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Analysis of US gun violence

Analysis of US gun violence

Old Jan 31st 2013, 5:07 pm
  #946  
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
and how is her Polish?
Beat me to it.
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Old Jan 31st 2013, 5:13 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
and how is her Polish?
Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
Beat me to it.
It's probably lousy because I can't think of a single Polish opera just now. Just goes to show, people aren't willing to adapt the dominant culture.
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Old Jan 31st 2013, 5:55 pm
  #948  
 
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
It's all good. Contrary to popular belief, we usually get a few hours of sunshine most days, even when the weather forecast shows 'cloudy/rainy/sleet/whatever'. And no guns here
Elvira Cosi fan tuttti and all that.
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 7:19 pm
  #949  
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider View Post
Criminals & other malcontents are going to get guns no matter what, because there are simply so many of them.

Registering all guns only goes so far because criminals and those with a particular view of the Second Amendment simply won't register theirs.

However, these are shite reasons for doing nothing.

So over time, measured in years probably, most guns would end up being registered. Then we could do more to track who owns which guns. Every transaction, even one in Craigslist, would require background checks and registered transfer of title similar to car sales. This would in time restrict the numbers of guns available to criminals, probably. It would certainly impress on legal gun owners a deeper and broader sense of responsibility. People who could not demonstrate safe storage of weapons (I'm not advocating they be kept broken down in a safe - not good for home defence, a legitimate need for having fire arms, as determined already by SCOTUS), or could not demonstrate safe use etc would be restricted in what types of weapons, and how many they could have, subject to review & relaxation once they demonstrated responsibility.

Having background checks for ammo sales would help maintain a sense of responsibility in gun owners, and help with registration - you can only buy ammo for the weapons registered in your name, not for others. Not fool proof, but it would impact the gun culture.

So I would tighten checks & registration as outlined above. I would ban mag sizes above 10 rounds. I would also instigate a whole bunch of objective research to inform the discussion in the future. I would not ban high velocity weapons out right, and I would restrict ownership of certain guns by people with certain kinds of mental earth issues and certain criminal records (assault, murder, rate etc). Some 96-98% of gun deaths are caused by hand guns & shot guns mostly. The high velocity gun question is for the moment a disruptive distraction in the debate, as is mental health as a factor in gun deaths. However, we should overhaul mental health care & culture in this country because it is embarrassingly bad.

And for the moment, that is all I would do.

Other than add a new phrase to the dictionary - doing a 'LaPierre', which is to flip flop AND use bullshit logic at the same time on any topic of importance to society. It is one worse than doing a 'Romney', which is a simple flip-flop, followed up inside 24hours with another flip flop on the same subject...

Lastly...

Mark Kelly at yesterday's hearings eloquently and powerfully made the case that had the Tucson shooter had a 10 round mag rather than a 30 round mag, at least one little 9 year old girl would still be alive today. Isn't that reason enough to restrict mag sizes?
I see where you are going with this, but they don't need to do anything other than enforce Form 4473 properly.

Lanza was denied a gun when they did a background check - this should have resulted in an immediate police presence, and he should have been sectioned there and then. A mentally ill person failing a background check should set an alarm bell ringing.

Same with felons who fail a background check, LEO make an immediate visit to the FFL followed by an arrest. If the guy is on any probation, it's immediately revoked, and he gets a jail sentence for trying to acquire a weapon.

Lets do registers of weapons, ammo sale registration (seriously - if you're a felon send your girlfriend to get the ammo!), and so forth when enforcing the current system fails.

But I do believe the gunshow loophole needs closing. If people want to act like a gun dealer, well here's your FFL registration document....
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 8:47 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by tinman0 View Post
I see where you are going with this, but they don't need to do anything other than enforce Form 4473 properly.

Lanza was denied a gun when they did a background check - this should have resulted in an immediate police presence, and he should have been sectioned there and then. A mentally ill person failing a background check should set an alarm bell ringing.

Same with felons who fail a background check, LEO make an immediate visit to the FFL followed by an arrest. If the guy is on any probation, it's immediately revoked, and he gets a jail sentence for trying to acquire a weapon.

Lets do registers of weapons, ammo sale registration (seriously - if you're a felon send your girlfriend to get the ammo!), and so forth when enforcing the current system fails.

But I do believe the gunshow loophole needs closing. If people want to act like a gun dealer, well here's your FFL registration document....
Would extending background checks to gun show sales require new legislation, or can it be done by Executive Order? (I think I would buy tickets to that little soirée !!)
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 8:52 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by gruffbrown View Post
Elvira Cosi fan tuttti and all that.
She's not replying.

Her tiny hand must be frozen.
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 8:57 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
She's not replying.

Her tiny hand must be frozen.
Ronnie Corbett
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 8:58 pm
  #953  
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
She's not replying.

Her tiny hand must be frozen.
That, or she was stabbed by a dog shit wielding, benefit scrounging immigrant.
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 9:25 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider View Post
Would extending background checks to gun show sales require new legislation, or can it be done by Executive Order? (I think I would buy tickets to that little soirée !!)
Some States already require backgrounds checks at gun shows. Oregon is one. So it doesn't need an executive order, it can be done other ways.
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 9:40 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider View Post
Would extending background checks to gun show sales require new legislation, or can it be done by Executive Order? (I think I would buy tickets to that little soirée !!)
Yes, and it can be done at the state level. There are already laws in place about registering as a car dealer once you trade x number of cars in a year, why not guns?

Some of the crap I read on gun forums, the right to buy and sell a gun privately without checks is thoroughly being abused, and frankly the ATF could do with some high level prosecutions.

I'm surprised that identifying the sources of stolen guns isn't made a higher priority as well. Obviously they are stolen, but someone is fencing guns.
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 10:40 pm
  #956  
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by tinman0 View Post
ISame with felons who fail a background check, LEO make an immediate visit to the FFL followed by an arrest. If the guy is on any probation, it's immediately revoked, and he gets a jail sentence for trying to acquire a weapon.
.
No..wrong again... out of 70k
fails they went after 44 people
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 10:52 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by Ray View Post
No..wrong again... out of 70k
fails they went after 44 people
Ray - are you suggesting the process described by tinman0 doesn't happen? I'm not knowledgeable about the process, so looking for clarity here.

With regards to your stats, I've seen similar, but can't remember where. By themselves these and other stats don't suggest the laws are inherently wrong, only that they perhaps aren't properly and/or fully enforced. This surely makes a stronger case for overhauling implementation of them before we use current stats as reason to either not bring in new laws, or do away with any of them?
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 11:03 pm
  #958  
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider View Post
Ray - are you suggesting the process described by tinman0 doesn't happen? I'm not knowledgeable about the process, so looking for clarity here.

With regards to your stats, I've seen similar, but can't remember where. By themselves these and other stats don't suggest the laws are inherently wrong, only that they perhaps aren't properly and/or fully enforced. This surely makes a stronger case for overhauling implementation of them before we use current stats as reason to either not bring in new laws, or do away with any of them?
go back in the 64 pages it came up before with a link
a dealer friend of mine says he has never know any follow up on
all the denial he gives out ..I see to recall Biden saying
they cannot afford it ..

update ..I was a little out

We learned what the new approach would be three days later. The Times reported, "Nearly 80,000 Americans were denied guns in 2010, according to Justice Department data, because they lied or provided inaccurate information about their criminal histories on background check forms. Yet only 44 of those people were charged with a crime."
http://www.newsmax.com/Koch/Koch-gun...1/14/id/471371

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/us...anted=all&_r=0

Last edited by Ray; Feb 1st 2013 at 11:20 pm.
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 11:36 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by Ray View Post
No..wrong again... out of 70k
fails they went after 44 people
Mind telling me what was wrong about my description 10 pages ago about CCW in Florida?
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Old Feb 1st 2013, 11:38 pm
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Default Re: Analysis of US gun violence

Originally Posted by Ray View Post
No..wrong again... out of 70k
fails they went after 44 people
What are you talking about?

I suggested that they don't make an immediate follow up to a failed background check, and you point out that they made a whole 44 arrests out of 70k failures! I think that rather proves the point I was making!

And why is Biden suggesting they don't have the funds - when the arrest would be made by a local law enforcement officer in the first place?
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