immigrants not much given to concerns over social status.

dbd33

Not an approach that makes sense in Toronto. The teachers are from Algeria, Vietnam, the Belgian Congo, all over the francophone world. The student body is more diverse.

montreal mike

well now i can see how 'van-soink lapoins,' makes the distinction

Souvenir

We have to make a distinction here between the international business world, where English is the principal language used, even in Quebec, and the world in which most people live on a day-to-day basis.

It is not uncommon for modern countries to have more than one official language. Switzerland, which has a population slightly greater than that of Quebec, has four. Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium................

One quarter of Canada's population has French as its mother tongue. A good one million of those people do not live in Quebec. Bilingualism is a big thing in Ottawa, sure. That is partly due to the federal government presence. It also reflects the fact that Ottawa is slap bang next to Quebec and closely integrated with it (Ottawa and Gatineau are now effectively one city, even in the census). A large proportion of Ontario around Ottawa is primarily francophone.

Removing the official status of French would be a tad difficult. I take it you're not a Canadian citizen? Try looking at the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Your assertion that French is a waste of time is not an unusual view but it is also not a correct one.

As for Quebec not being bilingual or translating anything, you're just plain wrong. I've never been to a restaurant in Quebec that didn't provide menus in both languages. Most big stores have signage in French and English. In some parts of Quebec where English predominates, French isn't used at all. There are western suburbs of Montreal where the road signs are only in English. Places near me, like Chelsea and Wakefield, display little French. You will find the same, in reverse, in much of eastern Ontario.

I have yet to come across a Quebec government department that doesn't have an English version of its website, or one that doesn't offer service in English over the phone. My tax return is in English, as are my will and POA.

flashman

It's a recognition of reality. Many areas of the US are bilingual because of the Mexican population but it's just not officially recognised.

macadian

Getting someone who can speak passable English has been problematic for me in the past when dealing with Revenue Canada...have even on occasion politely asked to speak with someone else who has a better command of the Language....