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WTF back in the UK

WTF back in the UK

Old Apr 4th 2018, 7:28 pm
  #751  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
I've been told that in France, when someone breaks into your house and the dog bites him, I'm in fault and will be prosecuted.... One thing for sure, I'm not stopping my dog !
Similar in the UK or at least it used to be...I think it depends on the police report. Once asked a police officer about it...’Let me put it this way love...it’s a lot easier for us to catch him if he’s got a dog hanging from his backside.’

I think the perp. could bring a private prosecution or sue.
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Old Apr 4th 2018, 7:52 pm
  #752  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Similar in the UK or at least it used to be...I think it depends on the police report. Once asked a police officer about it...’Let me put it this way love...it’s a lot easier for us to catch him if he’s got a dog hanging from his backside.’

I think the perp. could bring a private prosecution or sue.
When the police here was asked what one should do, he answered to go to the neighbors and wait for the police.
So I should grab the dog, put him on the leash, pas the bloke(s) on the way out politely saying ''excuse me please'' and go to the neighbors ... Yes, that 'll work
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 10:54 am
  #753  
 
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
Except the farmer dude committed murder and deserved everything he got. Long may shooting someone running away in the back, and then not seeking medical assistance be just that.
My kind of copper

The public is not allowed to decide who should live and who should die in the UK, and property is not more important than life. There are, however, provisions for cases of true self-defense which are investigated by police rather than just taking someone's word for it. Having lived in a shoot-on-sight country, I think it's a preferable system.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43652308


The man has now been bailed, pending further inquiries, so I expect any serious charges are unlikely.

Hither Green 'burglary death': Man, 78, bailed - BBC News

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Apr 5th 2018 at 10:58 am.
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 12:31 pm
  #754  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
I've been told that in France, when someone breaks into your house and the dog bites him, I'm in fault and will be prosecuted.... One thing for sure, I'm not stopping my dog !
Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Similar in the UK or at least it used to be...I think it depends on the police report. Once asked a police officer about it...’Let me put it this way love...it’s a lot easier for us to catch him if he’s got a dog hanging from his backside.’

I think the perp. could bring a private prosecution or sue.
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
When the police here was asked what one should do, he answered to go to the neighbors and wait for the police.
So I should grab the dog, put him on the leash, pas the bloke(s) on the way out politely saying ''excuse me please'' and go to the neighbors ... Yes, that 'll work
Annetje, do you not have insurance 'responsabilité civile'? That should take care of the dog situation, also the one where in an apartment you're taking a shower, the soap jumps out of your hands, goes out through the window lands in a neighbour's apartment, said neighbour slips on it, breaking a leg...

Or is that level of insurance only in Switzerland?
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 12:35 pm
  #755  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
My kind of copper

The public is not allowed to decide who should live and who should die in the UK, and property is not more important than life. There are, however, provisions for cases of true self-defense which are investigated by police rather than just taking someone's word for it. Having lived in a shoot-on-sight country, I think it's a preferable system.

What are your rights in tackling burglars? - BBC News


The man has now been bailed, pending further inquiries, so I expect any serious charges are unlikely.

Hither Green 'burglary death': Man, 78, bailed - BBC News
That seems to be a serious problem with this US "stand your ground" and "my home is my castle" business. The survivor can get away with murder. Surely it encourages US gun owners to use deadly force.
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 12:36 pm
  #756  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by BuckinghamshireBoy View Post
Annetje, do you not have insurance 'responsabilité civile'? That should take care of the dog situation, also the one where in an apartment you're taking a shower, the soap jumps out of your hands, goes out through the window lands in a neighbour's apartment, said neighbour slips on it, breaking a leg...

Or is that level of insurance only in Switzerland?
Insurance will not help if you are prosecuted...only if you are sued by the person the dog has attacked.
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
That seems to be a serious problem with this US "stand your ground" and "my home is my castle" business. The survivor can get away with murder. Surely it encourages US gun owners to use deadly force.
It does seem to be part and parcel of the culture where almost anyone case use deadly force if they see fit.

True story: My OH, when living in Oregon, was actually once advised by a law enforcement official to buy a "throw down" in addition to a weapon for himself. The idea was that if someone broke into OH's house, OH could then shoot him and "throw down" the other gun after puttng the intruder's prints on it so that when the police arrived he could say that he had to shoot him
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 2:18 pm
  #758  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Insurance will not help if you are prosecuted...only if you are sued by the person the dog has attacked.
Ok, but what if the dog 'attacked' - I prefer the term protected - on it's home turf? Could the owner be prosecuted in that case?

Understand that dangerous breeds out in public could - likely will - result in prosecution, just wondering how that affects the home is castle thing.
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 2:27 pm
  #759  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by BuckinghamshireBoy View Post
Ok, but what if the dog 'attacked' - I prefer the term protected - on it's home turf? Could the owner be prosecuted in that case?

Understand that dangerous breeds out in public could - likely will - result in prosecution, just wondering how that affects the home is castle thing.
AFAIK if the intruder was a small person who hadn’t threatened you or was leaving your property and you allowed or instructed your pit bull/rottie etc to attack...then yes the police could prosecute. It depends on the circumstances and I suppose the attitude of the officers.
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Old Apr 5th 2018, 4:55 pm
  #760  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by BuckinghamshireBoy View Post
Ok, but what if the dog 'attacked' - I prefer the term protected - on it's home turf? Could the owner be prosecuted in that case?

Understand that dangerous breeds out in public could - likely will - result in prosecution, just wondering how that affects the home is castle thing.
There is a general "duty of care" under English law whereby property owners are responsible for the safety of persons on their property, even if they're there illegally. The extent of that duty will depend on the circumstances, but it is the starting point.
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Old Apr 6th 2018, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by chawkins99 View Post
Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested - BBC News

So, which side of the fence do you come down on with this?

A 78 year-old arrested for murdering a burglar (armed with a screwdriver) in his own home.
Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
BBC article doesn't have many details, but on the face of it, it sounds like the killing was self defence, since the intruder was armed. I assume he won't be charged with murder. So why don't we wait to see if he is, in fact, charged?
And, indeed, there you go. Released without charge.

Hither Green 'burglary death' suspect to face no action - BBC News

Have any of the screamingly indigant headlines been withdrawn?
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Old Apr 6th 2018, 8:30 pm
  #762  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And, indeed, there you go. Released without charge.

Hither Green 'burglary death' suspect to face no action - BBC News

Have any of the screamingly indigant headlines been withdrawn?
Don't often see retractions published, unless there's a potential libel case waiting in the wings.
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Old Apr 6th 2018, 8:30 pm
  #763  
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And, indeed, there you go. Released without charge.

Hither Green 'burglary death' suspect to face no action - BBC News

Have any of the screamingly indigant headlines been withdrawn?
Yeah ... It's interesting (depressing) that chawkins assumed it was a "which side of the fence" situation. Sign of the times, everything has to be seen through a polarised, politicised lens. It's as if facts, and legal process, do not exist anymore.
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Old Apr 6th 2018, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Yeah ... It's interesting (depressing) that chawkins assumed it was a "which side of the fence" situation. Sign of the times, everything has to be seen through a polarised, politicised lens. It's as if facts, and legal process, do not exist anymore.
It is. We all have to be in these obnoxious clubs apparently. It's like my old school playground all over again.

And yet, here we are with the situation resolved along the lines of decency, common sense and investigation without granting some sort of umbrella right to kill people because they are on your property or advocating for having everyone be armed to the teeth all the time "in case something happens".

Just normal behaviour, in fact.
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Yeah ... It's interesting (depressing) that chawkins assumed it was a "which side of the fence" situation. Sign of the times, everything has to be seen through a polarised, politicised lens. It's as if facts, and legal process, do not exist anymore.
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It is. We all have to be in these obnoxious clubs apparently. It's like my old school playground all over again.

And yet, here we are with the situation resolved along the lines of decency, common sense and investigation without granting some sort of umbrella right to kill people because they are on your property or advocating for having everyone be armed to the teeth all the time "in case something happens".

Just normal behaviour, in fact.
But why did they arrest him and lock him up in the first place while they investigated?

I never expected him to be convicted (certainly not of murder). A 78 year-old defending his home is not a flight risk and not a danger to the general public. He was defending himself and his property against an armed assailant.

They could have just let him stay home and arrested him later if they found cause.

Now, he has an arrest on his record. As we all know on these boards, that will make it more difficult to travel to the US and other countries. He's now ineligible for VWP due to an arrest.

The UK police simply did not need to arrest him.
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