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The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Old Nov 30th 2019, 9:57 am
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Default The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

This is a great article, prompted by a man on a British TV political debate who said he earned 80,000 pounds a year, but did not feel he was rich. It prompted an avalanche of outrage on social media. This article actually agrees with him, and I do as well. I know what it was like to be on a low wage .and I know what it was like to have a very high earning OH (at one time) Its all the hidden costs ,tax's and benefits that nobody takes into account. Plus the fact that those of us in the middle tend to be the ones paying the most.one way or another .. what do you think ? ( I purposely avoided TIO so no arguing please )

https://on.ft.com/35OkfHm
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 10:36 am
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Smile Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
This is a great article, prompted by a man on a British TV political debate who said he earned 80,000 pounds a year, but did not feel he was rich. It prompted an avalanche of outrage on social media. This article actually agrees with him, and I do as well. I know what it was like to be on a low wage .and I know what it was like to have a very high earning OH (at one time) Its all the hidden costs ,tax's and benefits that nobody takes into account. Plus the fact that those of us in the middle tend to be the ones paying the most.one way or another .. what do you think ? ( I purposely avoided TIO so no arguing please )

https://on.ft.com/35OkfHm
I used to think you judge being rich by the money you earned and invested to make more money buying selling property to make more money.I like to think my wife i were top earners and were good at it if i say so myself.big house cars kids lot's of travels.But if i'm really honest they were some of the most unhappy time's in my live how my wife stayed with me i don't know.I retired at 50 moved to spain 4 years ago.Now i'm rich, but in life and living and being in a great place.Don't get me wrong money is great to have but some time's the price we pay to get it can be high.The biggest thing money does is give you more freedom and choice it does not always bring you happiness To get through all of our life's is a big hard long journey and to get through it enjoying yourself and happy then you are truly wealthy, money is not all it's cracked up to be
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 11:21 am
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Unfortunately, I can't access the article. I saw that guy on QT and thought he was a fool to argue black and blue against the fact that 80K puts him in the top 5% income bracket. Of course that's different from being wealthy, but at the same time it highlights how many are on much lower incomes.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 11:40 am
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Originally Posted by Shard;12771741[b
]Unfortunately, I can't access the article.[/b] I saw that guy on QT and thought he was a fool to argue black and blue against the fact that 80K puts him in the top 5% income bracket. Of course that's different from being wealthy, but at the same time it highlights how many are on much lower incomes.
Nor can I. I expect you have to be rich before you can access FT.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 12:25 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

There is no point clicking on the link unless you subscribe to the Financial Times.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 1:20 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

I put "soaking the rich - financial times" into Google & managed to read the article.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 5:59 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

So when you do get access to it, you'll see that it first says 80k plus puts you in the top 5% and then goes on to claim that the top quintile averages 88k. Surely shome mishtake?

Anyway, that little gripe aside, I have another about the rather lurid headline including the phrase "soak the rich". What's actually being talked about is taxing that portion of income above 80k at an extra 5% on the current rate and a further 5% on anything above 125k, as opposed to there being a 100k gap between 50k and 150k with no step in the rate as at present.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 6:27 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
I put "soaking the rich - financial times" into Google & managed to read the article.
I got a single link to New Statesman from that but soak the rich gave me the FT article.
Hoo boy.
In fact, his take home earnings are not as much higher than the average as a first glance suggests. The top quintile of earners in the UK are on an average of about £88,000. The bottom quintile are on more like £7,900. Add in tax and benefits, and those numbers fall to about £65,500 and rise to £19,000. That means the top fifth take home, on average, 3.4 times as much as the bottom fifth. That’s significant, but much less significant than the 11-fold difference in pre-tax pay.
"Not as much higher." Really? Certainly not as high as 11 times, but 3 to 4 times is still a huge difference. There was a comment elsewhere on BE in the last day or so about how wealthy people think their wealth is the norm. How on earth is 3 to 4 times what the greater number of people get not much higher?
It’s also worth noting that many of those in the bottom quintile are working part time...
Without explicitly saying so, this suggests it's a choice rather than circumstances preventing more or job availability often only being part time.
while many of those at the top are salaried and work much longer hours.
Salaried as opposed to zero hours contracts. Jesus wept.
That aside, there's a lot of generalisation in those two lines. I'm reminded of a world in action or panorama programme many years ago where a businessman was claiming to work a high number of hours and we discovered that he was counting the time reading documents as his chauffeur drove him to work; sitting listening to one of his staff making a presentation to prospective clients; an informal 'working' breakfast; taking clients to lunch or out on the golf course etc.

Well how about the rest of us? The writer probably thinks everyone who does 9 to 5 just switches off. What if I've had a particularly difficult client who is returning the next day? I may sit at home and think how to better deal with them. Or seek some advice from a friend with a similar experience. Maybe I've got someone coming in with very individual needs requiring some research on my part, but I've not had the time for that in my working day (because there was no spare time built into it) so I do that research at home. Perhaps there's a staff problem and I meet a former colleague over breakfast to see how they dealt with something similar previously. Maybe I've a letter to write and outside of my regular hours I am writing a draft in my head of certain phrases to use.

There are any number of things I've experienced 'out of hours' that would exactly equate with what this guy includes as his hours but his count and others apparently don't.

There's something else I just remembered which some Brits will have experience or knowledge of. A few years ago a minimum income threshold was needed for Brits returning to the UK with a non EU spouse. If memory serves it was £18500. Lots of people claimed it wasn't a high amount - they'd be the ones having no difficulty earning more. Yet at the time this figure was set, 40% of UK workers were earning less.

It's actually quite hard not to get really angry about it.

Last edited by BristolUK; Nov 30th 2019 at 6:29 pm.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 7:26 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

And just because one isn't salary is hourly no way means short hours, I know more then 1 person who does long days and is hourly, but some reason some people look down on hourly workers as not doing as much work even though the hourly may end up doing more work and a good chance its difficult, physical work.

Our standard shift at the airport was 10 to 12 hours, and many worked upwards of 16-20 hour days, and this was the norm, not many of us did 8 hour straight shift and went home, but 8 hours out in the weather, doing quick, physical work isn't exactly easy.

My mom was a paramedic in the US for 20 years almost, she was hourly and not high paid, when she left was just around $20 US$ per hour, and often that work came home with her, especially after losing a patient or if the patient was very young, she might have been hourly but wasn't exactly putting in short easy days and not thinking of work when at home.


Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I got a single link to New Statesman from that but soak the rich gave me the FT article.
Hoo boy.

"Not as much higher." Really? Certainly not as high as 11 times, but 3 to 4 times is still a huge difference. There was a comment elsewhere on BE in the last day or so about how wealthy people think their wealth is the norm. How on earth is 3 to 4 times what the greater number of people get not much higher?

Without explicitly saying so, this suggests it's a choice rather than circumstances preventing more or job availability often only being part time.

Salaried as opposed to zero hours contracts. Jesus wept.
That aside, there's a lot of generalisation in those two lines. I'm reminded of a world in action or panorama programme many years ago where a businessman was claiming to work a high number of hours and we discovered that he was counting the time reading documents as his chauffeur drove him to work; sitting listening to one of his staff making a presentation to prospective clients; an informal 'working' breakfast; taking clients to lunch or out on the golf course etc.

Well how about the rest of us? The writer probably thinks everyone who does 9 to 5 just switches off. What if I've had a particularly difficult client who is returning the next day? I may sit at home and think how to better deal with them. Or seek some advice from a friend with a similar experience. Maybe I've got someone coming in with very individual needs requiring some research on my part, but I've not had the time for that in my working day (because there was no spare time built into it) so I do that research at home. Perhaps there's a staff problem and I meet a former colleague over breakfast to see how they dealt with something similar previously. Maybe I've a letter to write and outside of my regular hours I am writing a draft in my head of certain phrases to use.

There are any number of things I've experienced 'out of hours' that would exactly equate with what this guy includes as his hours but his count and others apparently don't.

There's something else I just remembered which some Brits will have experience or knowledge of. A few years ago a minimum income threshold was needed for Brits returning to the UK with a non EU spouse. If memory serves it was £18500. Lots of people claimed it wasn't a high amount - they'd be the ones having no difficulty earning more. Yet at the time this figure was set, 40% of UK workers were earning less.

It's actually quite hard not to get really angry about it.

Last edited by Jsmth321; Nov 30th 2019 at 7:29 pm.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 8:40 pm
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 9:43 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
And just because one isn't salary is hourly no way means short hours, I know more then 1 person who does long days and is hourly, but some reason some people look down on hourly workers as not doing as much work even though the hourly may end up doing more work and a good chance its difficult, physical work.

Our standard shift at the airport was 10 to 12 hours, and many worked upwards of 16-20 hour days, and this was the norm, not many of us did 8 hour straight shift and went home, but 8 hours out in the weather, doing quick, physical work isn't exactly easy.

My mom was a paramedic in the US for 20 years almost, she was hourly and not high paid, when she left was just around $20 US$ per hour, and often that work came home with her, especially after losing a patient or if the patient was very young, she might have been hourly but wasn't exactly putting in short easy days and not thinking of work when at home.
And the uncertainty of hourly work is another factor, for those on contracts. My son had a summer job in the retail food industry. His "contract" was 10 hours a week minimum, at minimum wage for his age (19 at the time). 10 hours was obviously not enough to pay his rent and other expenses. As it turned out, they were short-staffed so he ended up working 10-12 hour shifts four to five days a week, and a shorter shift sometimes as well on his "off" day. So he made decent money in total for someone of his age and experience, and got holiday pay, but he was at their beck and call, never knowing when he would be called in or for how long. He was a student with a summer job (he had to give it up for term time due to the insane hours) so not a huge deal but for an adult with family responsibilities that would have been very difficult.
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 9:54 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
There is no point clicking on the link unless you subscribe to the Financial Times.

Sorry its not coming up ... sometimes it does... other times not. bah
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 11:54 pm
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Sorry its not coming up ... sometimes it does... other times not. bah
This one (link different to yours) worked for me.
https://www.ft.com/content/2e8c3048-...6-62bf4f9e548a

Okay, clicking on it now doesn't work (perhaps because it knows I already looked). But what has worked every time for me was googling exactly like this
"soak the rich" "financial times" and then clicking on the link that looks like this https://www.ft.com › content
Note that clicking on this new link (in this post) doesn't work either. It has to be the search to get it.

For good measure, I just repeated the "soak the rich" "financial times" search, and it worked yet again.

Last edited by BristolUK; Dec 1st 2019 at 12:02 am.
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Old Dec 1st 2019, 12:05 am
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Very true. I've never had a job that guaranteed hours, it was always something along lines of your hired at $13.50 per hour and will receive up to 40 hours per week at the discretion of the company or something like that.

When I was in my late teens I had a job that had on call days, I hated them, would be on call from like 9am to 3pm and if called in needed to report to work within 90 minutes, in winter my entire schedule could be that way.

I had an interview semi-recently and all they could say about schedule is anywhere from 0 to 40 hours per week.

A lot of professional jobs are paid hourly as well, nurses for example and seem casual employment is popular with healthcare employers.



Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And the uncertainty of hourly work is another factor, for those on contracts. My son had a summer job in the retail food industry. His "contract" was 10 hours a week minimum, at minimum wage for his age (19 at the time). 10 hours was obviously not enough to pay his rent and other expenses. As it turned out, they were short-staffed so he ended up working 10-12 hour shifts four to five days a week, and a shorter shift sometimes as well on his "off" day. So he made decent money in total for someone of his age and experience, and got holiday pay, but he was at their beck and call, never knowing when he would be called in or for how long. He was a student with a summer job (he had to give it up for term time due to the insane hours) so not a huge deal but for an adult with family responsibilities that would have been very difficult.

Last edited by Jsmth321; Dec 1st 2019 at 12:07 am.
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Old Dec 1st 2019, 10:25 am
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Default Re: The truth about the supposed 'rich' amongst us

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
So when you do get access to it, you'll see that it first says 80k plus puts you in the top 5% and then goes on to claim that the top quintile averages 88k. Surely shome mishtake?

Anyway, that little gripe aside, I have another about the rather lurid headline including the phrase "soak the rich". What's actually being talked about is taxing that portion of income above 80k at an extra 5% on the current rate and a further 5% on anything above 125k, as opposed to there being a 100k gap between 50k and 150k with no step in the rate as at present.
RE - Assuming that I have read your post correctly, there is a step up between 50 & 150k - at 100k you lose your personal tax allowance.
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