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caretaker Apr 25th 2020 1:21 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by el collado kid (Post 12843972)
hay Eric you make me sound impotent:eek:.I have been called many things in my life mostly anglosaxon ones.I am sure someone will be along soon and have a choice word to call me.

You are important!, and if they ever start asking doctor questions on trivia you'll be winning all the time.

Sugarmooma Apr 25th 2020 1:27 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12843775)

You need to Weasel your way out of that one buddy!

Lion in Winter Apr 25th 2020 1:32 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by el collado kid (Post 12843972)
hay Eric you make me sound impotent :eek:.I have been called many things in my life mostly anglosaxon ones.I am sure someone will be along soon and have a choice word to call me.


Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12844041)
You are important!, and if they ever start asking doctor questions on trivia you'll be winning all the time.

Ah, that clears things up a bit. I was worried there for a minute.

el collado kid Apr 28th 2020 11:59 am

Re: WORDS
 
Dystopia.there is a word that maybe could be used to describe our life styles at the moment and the actions of governments good or bad?Could be wrong

Pulaski May 1st 2020 5:01 pm

Re: WORDS
 
YouTube offered me a video yesterday on some aspects of English that reflect distant echos of Middle and Old English, and one of the words covered was the origins of the word "nickname" .... which came from an archaic and long lost word "och" or "eek" meaning "other" or "additional", so if someone had another name, apart from their official given name, it was "an eek name". Eek started out pronounced with a long ee vowel sound, but the great vowel shift (change in how English was pronounced primarily between 1400 and 1700) caused it to become a short e, or rather an "i", but along the way the usage of eek died out entirely, except in the context of an eek name. And then common usage, and that people forgot about eek entirely, took care of the rest, and "an eek name" became "a nickname". :)

Here's the video if you're interested.

macliam May 1st 2020 6:36 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12846863)
And then common usage, and that people forgot about eek entirely, took care of the rest, and "an eek name" became "a nickname". :)

Like a norange (from naranja) became an orange....... .

Some words changed meaning: Sylly meant Holy, Nyce meant Foolish, Gentle meant Noble, Stout meant Dependable.

And in some dialects, old forms and meanings continue - as in West Country "Thee Bist" for "you are" in the singular.

BristolUK May 1st 2020 6:38 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12846902)
Like a norange (from naranja) became an orange....... .

Just like Smeggs.

I got smeggs from the grocery store. :nod:

Pulaski May 1st 2020 6:44 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12846902)
Like a norange (from naranja) became an orange....... .

Some words changed meaning: Sylly meant Holy, Nyce meant Foolish, Gentle meant Noble, Stout meant Dependable.

And in some dialects, old forms and meanings continue - as in West Country "Thee Bist" for "you are" in the singular.

Bist is in the linked video, or another by the same guy.

And Yorkshire still retains second person singular - thy and thine, long since lost across the rest of the English-speaking world.

BEVS May 2nd 2020 3:59 am

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by el collado kid (Post 12845346)
Dystopia.there is a word that maybe could be used to describe our life styles at the moment and the actions of governments good or bad?Could be wrong

Yes

I had a really good word that I had never come across before , ever , and now I've forgotten it & although it hovers on the edge of my conciousness I cannot bring it to mind at all.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...cdc60f2203.jpg


macliam May 2nd 2020 9:34 am

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12846909)
Bist is in the linked video, or another by the same guy.

And Yorkshire still retains second person singular - thy and thine, long since lost across the rest of the English-speaking world.

Too much reading and not enough experience by the young man.... though he's on the right track.;)

His claim for "C19th Devonian" is true of all the West - and for East Anglia, where in Suffolk people still say "I've gone down town Tuesday" as opposed to "I went to town on Tuesday". His claim for "bist" again casts doubt on his breadth of knowledge as it was still commonly used in 1970s Bath and the West (generally) - it's bist, but pronounced more biss (I use the double S used to replicate the hard S in bis as opposed to the slender S in hasn't)....... biss't is the interrogative of thee biss...... but more often said as bis'ee. (confused yet?) As for Thy and Thine, in the West it was thee (or 'ee) as both the pronoun and the possessive, as in "ass't got thee daps on 'ee?" (Have you got your Plimsolls with you?) ... which also gives the West verbal interrrogatives "Cass't" (can you) - "Casn't" (can't you); "Coosst" ("cus't"... could you) - "Coosn't" ("cusn't.... couldn't you); "Hass't" (have you) - "Hasn't" (haven't you); "Biss't" (are you) - "Bissn't" (aren't you).... although as said above, common usage would be "Biss'ee" and sometimes "Bisn't 'ee" (although that was rare) or "Bain't" (see below).

Elsewhere in his videos he muses on the influence on American accents and people point to the Scots, Ulster-Scots and Irish immigrant influences..... but the first Pilgrims spoke with a rural accent/dialect, close to the West or East Anglian today and after the Monmouth rebellion in 1685 some 800 people were transported to the Americas from the West Country followed by thousands of others until Australia became the favoured penal colony. As can be heard on TV, the West Country/Bristolian accent is particularly strong and difficult to remove completely (I know!). I was happy to escape the nasal Limerick accent, but yearned for the educated hiberno-english accent of my teachers.... a forlorn hope with my shannonside/bathonian mix.

My sister has a large coloured cartoon of my Da, drawn by a west-country artist in the early 50's when he was still "on his tools" as a spark. In it, my Da holds a mangled piece of conduit and says to his "helper", slouched against the wall, "Aw, Jimmy, look what ye've done to this pipe, ye spalpeen!" (I never recall my Da speaking quite like that, but allow for artistic license). Jimmy, from Peasedown St.John, outside Bath says "That bain't nothing, son, not round yere, leastways". A little mouse, the artists "mascot" says "' 'ands outta pockets, Jim!". It's the one serious argument we're going to have about inheritances!

macliam May 2nd 2020 9:38 am

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by BEVS (Post 12847099)
Yes

I had a really good word that I had never come across before , ever , and now I've forgotten it & although it hovers on the edge of my conciousness I cannot bring it to mind at all.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...cdc60f2203.jpg

That happens - more and more these days.....:unsure:

Oakvillian May 4th 2020 6:34 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12847190)
[...] As for Thy and Thine, in the West it was thee (or 'ee) as both the pronoun and the possessive, as in "ass't got thee daps on 'ee?" (Have you got your Plimsolls with you?) ... which also gives the West verbal interrrogatives "Cass't" (can you) - "Casn't" (can't you); "Coosst" ("cus't"... could you) - "Coosn't" ("cusn't.... couldn't you); "Hass't" (have you) - "Hasn't" (haven't you); "Biss't" (are you) - "Bissn't" (aren't you).... although as said above, common usage would be "Biss'ee" and sometimes "Bisn't 'ee" (although that was rare) or "Bain't" [...]

The old second-person inflections and contractions thereof lead to some lovely collections of consonants. Eldest child has been looking at Macbeth for his English class during isolation. The Thane himself, on being interrupted mid-rant by the servant announcing the presence of a large army approaching, lets fly with
The devil damn thee black, thou cream-faced loon!
Where got’st thou that goose look?
"Got'st" is one I don't remember from my youth. I was probably more caught up with all imagery of the terrified boy being white with fear (after cream-faced, the same passage has Macbeth insulting the servant as lily-livered, linen-cheeked, whey-faced). And presumably if I had noticed it, I'd have been keen to use it to combat my teacher's insistence that in composition we should avoid "simple" verbs like went, got, said, put, in favour of more colourfully descriptive words. Bah, if Shakespeare can pull "got'st" from a king's mouth, all bets are off...

Lion in Winter May 4th 2020 8:30 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 12848248)
The old second-person inflections and contractions thereof lead to some lovely collections of consonants. Eldest child has been looking at Macbeth for his English class during isolation. The Thane himself, on being interrupted mid-rant by the servant announcing the presence of a large army approaching, lets fly with
The devil damn thee black, thou cream-faced loon!
Where got’st thou that goose look?
"Got'st" is one I don't remember from my youth. I was probably more caught up with all imagery of the terrified boy being white with fear (after cream-faced, the same passage has Macbeth insulting the servant as lily-livered, linen-cheeked, whey-faced). And presumably if I had noticed it, I'd have been keen to use it to combat my teacher's insistence that in composition we should avoid "simple" verbs like went, got, said, put, in favour of more colourfully descriptive words. Bah, if Shakespeare can pull "got'st" from a king's mouth, all bets are off...


Couldst, shouldst, wouldst. All fine words. Or, in some cases, couldft, shouldft, wouldft since if I remember correctly the f was used instead of the s if the placement of the letter was in the middle of the word.

Oakvillian May 4th 2020 9:05 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12848295)
Couldst, shouldst, wouldst. All fine words. Or, in some cases, couldft, shouldft, wouldft since if I remember correctly the f was used instead of the s if the placement of the letter was in the middle of the word.

not an f, but ſ, a "long s," an old-fashioned way of writing a lower case s - in blackletter type and some handwriting the ascender is crossed, but only on the left side. It's the same letter form that makes the first half of the German Eszett (ß). In old English typography, the long-s would never be doubled and never be used as the last letter of a word; a double s would usually be long-s short-s, so (if BE renders the glyphs properly) sinfulness would look like ſinfulneſs. You can see that that terminal double consonant ſs looks a bit like the ß, with a bit of imagination!

ETA: of course, Wikipedia has an article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s

Lion in Winter May 4th 2020 9:09 pm

Re: WORDS
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 12848317)
not an f, but ſ, a "long s," an old-fashioned way of writing a lower case s - in blackletter type and some handwriting the ascender is crossed, but only on the left side. It's the same letter form that makes the first half of the German Eszett (ß). In old English typography, the long-s would never be doubled and never be used as the last letter of a word; a double s would usually be long-s short-s, so (if BE renders the glyphs properly) sinfulness would look like ſinfulneſs. You can see that that terminal double consonant ſs looks a bit like the ß, with a bit of imagination!

ETA: of course, Wikipedia has an article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s

You can see why they gave it up.

Is this in any way connected with those names that start with a double F?

I once met a Mexican consul whose last name was Ffrench.


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