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poor old paula radcliffe

poor old paula radcliffe

Old Aug 24th 2004, 7:48 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by walla1
LEAD: NO LIGHT AT END OF RADCLIFFES TUNNEL VISION

Sub header:

The marathon runners easy, outgoing personality was suffocated by an intense, all consuming focus on winning Olympic gold but questions remain about her preparation for the extreme conditions in Athens remain.

Very interesting article in todays Gaurdian about her obssessive husband and pushing her all the way. However I'd love to see her do the 10k on Friday and follow Kelly's example. Come on Paula stuff em

Walla
I (and loads more) would love to see her doing precisely that in the 10000 m.

Still possible.
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Old Aug 24th 2004, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by dgsyd1
I'm with you Taffyles. I wish people would give her a break, she did the best she could possibly do, and that's all we can ask of her. I'm wondering if the people calling her a quitter actually saw the race! At the end she could barely stand let alone run, but she still tried to carry on running. Does anyone actually think she wanted to quit? I guess what we have here is a case of knocking someone while they're down.
yeah a lot of that ..and clueless Armchair Athletes who suddenly become expert when the Olympics are on. You won't find any real athletes knocking her- cos they know what she did- set a blistering pace in blistering heat and ran herself into a standstill. I just hope she pulled out of the race in time and didn't do herself any permanent damage- watching the race, I thought she should have pulled up two miles earlier... before she really hit the wall.

Johnnot- a quitter would not have been the pace setter for over 20 miles- a quitter would have been coasting along at the back not really trying to what she is capable of because of the heat. A quitter would not have given an interview the day after (although IMO she shouldn't have done it so soon) - a quitter would have run and hid from the world. Lets face it a quitter would not be able to cope with the marathon training alone let alone race one.
And if you have watched Paula Radcliff's career- and I seriously doubt that you have until she became the tabloid certainty for gold- you would KNOW that Paula is anything BUT a quitter. The word 'weak' doesn't even come into it- but thanks for the laugh
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Old Aug 24th 2004, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by Taffyles
clueless Armchair Athletes who suddenly become expert when the Olympics are on. You won't find any real athletes knocking her-
Exactly. I have only the most amateur and, let's face it, slow, experience of long distance running. But even at that pace you can find out what total physical exhaustion can do to the body and the mind. I would be surprised if Kentish and John thingy have ever experienced this. I'm glad Lairdside showed up here too. Another one who knows.
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Old Aug 24th 2004, 8:27 pm
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by Don
I (and loads more) would love to see her doing precisely that in the 10000 m.

Still possible.
I'd love to see it too- that would be the fairytale ending. I'm sure she'd like nothing better than to take it on and slam it in some of her critics faces but I don't think its physically possible.
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Old Aug 24th 2004, 10:21 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by Taffyles
I'd love to see it too- that would be the fairytale ending. I'm sure she'd like nothing better than to take it on and slam it in some of her critics faces but I don't think its physically possible.
I feel that she needs to do whatever is best long term for herself and the future of her career. I read the article by Steve Cram in which he states that he does not think she should compete in the 10,000. No doubt she feels a lot of pressure to "redeem" herself. Imho that would be precisely the wrong reason to run, if she feels good and feels she can do well then that's another matter.

As the great Emil Zatopek said "Great is the victory, but the friendship is all the greater". I am sure that Paula has many, many friends whether she chooses to compete in the 10k or not and whether she wins or not.
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 12:25 am
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by lairdside
I feel that she needs to do whatever is best long term for herself and the future of her career. I read the article by Steve Cram in which he states that he does not think she should compete in the 10,000. No doubt she feels a lot of pressure to "redeem" herself. Imho that would be precisely the wrong reason to run, if she feels good and feels she can do well then that's another matter.

As the great Emil Zatopek said "Great is the victory, but the friendship is all the greater". I am sure that Paula has many, many friends whether she chooses to compete in the 10k or not and whether she wins or not.

Oh yes, of course. And I'm sure she will make the decision that's right for her- she's a very experienced athlete and she has a good team. Even when she was really low emotionally in her interview with Cram- she said she would not put herself in that arena (despite the pressure to 'redeem') if she wasn't right, and she had the presence of mind to delay her decision to run until she had recovered a little emotionally. IF, very big IF, she can get back to a place where she's physically and mentally fit to race, she'll have all the motivation for a great run though and that would be the best medicine for her. There's not enough recovery time though imo.

Last edited by Taffyles; Aug 25th 2004 at 12:30 am.
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 4:40 am
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by Taffyles
Oh yes, of course. And I'm sure she will make the decision that's right for her- she's a very experienced athlete and she has a good team. Even when she was really low emotionally in her interview with Cram- she said she would not put herself in that arena (despite the pressure to 'redeem') if she wasn't right, and she had the presence of mind to delay her decision to run until she had recovered a little emotionally. IF, very big IF, she can get back to a place where she's physically and mentally fit to race, she'll have all the motivation for a great run though and that would be the best medicine for her. There's not enough recovery time though imo.
Yup, there's a great element of "getting back up on the horse that just threw you off". My main concern is that they still aren't sure exactly went wrong - yes it may have been due to emotional stress - but I would think it prudent to do some serious checks before putting someone under further physiological and psychological strain.

I don't doubt that a good safe decision will be made. I am concerned that it will be one that many members of the public do not like and they will throw a hissy fit and that Paula will feel even worse (although personally I hope she doesn't give a jot). That people can attempt to undermine all that Paula has accomplished due to their own feelings of disappointment and inadequacy is saddening to me. We learn far more from our failures than our sucesses. It just pisses me off that people see fit to criticise Paula's performance and/or decision - don't they think she feels badly enough already without added "booing" from the public? Do they believe that expressing their distain will somehow spur her to greater future performances?

A friend in need is a friend in deed. Too many fair weather supporters about imho
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 4:49 am
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

[QUOTE=lairdsideA friend in need is a friend in deed. Too many fair weather supporters about imho [/QUOTE]

Fair weather supporters who have no clue as to what's involved.
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 5:48 am
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

[QUOTE=Lion in Winter]
Originally Posted by lairdsideA friend in need is a friend in deed. Too many fair weather supporters about imho :([/QUOTE

Fair weather supporters who have no clue as to what's involved.
Yup. I just have to quote Emil Zatopec again (he came out with so many good ones )

"It's at the borders of pain and suffering that the men are separated from the boys."

And another which illustrates what world class runners go through (He was talking about his marathon win at the Helsinki Olympics):

"I was unable to walk for a whole week after that, so much did the race take out of me. But it was the most pleasant exhaustion I have ever known."

Anyone here ever taken part in a sport so intensely that they couldn't walk for a week afterwards (without having incurred an injury)? You are so right Lion, no clue whatsoever.
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 8:40 am
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by lairdside
Yup. I just have to quote Emil Zatopec again (he came out with so many good ones )

"It's at the borders of pain and suffering that the men are separated from the boys."

And another which illustrates what world class runners go through (He was talking about his marathon win at the Helsinki Olympics):

"I was unable to walk for a whole week after that, so much did the race take out of me. But it was the most pleasant exhaustion I have ever known."

Anyone here ever taken part in a sport so intensely that they couldn't walk for a week afterwards (without having incurred an injury)? You are so right Lion, no clue whatsoever.
I used to have a few problems getting out of bed sometimes in my running days- especially after a heavy weight session...turning on my stomach and sliding out was the only way to do it I'm sure you've been there. Still went out and did my 10 mile run in the evening though....masochists we are.

The fair weather friends will be focussing on Kelly Holmes winning the double now. The press are the worst offenders but today's news is tomorrow's chip papers- they'll be full of Holmes now, no doubt, and give Radcliff a break.

I will be very surprised if we see Paula on the starting line for the 10K....as I said, nice fairytale.

Greg White, one of her doctors, thinks her body overheated way beyond critical point, which as you know shuts the body down. Maybe the test results will show something. I remember once pulling up in a cross country race about 200 yds from the finish line- I was way out in front and could have walked across to win but couldnt put one leg in front of the other, which was really baffling until a week later I tested positive for glandular fever.
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 12:41 pm
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Sorry but I am not sure if I understand this. Surely she broke down by purely overpacing herself. Nobody had asked her to run up front at that pace. And for some former British athletes to comment: "Not the best athlete has won only the one who can do it in the heat". Pardon? I thought it was clear for the last 8 years where that marathon was taken place.
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 8:19 pm
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by simbacat
Sorry but I am not sure if I understand this. Surely she broke down by purely overpacing herself. Nobody had asked her to run up front at that pace. And for some former British athletes to comment: "Not the best athlete has won only the one who can do it in the heat". Pardon? I thought it was clear for the last 8 years where that marathon was taken place.

Paula Radcliffe was defeated by the elements not by the ability of the other women in the field....is that easier to understand? Former British Athletes are right the best athlete did not win- but sheesh what would they know about it, eh? Yep the Japanese Nya (can't remember how to spell her name) had a huge advantage running in those conditions and was biologically equipped to deal with the heat. No doubt she did a personal best time as she was pulled along by Radcliffe for the best part of the race...but in sensible conditions she would never have lived with Paula. Paula is the best woman marathon runner in the world- she still holds the World best time.

You know there's a whole world of difference between running in the race hoping to do your best and running to win the gold medal. Paula could have jogged along at half pace and still come in about 6th/7th, but she gave it all she had to win the gold. She ran her own race in a gutsy attempt to win gold, her pace was slower than she normally races but still too fast for the conditions on the day and the elements defeated her- its simple really.
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Old Aug 25th 2004, 9:10 pm
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by Taffyles
Paula Radcliffe was defeated by the elements not by the ability of the other women in the field....is that easier to understand? Former British Athletes are right the best athlete did not win- but sheesh what would they know about it, eh? Yep the Japanese Nya (can't remember how to spell her name) had a huge advantage running in those conditions and was biologically equipped to deal with the heat. No doubt she did a personal best time as she was pulled along by Radcliffe for the best part of the race...but in sensible conditions she would never have lived with Paula. Paula is the best woman marathon runner in the world- she still holds the World best time.

You know there's a whole world of difference between running in the race hoping to do your best and running to win the gold medal. Paula could have jogged along at half pace and still come in about 6th/7th, but she gave it all she had to win the gold. She ran her own race in a gutsy attempt to win gold, her pace was slower than she normally races but still too fast for the conditions on the day and the elements defeated her- its simple really.

even she admitted it wasn't the 'elements'

basically paula for all she's worth (2.2 million pa) is a bottler..i believe she suffers from anxiety attacks when confronted by 'the big one'

we have others who operate simular -jimmy white and of course tim henman.

all three won't win a major whilst they have a hole in their arse..it's nothing to do with talent -all three have that.

it's a mental thing. they can compete at the highest level for sure but when the chips are down they bottle it..pure and simple.

it's a personality trait. we should stop making up silly excuses like 'it was hot' as she had had six months hot training and didn't feel in the least concerned..

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html

this is a link to the australian lady rower who obviously suffers from the same....and it has happened to her in the past too..

she is unable to understand what goes wrong (sound familar) but say's it's probably the stress/anxiety of 'the big event' and all that that entails..

which is exactly how paula operates..fine in an open event -even setting world records etc..

but come 'the big event' with heaps of pressure on her and she bottles it..tough love but none the less true


cheers

richard
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Old Aug 26th 2004, 12:03 am
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

Originally Posted by r.bartlett
even she admitted it wasn't the 'elements'

basically paula for all she's worth (2.2 million pa) is a bottler..i believe she suffers from anxiety attacks when confronted by 'the big one'

we have others who operate simular -jimmy white and of course tim henman.

all three won't win a major whilst they have a hole in their arse..it's nothing to do with talent -all three have that.

it's a mental thing. they can compete at the highest level for sure but when the chips are down they bottle it..pure and simple.

it's a personality trait. we should stop making up silly excuses like 'it was hot' as she had had six months hot training and didn't feel in the least concerned..

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html

this is a link to the australian lady rower who obviously suffers from the same....and it has happened to her in the past too..

she is unable to understand what goes wrong (sound familar) but say's it's probably the stress/anxiety of 'the big event' and all that that entails..

which is exactly how paula operates..fine in an open event -even setting world records etc..

but come 'the big event' with heaps of pressure on her and she bottles it..tough love but none the less true


cheers

richard
Oh lord you can't compare her to a rower- who seems to have a history of this sort of thing. Radcliffe doesn't. And why on earth would you expect Tim Henman to win Wimbledon when he has never been ranked no.1 in the world- he does a pretty good job living up to his rankings in that competition given all the pressure....he often gets to the quarters in the world's biggest tennis event- bottler? I don't think so.

Radcliffe is a world record holder for numerous events- she has won European, Commonwealth and WORLD titles (bottlers don't win the big ones)- she has successfully defended her World Cross Country title. At the Sydney Olympics she came 4th...smashing her British and commonwealth records (hardly a bottler at the big one). I'd take a look at her competitive record before you make your amateur pyschological assessments, if I were you. Anxiety attacks my arse...sorry but jeeze look at the girls creds alone. Her coach doesn't agree with you about her personality, but then he's only coached her since she was 12.


I'll listen to Greg White, Director of science and reasearch at the English Institute of Sport and an EXPERT in acclimatisation and coping in extreme temperatures.

He states that she overheated....

"Despite meticulous preparation to deal with the Athens heat of 35C, Radcliffe's body temperature rose several degrees above the critical zone of 37-40C in the latter stages of the marathon."

""It is a simple case that Paula overheated, the question is why," said Dr White. "The body has an in-built thermostat which controls the body temperature. But when you exercise it rises and the body reacts by sweating and shifting blood to the surface. If you reach the critical temperature exercise has to slow down and eventually stop."

"Dr White said the pattern of Radcliffe's run showed the classic signs of heat exhaustion. Her split times fell gradually as the race progressed and she suffered from a burst of speed around the 30km mark before dropping down the field. "Sunday night was about who coped with the heat best. It revolved around who dealt well with it, which comes down partly to genetic predisposition and experience."

Full article:http://sport.independent.co.uk/olymp...p?story=554566

I guess all those World class athletes were right, after all. Who'd have thunk it
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Old Aug 26th 2004, 12:29 am
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Default Re: poor old paula radcliffe

I think some of these comments have been unkind to the winner of the marathon. She ran the best race and won it deservedly. Everyone ran under the same conditions, and they finished where they deserved to finish. As the Olympic gold medal winner it's fair to say that Mizuki Noguchi is indeed one of the very best. She too has very impressive credentials. Meaning it wasn't Radcliffes gold to lose - she hadn't won it and didn't have exclusive rights to it. She was not pre-destined to win but by some odd happenstance she lost it. The "where did it go wrong" angle of all this analysis seems to start from the position that Radcliffe was going to win. I would argue that the top 4 runners ran Radcliffe out of the race because that is what happened. Nobody "was pulled along by Radcliffe for the best part of the race" as it seemed very evident that she was having a very hard time keeping up. So much so that she dropped out.

I don't think this says anything about her character or anyone elses. And I don't think being Japanese gives you an advantage running in Greece. It was a a race. And she won. Good for her.
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