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Windrush

Windrush

Old Apr 28th 2018, 11:04 am
  #1  
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Default Windrush

I know my views on the Maybot's wee experiment on what she thought she could get away with but I'd be keen to hear expats views on the 'hostile environment' she wanted to engender.
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Old Apr 28th 2018, 9:41 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by Princess_Buttercup View Post
I know my views on the Maybot's wee experiment on what she thought she could get away with but I'd be keen to hear expats views on the 'hostile environment' she wanted to engender.
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Old Apr 28th 2018, 10:10 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

For a country expressing such frequent concerns the UK has a surprisingly poor record on retaining and maintaining immigration records. The onus is the governments to show African-Caribbean immigrants reside illegally in the UK.
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Old Apr 28th 2018, 10:53 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

This would attract more expat /immigrant comments if it were in The Lounge where more people hang out, rather than the Sheepdip backwater.
You might find a better conversation.

Would you like it moved there? No worries if not. Just a thought.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 1:15 am
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Default Re: Windrush

this seems more like it should be in the Open to All section of BE so going to move into Lounge to open it up to more members to discuss.

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Old Apr 29th 2018, 3:23 am
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by Princess_Buttercup View Post
I know my views on the Maybot's wee experiment on what she thought she could get away with but I'd be keen to hear expats views on the 'hostile environment' she wanted to engender.
Interesting that you chose to raise this originally in the NZ forum where we don't exactly have a good track record of treating immigrants nicely. I guess the 'hostile environment' was at least not on the level of the random dawn raids that occurred in NZ where anyone who was remotely Polynesian looking stood to have their home raided at random or were stopped in the street and asked for proof of residency.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 10:56 am
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Default Re: Windrush

Mods: I don't mind if you move it.

Bojangles - I really have only commented in the NZ forum so I posted here. Also it is actually on the same scale as the Dawn raids in the 1970s (except this is 2018) you currently cannot get a job, benefits, use the NHS or any other service without proof of right to residency. They literally got people sacked, left homeless and then proceeded to jail them and then remove them to countries where they'd not lived in 40, 50, 60 years and in a lot of cases had no memories or family or social networks to go back to. These are literally British Citizens not immigrants who are being still in 2018 denied their legal rights. They're not illegal in any sense of the word, they're not criminals. They've worked, paid taxes, paid NI, just normal every day people. The government destroyed their entry documents, went show us evidence you entered when you said you did - oh wait you can't sorry you need to leave. They need four pieces of evidence for every year they've lived in the UK - think about that 40-60 years of evidence at the drop of a hat? May and Rudd knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyway and the only reason they're trying to back track now is they're being called on it.

Last edited by Princess_Buttercup; Apr 29th 2018 at 11:01 am.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 11:14 am
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by Princess_Buttercup View Post
Mods: I don't mind if you move it.

Also it is actually on the same scale as the Dawn raids in the 1970s (except this is 2018)
No, nothing like it at all.

you currently cannot get a job, benefits, use the NHS or any other service without proof of right to residency.
This is different to NZ and most other countries in 2018, how? If you go to the hospital or sign up with a bank or Doctor in NZ you have to take your passport. If you want a job you have to have an appropriate visa and show your passport.

Only certain people who have been resident in NZ for more than two years are entitled to benefits.

It hardly constitutes a 'hostile environment' and I don't understand why you would expect it to be any other way.

They literally got people sacked, left homeless and then proceeded to jail them and then remove them to countries where they'd not lived in 40, 50, 60 years and in a lot of cases had no memories or family or social networks to go back to.
Australia is doing this too and shipping out a lot of crims and undesirables back to NZ.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 12:42 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by Princess_Buttercup View Post
Mods: I don't mind if you move it.

Bojangles - I really have only commented in the NZ forum so I posted here. Also it is actually on the same scale as the Dawn raids in the 1970s (except this is 2018) you currently cannot get a job, benefits, use the NHS or any other service without proof of right to residency. They literally got people sacked, left homeless and then proceeded to jail them and then remove them to countries where they'd not lived in 40, 50, 60 years and in a lot of cases had no memories or family or social networks to go back to. These are literally British Citizens not immigrants who are being still in 2018 denied their legal rights. They're not illegal in any sense of the word, they're not criminals. They've worked, paid taxes, paid NI, just normal every day people. The government destroyed their entry documents, went show us evidence you entered when you said you did - oh wait you can't sorry you need to leave. They need four pieces of evidence for every year they've lived in the UK - think about that 40-60 years of evidence at the drop of a hat? May and Rudd knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyway and the only reason they're trying to back track now is they're being called on it.
Except they are not British citizens; that is the problem. If they were then there would be no question of their status and they would simply have been able to apply for a British passport to prove it. They are citizens of their respective Commonwealth countries who were granted blanket Indefinite Leave to Remain in the Immigration Act 1971. 9 out of 10 of the 'Windrush' generation (Commonwealth citizens who emigrated to the UK between 1948 and 1973) obtained British citizenship decades ago. An even smaller percentage haven't got current paperwork confirming their status. Most of those affected arrived as children from the Caribbean, usually on their parents' passports, and have never left the UK. As such they have never had a passport of their own and often have no evidence that they arrived as and when they claim and subsequently have had difficulty providing sufficient evidence of their 40+ years of residence.

It was a predictable result of the last few rounds of legalisation but there's no conspiracy. The Home Office was simply applying the current rules as voted for Parliament - as anyone who has tried to rent a property or start a new job in the UK recently without a passport can attest to - and the government simply didn't reckon on such a public outcry.

Landing cards may help establish the date of their arrival, i.e. before 1973, but it won't help them confirm that they have maintained their status by not spending longer than two years outside the UK since 1973. The decision taken to destroy them was made under a Labour government in any case. The 'hostile environment' policy started under the Major government and has been incrementally developed by successive blue and red governments. May merely gave it publicity courtesy of the rather pointless 'Go Home' vans.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 1:00 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
... but there's no conspiracy.
Just the usual incompetence then?
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 1:03 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by BuckinghamshireBoy View Post
Just the usual incompetence then?
It's the Home Office; it's always lurching from one crisis to another. The interesting thing about this saga is that it has been a little too efficient. Normally it's being pilloried for not doing enough to deport undocumented migrants; now it's being condemned for trying to do just that.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 1:11 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

... the government simply didn't reckon on such a public outcry.

They just thought they could quietly rob people of their legal rights. Incompetence is a hallmark of the May government, but this isn't incompetence it is wilful targeting of groups of people through their hostile environment policies.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 1:13 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles View Post
This is different to NZ and most other countries in 2018, how? If you go to the hospital or sign up with a bank or Doctor in NZ you have to take your passport. If you want a job you have to have an appropriate visa and show your passport. ..
I think it's different because they've been qualifying for all that for decades without those things.
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by Princess_Buttercup View Post
... the government simply didn't reckon on such a public outcry.

They just thought they could quietly rob people of their legal rights. Incompetence is a hallmark of the May government, but this isn't incompetence it is wilful targeting of groups of people through their hostile environment policies.
Except the conspiracy theory doesn't bear any closer examination. Why risk a political scandal for the sake of deporting a few elderly Jamaicans who are here legally when there's a million plus illegal immigrants in the UK? They were simply expected to provide or obtain evidence of their right to be in the UK like everyone else. Unlike everyone else they didn't have any documentation that enabled them to that. A simple policy addendum specifically tailored to that particular scenario would have solved the problem before it started but this is the Home Office. Nuance is not its speciality.

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I think it's different because they've been qualifying for all that for decades without those things.
As have we all but the policy applies to everyone. I'm a British citizen, born in the UK to British-born parents, but I still need to show proof of my right to work when starting a new job; when renting a flat, opening a bank account, etc.. as does my Australian partner. I show my British passport; she shows her BRP. Why should it be different for anyone else?
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Old Apr 29th 2018, 1:53 pm
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Default Re: Windrush

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
...Why should it be different for anyone else?
I didn't suggest it should be. Bojangles was asking how it was different to other people in other countries who routinely had to show the relevant paperwork. It's different because these people never had to for decades, just as other folk in the UK never had to.

There was no distinction. Had there been such a distinction and documents were required of everyone all those years ago, they'd have known what was needed years ago and had the opportunity to have done something about it years ago with fewer of the difficulties faced now.
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