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Republican Debate

Republican Debate

Old Sep 8th 2011, 2:07 am
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Default Republican Debate

Pretty decent debate. Anyone watch/watching?

At the moment Mitt Romney is completely kicking Rick Perry's ass out of the building. It's a surprising performance from both of them. It really makes me wonder why Perry got such props these last few weeks. Huntsman is doing very well too. The rest - meh.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 2:42 am
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Default Re: Republican Debate

I disagree. They talk about everything in general terms and have no substance. They want to cut the budget but complain that the government is not sending more troops to protect the Mexican border or that Obama is putting America at risk by pulling out troops.

They don't like Obamacare but don't have any solution except what has been done for the last 40 years. They claim that they want to kill Obamacare because of the mandate but in reality they like the fact that the health care industry will profit heavily if Obamacare is killed due to the fact that large government subsidies will continue for the medicare advantage program and cuts to hospitals will not occur. All of that will occur, medicare will go bankrupt much earlier, and seniors will pay a higher premium if Obamacare is killed.

They pretend that they are not going to destroy medicare and social security but instead save it by cutting the funding of it by massive amounts.

They talk about jobs but don't have any solution other than more tax cuts for millionaires and corporations and deregulation so that corporations can again run amuck.

And on and on.

They seem to be pulling a Reagan and Bush Jr. again by talking down big government but once they get into power, they spend money like it is unlimited on their favorite projects and cut taxes creating large deficits.

I will have to admit that Huntsman seemed to be the most sensible and understands the complexity of running a government. However he doesn't have a chance in hell of winning the republican nomination.

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Old Sep 8th 2011, 3:07 am
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I disagree.

I will have to admit that Huntsman seemed to be the most sensible and understands the complexity of running a government. However he doesn't have a chance in hell of winning the republican nomination.
Well you'll be happy then that even a lot of the Repub talking heads are gushing about Huntsman and Romney.

I must say I wasn't expecting a Fox contributor to say that Perry's performance was very "Palin Meets Couric." Ouch! He completely ballsed that up though. I'm pretty sure Bachmann's offhand "immigrants have diseases" line will get her some unwanted attention tomorrow. Cain is hilariously shit. Santorum is desperate not to appear the bigot he is. Newt doesn't want to be President - he wants to say funny things instead. Ron Paul has some very good ideas (theory - not practice) but sounds mental when he talks. The "look out people - a national border fence is to keep YOU in!!" warning was batshit.

Romney won. Easily. Huntsman emerged. Santorum, Paul and Cain can go home now. Bachmann has never been a serious candidate. Ever. She's ridiculous. Perry died in a way I've never seen anyone die in a debate. That was laughably shit. Which means Palin can jump in now and act like she's all magic and clever. Nice tits mind.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 3:15 am
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by Herpes Simplex View Post
Well you'll be happy then that even a lot of the Repub talking heads are gushing about Huntsman and Romney.

I must say I wasn't expecting a Fox contributor to say that Perry's performance was very "Palin Meets Couric." Ouch! He completely ballsed that up though. I'm pretty sure Bachmann's offhand "immigrants have diseases" line will get her some unwanted attention tomorrow. Cain is hilariously shit. Santorum is desperate not to appear the bigot he is. Newt doesn't want to be President - he wants to say funny things instead. Ron Paul has some very good ideas (theory - not practice) but sounds mental when he talks. The "look out people - a national border fence is to keep YOU in!!" warning was batshit.

Romney won. Easily. Huntsman emerged. Santorum, Paul and Cain can go home now. Bachmann has never been a serious candidate. Ever. She's ridiculous. Perry died in a way I've never seen anyone die in a debate. That was laughably shit. Which means Palin can jump in now and act like she's all magic and clever. Nice tits mind.
Ok I agree with what you are saying here but Romney still looks like someone nobody can trust (neither republican, democrat, or independent).

But these primaries are beauty contests and Perry looks more like the beauty than Romney.

Last edited by Michael; Sep 8th 2011 at 3:18 am.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 3:45 am
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Ok I agree with what you are saying here but Romney still looks like someone nobody can trust (neither republican, democrat, or independent).

But these primaries are beauty contests and Perry looks more like the beauty than Romney.
Perry did manage to make the strangest point (in a round about way). And that's that the government doesn't seem to have the power to vaccinate but it has the power to kill its own citizens. The cheering he got for that was mental.

Remember - executive orders for keeping people healthy from cancer by mandating the government to get involved are good. Government health care is not. Apparently.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 3:52 am
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by Herpes Simplex View Post
Perry did manage to make the strangest point (in a round about way). And that's that the government doesn't have the power to vaccinate but it has the power to kill its own citizens. The cheering he got for that was mental.
Yes and Perry also has the problem that his state has created the greatest number of jobs but they were either minimum wage or government workers. Also the state doesn't have any income tax but the state is near the bottom in education as well as the largest number of medical uninsured.

So every time he brings up the positive, he has to defend the negative.

The baggage will likely get heavier and heavier for Perry as time passes including many other things from his past but Romney is also carrying a large amount of baggage.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 7:27 am
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Sadly, the debate was not broadcast here, so I did not have the opportunity to see anything more than a few snippets on the news. Michael's post hit it pretty well on the head. Nothing new from the Repubs, just recycled crap that does not work. The Social Security issue should kill Perry. I think Romney will end up the nominee. I see that Huntsman made some headway and I always considered him the rational candidate in the field although I still disagree with him on some issues. But at least him I would not be afraid of. Bachman, Perry and some others scare the crap out of me. Not least, in a few cases, because of their religious fanaticism. I predict an ongoing bloodbath among that group as one by one they drop out leaving, likely, Romney and Perry. If Palin jumps in, let the circus begin. I just wish I could be the ringmaster.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by Herpes Simplex View Post
At the moment Mitt Romney is completely kicking Rick Perry's ass out of the building.
The only constantly reliable indicator is the Intrade futures market. Perry at 38% is trading higher then Romney 36% - (GOP candidate contract). All other GOP candidates are at very low numbers.

In the generic party contract the Dems lead 50.2% to the GOPs 48%.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
Sadly, the debate was not broadcast here, so I did not have the opportunity to see anything more than a few snippets on the news. Michael's post hit it pretty well on the head. Nothing new from the Repubs, just recycled crap that does not work. The Social Security issue should kill Perry. I think Romney will end up the nominee. I see that Huntsman made some headway and I always considered him the rational candidate in the field although I still disagree with him on some issues. But at least him I would not be afraid of. Bachman, Perry and some others scare the crap out of me. Not least, in a few cases, because of their religious fanaticism. I predict an ongoing bloodbath among that group as one by one they drop out leaving, likely, Romney and Perry. If Palin jumps in, let the circus begin. I just wish I could be the ringmaster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffYucaFkCHY
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 4:49 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by CelticRover View Post
Thanks.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 7:07 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
Thanks.
I take that thanks back. That's the New Hampshire debate.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 7:12 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

I hate it when what actually happened bears no resemblance to what people say happened. I notice that a large collection of people who get paid to talk about these sorts of things seem to have watched an entirely different debate to me.

Many conservative commentators - many whom have spent 3 weeks gushing at Rick Perry like he was Justin Beiber - seem to think he won the debate. Which is moronic. He made a tit of himself. He not only didn't win, he didn;t even place third. Rick Santorum even came across as better. Many of the same commentators also seem to think that Romney flailed about blandly even though he clearly made everyone else on the stage seem like they were just there to make him look better. I've also read some people banging on about what a top job Newt Gingrich did. Really? Obviously they didn't notice that whole part where Rick Perry started grunting, "look - I hate cancer" and Newt clearly wanted to interject that all you have to do is **** your secretary and voila - cancer is gone.

I also thought the nonsense from MSNBC hosts about Perry coming across as evil and scary was weird. No - he came across as unprepared and in way over his head.

At least everyone agrees (on all sides) that Bachmann is done and Herman Cain and his hilarious 999 slogans are toast.

Lastly - if one more person says, "oh but he looks Presidential" without recognizing that Romney/Perry, Obama and (for example) Jimmy Carter bear no physical resemblances I may pass out. It's almost as ridiculous as Chris Matthews and Andrew Sullivan banging on about candidates being immediately unqualified because they don't have the vast experience that their boyfriend Barack also didn't have.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 8:00 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by Herpes Simplex View Post
I hate it when what actually happened bears no resemblance to what people say happened. I notice that a large collection of people who get paid to talk about these sorts of things seem to have watched an entirely different debate to me.

Many conservative commentators - many whom have spent 3 weeks gushing at Rick Perry like he was Justin Beiber - seem to think he won the debate. Which is moronic. He made a tit of himself. He not only didn't win, he didn;t even place third. Rick Santorum even came across as better. Many of the same commentators also seem to think that Romney flailed about blandly even though he clearly made everyone else on the stage seem like they were just there to make him look better. I've also read some people banging on about what a top job Newt Gingrich did. Really? Obviously they didn't notice that whole part where Rick Perry started grunting, "look - I hate cancer" and Newt clearly wanted to interject that all you have to do is **** your secretary and voila - cancer is gone.

I also thought the nonsense from MSNBC hosts about Perry coming across as evil and scary was weird. No - he came across as unprepared and in way over his head.

At least everyone agrees (on all sides) that Bachmann is done and Herman Cain and his hilarious 999 slogans are toast.

Lastly - if one more person says, "oh but he looks Presidential" without recognizing that Romney/Perry, Obama and (for example) Jimmy Carter bear no physical resemblances I may pass out. It's almost as ridiculous as Chris Matthews and Andrew Sullivan banging on about candidates being immediately unqualified because they don't have the vast experience that their boyfriend Barack also didn't have.

There is a pretty good report here. http://swampland.time.com/2011/09/08...ry-gop-debate/ It pokes fun at some of the more idiotic remarks. My personal favorites:

Michelle Bachman on the question of accepting $1 in revenue increases for $10 in spending reduction.
85 minutes. The oddness continues. Bachmann weighs in with more logic that doesn’t really make sense. “There’s someone else who would join us in that agreement,” she says, about the consensus to reject a 10-to-1 deal. “And that would be Ronald Reagan, because Ronald Reagan made a deal where he took $3 in spending cuts for $1 in tax increases.” Read that a few more times. Be with it.

Apparently math is not her strong suit.

Perry: 88 minutes. Piñata Perry goes all out in response to a question about foreign affairs. “The other thing this President’s done, he has proven for once and for all that government spending will not create one job,” Perry says. “Keynesian policy and Keynesian theory is now done. We’ll never have to have that experiment on America again.” Somewhere a fact-checker considers where to even begin.

Mr Paranoid himself, Ron Paul: Paul reveals new levels of paranoia, saying that he worries a southern border fence could be used to keep Americans from fleeing to Mexico in an emergency. “Every time you think of [a] fence keeping all those bad people out, think about those fences maybe being used against us, keeping us in,” he says.

Mr Gold standard, Ron Paul on the price of gas, after Bachman made the ridiculous guarantee that SHE could bring the price of gas down to $1.79.
36 minutes. Paul says he would like to get rid of the minimum wage, attacks Perry for having written a letter supporting Hillary Clinton’s health care reforms, and tries to out-Bachmann Michele Bachmann. “I do want to address the subject of $2 oil or gasoline, because I can do it much better than that. I can get you a gallon of gasoline for a dime,” he says. “You can buy a gallon of gasoline today for a silver dime. A silver dime is worth $3.50. It’s all about inflation and too many regulations.”

What a bunch of doozies.

Someone on CNN last night said that there is nothing that Obama can say between now and the election to get reelected, But there are a lot of things the Republicans can say to get him reelected, and they are saying a lot them. So true.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 8:21 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
Mr Paranoid himself, Ron Paul: Paul reveals new levels of paranoia, saying that he worries a southern border fence could be used to keep Americans from fleeing to Mexico in an emergency. “Every time you think of [a] fence keeping all those bad people out, think about those fences maybe being used against us, keeping us in,” he says.
I interpreted his remarks in a completely different way. I took it to mean that going too far to shut out Mexico/South America/the Carribean could backfire on us in that it would ruin any reciprocity that we enjoy with the countries involved. I can't remember the exact wording but I think he made that distinction clearly.

The point was more along the lines of, "Let's think about what we might lose."

I don't recall him saying anything about "fleeing to Mexico in an emergency" though.
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Old Sep 8th 2011, 8:28 pm
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Default Re: Republican Debate

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
I interpreted his remarks in a completely different way. I took it to mean that going too far to shut out Mexico/South America/the Carribean could backfire on us in that it would ruin any reciprocity that we enjoy with the countries involved. I can't remember the exact wording but I think he made that distinction clearly.

The point was more along the lines of, "Let's think about what we might lose."

I don't recall him saying anything about "fleeing to Mexico in an emergency" though.
It's at the end of this clip.


I do disagree with the whole wall thing though. It's way to Berlin Wall for me.

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