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The 2019-2020 Football Thread

The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Old Jan 9th 2020, 1:02 pm
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Smile Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Yernited allegedly offering Ashley Young another year
Taken from another site
One year contract extension?
It’s getting depressing supporting United these days.

So Preston signing Scott Sinclair from Celtic. Does this mean Rosie Webster will turn up back on Coronation Street?
I have just heard on the radio man utd have just sighed rosie webster as there new striker in time to face city in return leg
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 1:20 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by SpoogleDrummer View Post
Smaller squads would just mean less professional players,
and thus even things up a bit.
the top clubs would just ditch injury prone players and fringe players, so they'd be much better than the other teams even if they took their cast offs.
But less better off because when Matip/Gomez or Fabinho were injured/suspended they'd not be able to slot Lovren or Wijnaldum right in there.
Man City wouldn't be able to save De Bruyne for the CL match and simply call on Sterling, Mahrez or Sane instead. They'd have to work a bit harder at replacements and develop someone. Just as clubs used to.
Meanwhile other clubs would benefit from players the big clubs couldn't hold onto and lower clubs again would also benefit from other players seeking a move. It's the way it used to be.
The clubs that would usually benefit from loaning a fringe player wouldn't be able to afford the wages etc so they'd be worse off.
You'll need to explain that. If a player can't get games at Big Club FC anymore and either wants to leave to play or Big Club FC already has the squad they're allowed, then he is released or transferred and will seek the next best level that suits him. He has to adjust his contract requirements accordingly exactly as players do now when they're getting older.
The top clubs would either pay their players even more money or just make more profit and be better off than ever
Sorry, don't see that.
"I want my share of the wages you're saving by having to release some players" says Big Club FC player "or I want to transfer to Not Quite as Big Club FC."
"Okay, fair enough. See, we're actually putting the money saved into player development. Are you aware, Mr Superstar, that NQABC FC are also having to release players so they won't have room for you? How'd you fancy dropping to Nowhere Near as big club FC instead or would you rather stay at Big Club FC on the same money, perhaps a bigger bonus because you'll be playing more?"
On the plus side the likes of Jack Wilshire would have been forced to retire about 5 years ago because absolutely nobody would touch him.
Well there you go. I've persuade you
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 1:23 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Yernited allegedly offering Ashley Young another year
Taken from another site
One year contract extension?
It’s getting depressing supporting United these days.
If every ManU player demonstrated the same attitude and determination Ashley Young does, they'd be top four.
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Man City wouldn't be able to save De Bruyne for the CL match and simply call on Sterling, Mahrez or Sane instead. They'd have to work a bit harder at replacements and develop someone. Just as clubs used to.
.
not sure they could work much harder at developing players tbh

Foden, Angelino, Garcia, Doyle, Harwood-Bellis getting first team games. Sancho and Duncan and Trippier all developed in the Citeh academy as was Denis Suarez, Diaz, Boyata etc etc

Last edited by Garbatellamike; Jan 9th 2020 at 4:21 pm. Reason: Ihenacho too
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 5:33 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

'Arry Kane out for the season apparantly
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 5:46 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike View Post
not sure they could work much harder at developing players tbh
Who for though?

Foden, Angelino, Garcia, Doyle, Harwood-Bellis getting first team games. Sancho and Duncan and Trippier all developed in the Citeh academy as was Denis Suarez, Diaz, Boyata etc etc
I'm trying not to make this a City thing because it's happening with a few clubs. But Arsenal fans used to say the same thing when the England age teams were full of their academy players. But nobody ever made it to their first team and they ended up at other clubs, usually lower down the league, not because they were never good enough - that would not make sense - but because they never had the chance to develop as their equivalents used to.

Even those names at City it's only Foden who is getting close. I see from premierleague.com stats of the 11 appearances from 21 league games this season, 9 were off the bench. Two starts from 21 isn't exactly promising. Last season 10 of his 13 appearances were as sub. Only 3 starts.

I know he's only 19 - but Wayne Rooney and Cesc Fabregas had 33 premier league starts each when they were only 17 and they came from nowhere, whereas expectations with Foden have been high since 2017 when he got player of the tournament at the under 17s world cup.

Of course there's the argument about who is left out for him, but this is part of the whole issue isn't it. A few years ago his chance would come through injury or suspension and now, one of the other established players just comes in instead and Foden is held back.

We all hope he's going to be David Silva's replacement but he's going to need to be making a lot more starts before that happens. Maybe it will in the remainder of the season but there's already been talk of interest in alternatives - older and with more experience - so I'm not holding my breath on it.

It's all quite depressing.
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

If you were forced to have a smaller squad though why would you both developing players at all? You'd just buy the finished article rather than take a risk on potential. Look at Dom Solanki or Jordan Ibe, we'd never have even given them a chance at Liverpool if it meant we couldn't have Salah, Mane, Firmino or even Origi. They're hardly doing much at Bournemouth now either.
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 7:03 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by SpoogleDrummer View Post
If you were forced to have a smaller squad though why would you both developing players at all? You'd just buy the finished article rather than take a risk on potential.
You'd be developing players so that they would be the replacements for your other players as they get older and lose their usefulness. It's a gradual process.

You can't buy the finished article (with a more limited squad) because you already have 25 of them and you've got no room for them.
Look at Dom Solanki or Jordan Ibe, we'd never have even given them a chance at Liverpool if it meant we couldn't have Salah, Mane, Firmino or even Origi.
How were they given a chance with Salah, Mane and Firmino instead?

Dominic Solanke - 2nd top scorer in under 20 world cup 2017. A team that now sees Kenny with 31 Premier League games at Everton and now a regular in the Bundesliga; Tomori getting regular games for Chelsea; Cook an established PL player of two seasons; Lookman played 21 PL games last season and had a successful spell in Bundesliga.

Solanke - I'm not sure 21 appearances, 16 from the bench really counts as getting a chance does it?
The bulk of Ibe's games for Liverpool were 2015-16 and thenn he left for Bournemouth. Salah was signed a year later. Not sure I see the connection
They're hardly doing much at Bournemouth now either.
Ibe was never that good. 24 starts within 54 appearances over two seasons was a good sample to make a judgement.
Solanke's 5 starts in 21 appearances much less so. Who knows what might have happened if he'd had the chances Ibe got?

This is the sad thing. We see players at the top clubs with a lot of potential. They could train with top stars, play with top stars and against top stars. They could get tested at the level commensurate with their potential.

Instead they go out on loan. If they're 'lucky' to another Prem club. At least that way they get to be tested against the best. But then they're in a relegation battle and their development is sacrificed because the borrowing club wants survival first. They have a completely inappropriate role for their development because the need of the club comes first.

More likely they're on loan to a Middlesbrough, a Swansea, a Bristol City...and either they only impress because of the lower standard (big fish, small pond thing) and they go to another club on loan for more of the same, while the parent club signs the ready made replacement while they have a series of loans and stagnate.

And we never get to know whether they would have fulfilled the potential they originally showed because they've never been properly tested at that level.

Last edited by BristolUK; Jan 9th 2020 at 7:05 pm.
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 7:18 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Who for though?


I'm trying not to make this a City thing because it's happening with a few clubs. But Arsenal fans used to say the same thing when the England age teams were full of their academy players. But nobody ever made it to their first team and they ended up at other clubs, usually lower down the league, not because they were never good enough - that would not make sense - but because they never had the chance to develop as their equivalents used to.

Even those names at City it's only Foden who is getting close. I see from premierleague.com stats of the 11 appearances from 21 league games this season, 9 were off the bench. Two starts from 21 isn't exactly promising. Last season 10 of his 13 appearances were as sub. Only 3 starts.

I know he's only 19 - but Wayne Rooney and Cesc Fabregas had 33 premier league starts each when they were only 17 and they came from nowhere, whereas expectations with Foden have been high since 2017 when he got player of the tournament at the under 17s world cup.

Of course there's the argument about who is left out for him, but this is part of the whole issue isn't it. A few years ago his chance would come through injury or suspension and now, one of the other established players just comes in instead and Foden is held back.

We all hope he's going to be David Silva's replacement but he's going to need to be making a lot more starts before that happens. Maybe it will in the remainder of the season but there's already been talk of interest in alternatives - older and with more experience - so I'm not holding my breath on it.

It's all quite depressing.
well part of the way to combat FFP is to develop players for other clubs, no?

Foden is, quite rightly, being eased in and is still young and developing, he's training and playing with KdB, Merlin and Bernado so is well placed to learn from the best. No reason to rush him and risk burnout or failure. Don't forget Walcott when was 17 and was supposed to be brilliant and then never kicked on. The Stockport Iniesta is progressing nicely and getting more time...

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Old Jan 9th 2020, 7:27 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike View Post
well part of the way to combat FFP is to develop players for other clubs, no?...
I suppose it's one way. I'm not sure it needs combatting though. But it's maybe a bit more honest than.....

No, let's not go there.
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 7:31 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I suppose it's one way. I'm not sure it needs combatting though. But it's maybe a bit more honest than.....

No, let's not go there.
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 7:40 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
You'd be developing players so that they would be the replacements for your other players as they get older and lose their usefulness. It's a gradual process.

You can't buy the finished article (with a more limited squad) because you already have 25 of them and you've got no room for them.
Of course you can, you buy the player then the player they're replacing loses their place in the squad and they're either sold on or if they refuse they're on gardening leave, you're not wasting a space on a player that may come good eventually.
Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
How were they given a chance with Salah, Mane and Firmino instead?
The very fact they were in the squad was their chance, if we didn't have the space due to size limitations they wouldn't even be in the squad so they had more of a chance than if we never had them at all. The fact is they didn't make the cut with the current squad sizes, making the squads smaller means they'd have even less chance.
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Old Jan 9th 2020, 10:48 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by el collado kid View Post
I have just heard on the radio man utd have just sighed rosie webster as there new striker in time to face city in return leg
Well she would fit in ok as we have a few players that we could describe as female body parts currently running around the pitch.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 9:46 am
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike View Post
'Arry Kane out for the season apparantly
Presumably Kane’s hamstring will be the new “Beckham’s metatarsal” in the preparation of England in the build up to the Euros
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: The 2019-2020 Football Thread

Originally Posted by yellowroom View Post
Presumably Kane’s hamstring will be the new “Beckham’s metatarsal” in the preparation of England in the build up to the Euros
Or they're trying to keep him fresh until the Euros.......
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