bats

Here's the situation.

A relative in England sent me a cheque for my birthday, lots of money in GBP which I paid into my Canadian account and spent the money. About four weeks later I see that some GBP money has been taken from the account. About $70 more than the cheque I'd paid in.

My bank told me that the writer of the cheque must have told her bank that the cheque had been lost or stolen and tough luck about losing the extra money but it was because of rate exchange rates.

I talk to my relative who insists she hadn't cancelled the cheque and she headed into the vivid ridden town to go to the bank. They tell her that the cheque was from a cheque book that she had received last year but she had told them she hadn't received it and so it was cancelled.

Phew.
​​​​​​i am annoyed, very annoyed, that neither bank thought to contact either of us about this. That surely the UK bank could see that the signature and writing were the usual..
How can they take money from your account without your approval? They accepted the cheque withiutowithout waiting for it to clear, don't they have some responsibility here?

Jerseygirl

Unfortunately paying in a foreign cheque into a bank account does usually come with a hefty fee. It would have been best for your relative to transfer the money.

Pulaski

It sounds like the money was taken back, and that is certainly possible if the sender/ sending back has declared the check was stolen, cancelled or lost, and with international checks it can be weeks or even months later when the money can be redebited (taken back out).

Under the terms of your account (certainly in the US, and I suspect in Canada), when you deposit a check you are vouching for the validity of the check, which is why (in the US) you are requried to sign the back of the checks that you deposit. IF they're no good, then the funds come right back out, and the account holder is SOL.

This is a common feature of Nigerian frauds - people receive a check, draw cash, and send it using Western Union as per the instructions they were given, and think that they have done very nicely netting say, $5,000 from a $7,000 check (maybe it's to pay for a car, which someone "is coming to collect"), but then the $7k check bounces and they are out the $2k they sent "back" via Western Union.

Oh, and it is a myth that banks check signatures, they don't now, and for most checks they haven't checked signatures for decades, unless perhaps they are for very large amounts. I doubt signatures have been checked since check processing was centralized*, and that must have been in the 1970's, or maybe earlier. Prior to that checks were sent back to the branch where the account was held, for the account to be debited, and at that time signatures might have been checked, maybe?

* Unless there was some other concern about the validity of the check i.e. there was a problem or concern with the check that was not the signature, then the signature would also be checked.

bats

The cheque wasn't cancelled after the event and I didn't sign it on the back, just paid it in. No Nigerians were involved! The UK bank say that she had used a cheque from a cheque book that she had reported, last year, as never having received it. I guess the machine that checks the numbers then flagged it up? I've no idea really.
So annoying that they can do all this without informing anyone.

bats

the fee isn't in question

Pulaski

I didn't say "after the event", and indeed reporting something as lost or stolen after the event (after the cheque was issued), could be construed as fraud. From the bank's point of view the cheque was already void when the cheque wa written, as it had been reported "lost" (gone missing somewhere) and flagged accordingly in the bank's systems. The bank had no way of knowing, unless the account holder had told them, that the checks had been found/ recovered and could now be honoured after all. So if anyone was guilty of "doing something without informing anyone", it was the account holder who issued a cheque that the bank had previously voided after it was reported missing.

Suppose that the book of cheques had actually been stolen, and then a check had been issued and deposited fraudulently, say, in Canada, and the check had been debited back to the account on which it was drawn. Wouldn't the account holder now be tearing their hair out, complaining that the bank had allowed a check to be processed that they (the bank) had already been notified had been lost/ misplaced/ stolen? Sometimes it seems as if banks are damned ether way.

In short, you should never use a check from a sequence that you have already notified the bank has been lost/ stolen.

scrubbedexpat091

As for fees for depositing foreign checks, I have never been charged any fees for ever doing so, sure the exchange is not great, but I don't consider a bank exchange rate a fee, but no bank I have ever used charged an actual fee for foreign checks.

Pulaski

Have you ever deposted a check from any further afield than across the US-Canadian border?

scrubbedexpat091

Just once, otherwise its always been US checks which are treated as foreign and do have the foreign hold placed on them, but maybe they don't charge fees for US$ based checks. I also tend to use the off brand no branch banks which have really less fees vs big banks even though these off brands are owned by a big bank lol

CanadaJimmy

Your relative was very irresponsible to report it lost/stolen then go on to write cheques with that book after it turned up. What else could the bank do? Now you’ve been punished with an NSF fee from their negligence. Not really much recourse.

If you go into your banks branch and talk to them, they may reverse the bounced cheque fee as a courtesy.

If you still have an open UK bank account just advise the relative just to deposit cash into that account at the bank with the account number.

bats

Yeah, I suppose I get that, that they were doing what they had to do. Technically correct. I'm surprised that there wasn't a clearing time on the cheque, didn't there used to be a three day clearance before the money was in your account? To me putting the money in my account means that they have accepted the cheque as good.
It was just a coincidence that I chose to check my account and saw what was happening, it could have been sometime otherwise. Notification by the bank would have been good customer service. Plus they told me that the person had cancelled the cheque in person that day which caused me to worry about why.
My conclusion is that they were technically correct but lousy customer service. Thank you for your comments which helped clarify things.

Not irresponsible, just forgetful. She still doesn't remember telling them the cheque book had never arrived.

Oh and one thing, on the bit of paper I got from the bank the account numbers for the cheque and the account that the money is said to have come from. Can there be another account number?

sharkus

I've had quite a few cheques from my parents in the UK, so they're UK pound cheques from their bank accounts. Varying amounts, small and large. They get deposited into my TD checking account, and so far I've never had any fees for depositing the cheque. The only limitation I've seen is a hold on the funds, which seems to be around 30 business days.

bats

If they had done that then none of this would have happened. My bank was TD too

sharkus

So they didn't put a hold on the cheque? If so that's really bad and if you have not done so, I'd have a little chat with them.

This might be of use: https://www.tdcanadatrust.com/document/PDF/520866.pdf

It mentions that for cheques from financial institutions outside of Canada the hold will be 30 business days, starting the day after the cheque is deposited.

scrubbedexpat091

If you have good account standing and long term relationship with the bank holds are often waived and they will "loan" you the money while the check clears but your still responsible for paying the bank back if the check is returned.

Thats been my experience with checks anyhow.