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9/11 rememberance

9/11 rememberance

Old Sep 11th 2011, 11:58 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
It is slightly odd how other nations often seem to be forgotten about and how this has ended up being a USA army support thing and I heard someone say recently that we shouldn't be forgetting about all the folks at home, the teachers, fire fighters, cops, whatever who might have been affected by this event but because they aren't in the army get forgotten about. I was impressed by the sentiments but it seems many others weren't as they saw it as a snub to the military.

I don't see how that was the case though...either way, it was a tragic event, it affected many people, some directly and others indirectly. :/
I think, IMHO, most people forget about people from other countries that were killed because the whole thing is seen as an attack only on the US! It's another Pearl Harbor, aimed at Americans. Too many of us forget there were foreign tourists and probably various ex-pats working in and around the building but those of us who have connections to at least the British, are more aware than regular punters on the street. :-}
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 12:03 am
  #32  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Bluegrass Lass View Post
This.

I view this constant reference to 9/11 and all the images repeated over and over again as some kind of emotional blackmail by the media. Yes, lets not forget, but do we really need a weeks long remembrance leading up to the actual anniversary? Do we have a weeks long remembrance leading up to Veteran's Day or Memorial Day? Of course we don't do that, so do we really need it for 9/11?

I really don't know. I just don't see this constant in-your-face photos and stories to be healthy or constructive. But apparently I'm the odd one out.

No you are not the odd one out. I to have a problem with the total bombardment of how it brought Americans together. The problem I have is... if all Americans were so united by this one event... then why is it ten years later we are at stalemate in this country! Politics is absolutely divided and people are extremely rude to each other, The shopkeepers are hell bent on screwing you over with hidden fees built into any sale and in general the local populace around here seem to think they can get away with anything they want by quoting their patriotism or Christianity. I feel that the media do a good job of making sure we do not forget...so they can gain revenue from the adverts.. lets see a day of TV with no adverts and see how the media loses interest! Oh and as for the Govt.. this fear allows them to keep tapping your phones and poking their noses into your bank accounts!

Saddened by the loss of those involved but wary that their memories are being used for gain!

Just my opinion.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 12:35 am
  #33  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
Otherwise, keep it rational and respectful and no problem.
Today that's what I felt like I saw. (On TV anyway, the display by the meat department at Kroger was weird and something I could have done without.)

I thought more about my initial reaction and wanted to elaborate. Someone had mentioned that one supporter had a small American flag for every victim, and not all of the victims were American. True, but really what is more important? That someone get all of the nationality's flags right or that the victims were honored? Each NYC victim's name is listed at the memorial pool, they are not divided by nationality, gender, race, class or in any other way. That's how it should be. In many ways, the victims of this tragedy were adopted by the American people and that filled me with pride.

Incidentally - the piece on the boat evacuation was fantastic. That was a story I had not previously heard (which is kind of mind blowing) and the sort of coverage I found inspirational today. For me, it wasn't about being Americans ... it was about humanity.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 12:59 am
  #34  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
The moment of silence they held in the Ireland v USA rugby match was rather touching and I know it's been said before, but those silences usually aren't that silent in the US, but this time around, you really could hear a pin drop.

Just nice that and then to follow it up with a proper choir to sing the national anthems of both nations.

Much nicer tribute than having some wobbling no singer celebrity butcher the thing that often happens here.

Apart from that, been avoiding the whole memorial thing. I can see more of a faff being made as it is 10 years, but time to move on, do the moment of silence as remembrance and get on with your day, or you're letting those who committed the act to win by getting into your heads.
I think it's really necessary to remember that Americans aren't as used to this sort of thing as you Brits. We haven't experienced two world wars on our doorstep as you have - we haven't had our country nearly bombed out of existence as you hve, nor have we had to endure the IRA's efforts at as much destruction as possible. Our only two memorable wars in our own country were too long ago for anyone to really remember them and they've faded into stories of heroism and mega-patriotism (i.e., Paul Revere, Patrick Henry, Ethan Allen, etc.).

We also haven't developed the ability to employ gallows or black humour to help us deal with our fears - and we are afraid! In that, you're right, we're letting them get into our heads and we don't know how to stop it. The everday Joe-Blow is sick to death of having to fight everyone and everything on a daily basis with, seemingly, no control over their lives. Government brow-beats us with things like "patriotism" - the "you're either with us or against us" mentality that gets people put on a no-fly list or labeled a possible sabateur, We haven't found our feet (or we've lost our balls) well enough to actually fight back with truly effective protests, marches or downright rebellion.

Have patience with us please - we're still floundering,much like a teen-ager who's just moved out and is finding life in the real world much different than it looked.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 2:59 am
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Egg and Cress View Post
I think it's really necessary to remember that Americans aren't as used to this sort of thing as you Brits. We haven't experienced two world wars on our doorstep as you have - we haven't had our country nearly bombed out of existence as you hve, nor have we had to endure the IRA's efforts at as much destruction as possible.
And without in any way wishing to demean what the people of this country feel about an attack on their own soil, nor the reality of the horror, I wish that it would also serve to increase the empathy that the people of this country feel for those who have to live every day with the violence inflicted upon them by the political and military actions of the U.S. as a state:
  • the bombs that rained down on civilians in the bombardments of Gulf wars 1 & 2
  • The tens of thousands who were killed, tortured and disappeared by the regimes of latin america during the 20th century that were put and kept in place by the U.S.
  • The people of Iran and Afghanistan whose normal lives are long, long gone

That is what it is like to have war inflicted on you by others, when you are only an innocent bystander. In just the above three examples, hundreds of thousands of people have died - civilians, people just trying to get by and live their lives. In New York, horrific as it was, just under 3,000 people were killed. So many other countries have suffered far, far more in this so called "war on terror."

I do not mean that the U.S. is necessarily worse in this regard than other world powers (the UK will sell arms to just about anyone, for example), but Americans are, when one meets them, largely a warm and friendly people. I wish they would expand that ability to put themselves in the place of those whose countries they affect so gravely. It would do the world a great deal of good.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 3:42 am
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And without in any way wishing to demean what the people of this country feel about an attack on their own soil, nor the reality of the horror, I wish that it would also serve to increase the empathy that the people of this country feel for those who have to live every day with the violence inflicted upon them by the political and military actions of the U.S. as a state:
  • the bombs that rained down on civilians in the bombardments of Gulf wars 1 & 2
  • The tens of thousands who were killed, tortured and disappeared by the regimes of latin america during the 20th century that were put and kept in place by the U.S.
  • The people of Iran and Afghanistan whose normal lives are long, long gone

That is what it is like to have war inflicted on you by others, when you are only an innocent bystander. In just the above three examples, hundreds of thousands of people have died - civilians, people just trying to get by and live their lives. In New York, horrific as it was, just under 3,000 people were killed. So many other countries have suffered far, far more in this so called "war on terror."

I do not mean that the U.S. is necessarily worse in this regard than other world powers (the UK will sell arms to just about anyone, for example), but Americans are, when one meets them, largely a warm and friendly people. I wish they would expand that ability to put themselves in the place of those whose countries they affect so gravely. It would do the world a great deal of good.
You have expressed that beautifully.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 3:47 am
  #37  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Egg and Cress View Post
I think, IMHO, most people forget about people from other countries that were killed because the whole thing is seen as an attack only on the US! It's another Pearl Harbor, aimed at Americans. Too many of us forget there were foreign tourists and probably various ex-pats working in and around the building but those of us who have connections to at least the British, are more aware than regular punters on the street. :-}
I did a google search out of curiosity and found that people from 90 countries died on 9/11, including 67 from the UK. Which means it would surely rank as one of the UK's worst terrorist incidents in itself.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 4:08 am
  #38  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And without in any way wishing to demean what the people of this country feel about an attack on their own soil, nor the reality of the horror, I wish that it would also serve to increase the empathy that the people of this country feel for those who have to live every day with the violence inflicted upon them by the political and military actions of the U.S. as a state:
  • the bombs that rained down on civilians in the bombardments of Gulf wars 1 & 2
  • The tens of thousands who were killed, tortured and disappeared by the regimes of latin america during the 20th century that were put and kept in place by the U.S.
  • The people of Iran and Afghanistan whose normal lives are long, long gone

That is what it is like to have war inflicted on you by others, when you are only an innocent bystander. In just the above three examples, hundreds of thousands of people have died - civilians, people just trying to get by and live their lives. In New York, horrific as it was, just under 3,000 people were killed. So many other countries have suffered far, far more in this so called "war on terror."

I do not mean that the U.S. is necessarily worse in this regard than other world powers (the UK will sell arms to just about anyone, for example), but Americans are, when one meets them, largely a warm and friendly people. I wish they would expand that ability to put themselves in the place of those whose countries they affect so gravely. It would do the world a great deal of good.
Socialist - you hate our country
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 1:04 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Socialist - you hate our country
That is a perfect example of the narrow-minded "you're either with us or against us" patriotism that so many earlier comments mentioned.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 1:13 pm
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
That is a perfect example of the narrow-minded "you're either with us or against us" patriotism that so many earlier comments mentioned.
Um, I think s/he is employing irony.


And in answer to someone who sent me a message via karma, yes, we could list out all the countries who have done/are doing harm to others via colonialism, military and political intervention, but it would be a long list. I was talking about the U.S., and, if you read carefully, the U.K. too. And I am also noting and admiring the warmth, kindness and friendliness of the American people. It is the actions of the state I question, and my wish is that the people would extend their natural empathy more to others so that they would no longer permit their state to inflict such damage.




Disclaimer: Saying such things about one country in no way implies that others don't do the same thing, we just can't talk about everybody at once.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 1:51 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
You have expressed that beautifully.
Yup.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 2:25 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Tom60 View Post
I did a google search out of curiosity and found that people from 90 countries died on 9/11, including 67 from the UK. Which means it would surely rank as one of the UK's worst terrorist incidents in itself.
I have no reason to doubt you’re right – but most Americans don’t seem to be aware of the fact there were visitors, visa holders, workers, etc., from other countries here. Again, we/they see it as an attack on America as it was on our soil and aimed at an icon of Americanism; most have no way of knowing that this was possibly the worst terrorist incident for the UK too. Most don’t even know to ask the question or think to Google information as to who else was there.

We’ve been taught from an early age that America is really all there is – the biggest, the smartest, the richest, the brightest, the best, the strongest. I’ve known people from the UK who made it clear that if I wasn’t born in England, I wasn’t born, I was found under a rock somewhere. We all have a sense of “motherland” that blinds us to what else is going on elsewhere. You also have the advantage of being very close to Europe, Africa and Asia while we're 5-8,000 miles from so much of what goes on in other countries. This is, by no means, an excuse for the insular, king-of-the-hill attitude too many Americans have, but it is a reason, reasonable or not.

Lion in Winter is right – we need to look beyond our borders, realize there is a “whole ‘nother world” that exists along with us and acknowledge our effect on them as well as theirs on us. I, for one, don’t know how to accomplish that.

Being an American, and hostess to many Brits (as well as being married to one) makes me want to make all of them understand that the majority of us are welcoming, “warm and friendly”, and would like to have you feel comfortable while you’re in our home – unfortunately, there are too many at the top who defeat that effort by maintaining a demeanor of competitiveness, combativeness, greed and control and IMO, are the creators of our tarnished, dented and rusty international image, much to the chagrin of the general populace.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 2:28 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Um, I think s/he is employing irony.
No. I don't believe so. What makes you think it was intended to be ironic?
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 2:32 pm
  #44  
 
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by Egg and Cress View Post
I’ve known people from the UK who made it clear that if I wasn’t born in England, I wasn’t born, I was found under a rock somewhere.
I wouldn't worry about it - there are some people in the UK who make it clear that if you were born in some other part of the UK than their particular region/city/borough/social or economic group then not only were you not born, you should have stayed under the rock.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: 9/11 rememberance

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
No. I don't believe so. What makes you think it was intended to be ironic?
Previous comments made by poster on other threads.
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