Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

My husband has had the chance to go to Japan two times... Both of which he turned down as we had just moved to France and he liked it here. However, he has always wanted to experience life in Asia and does regret his choices at times. Now the second job has been re-advertised and, compared to other available jobs, this is his number one choice. Of course, this also depends on me, but I cannot say where I stand as I have never been to Japan. However, I do know that the alternative options involve me being forbidden from working and sometimes require my learning another language. I would appreciate it if anyone can answer just a few of my questions. It would make it easier to decide where to go!

We would be living near Tokyo in Kanagawa prefecture and it is a temporary position (3-5 years).

1. What kind of visas would we need?

2. As a spouse, will I have permission to work? If yes, does anyone know the average requirements for teaching English either to young children or adults (I am currently studying TESOL, but have no degree)? Am I able to volunteer?

3. I studied Japanese before (in case you haven't read my Beijing post, I was able to learn 2,000 kanji in two years to give an idea of my language abilities), so I am not very worried about picking up my reading/writing skills. I can easily make myself understood while speaking, even if it is not perfect. However, I tend to have trouble with my listening skills no matter what I try (even in school when we listened to cassettes I never did well)! I sometimes panic and the words are nonsense that goes in one ear and out the other, though even if I don't panic I never comprehend everything. How much of a problem will this be and does anyone have any advice?

4. How difficult is it to get by with basic Japanese (I might have been good before, but I’m rusty now)? e.g. Do any products have other languages on them (English, French, Dutch, Spanish, German)? Does anyone there know English? How much English would the average English-speaker know? How willing are they to speak it? How willing are they to aid foreigners? I know my husband didn't have a lot of luck getting help when he went, but he's a 6'4" white man who tends to look rather angry when confused/lost, whereas I'm a 'cute' 5'2" half East Asian half white woman.

5. Are there a lot of activities and places to explore in the area we would be living in (we know there will be in Tokyo, but it might not always be possible to go there)?

6. How is the foreign community in and around Tokyo? For example, where we are now there is a network of foreigners and it is fairly easy to find a place to begin with whatever it is you need or want to do.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post! :)

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

A month ago you were questioning us about the climate and conditions of Beijing, now it's Tokyo....

Are you playing a game with us ? :frown:

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I am not 'playing a game'. My husband is applying for several positions and they happen to be all over the world. This is why I am asking questions about immigrating to several places (I've also posted in the US forum): so we can decide which is the best place to go to. We are not like most people on this forum as my husband doesn't work for a company that wishes to send him abroad with everything covered and taken care of... it's all on our shoulders, which is why it's important to gather more information about all our options.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I think if you are looking for a mid to long term move, you would first pin point the location, then your husband applies for the job vacancies, then when you visit the country (for example for an interview or short holiday) you would get many of your questions answered from your own observations. As now, you seem determined to leave France and go anywhere. You should make a decision - at least in terms of East or West.

I would suggest if you are also wanting a job, Asia won't satisfy you, unless you want to teach English. Japan will be similar to China, in that foreign experts can easily get work permits, but their accompanying family can't find employment with foreign companies as they tend to bring in their own people.

The US would then be your best bet for a job - but right now employment levels might discount against that.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Japan has some of the strictest immigration laws on the planet but they can often be seen as being a lot more sensical and straight forward than the likes of Korea or even the United States.

Your husband would need employment-based sponsorship which I don't think is an easy thing to get hold of unless your a language teacher. Like in most cases, I imagine that depends very much on the type of work and the supply of Japanese workers available though.

As the spouse of a Japanese (with the correct visa) you would have full working rights but as the spouse of a foreigner, I'm not too sure. English teaching work can also be difficult to find if you're a westerner of asian origin as they don't take all that kindly to them over there.

I imagine that it could be quite difficult to live there with minimal Japanese skills unless you were part of a small community of westerners and again I think that is usually an English teacher thing. Virtually nobody speaks any language other than Japanese over there and I felt far more intimidated when I was there than I have in any other country that I have ever been to.

There are small pockets of foreigners in Japan and I saw them myself when I was there but they tend to live in their own little world outside of society as is usually the case with these things and I don't think that joining them long term would really be the best idea.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Thank you both for your advice. We appreciate it.

Choosing where to go sounds so simple, but it is easier said than done. We are not rich and do not have the money to visit all the possible places (even if it is only two places in Asia, for example). Plus, it isn't exactly my husband's choice where he goes; it also depends on whether he gets accepted or not and where that job is!

One could ask why we don't wait to see where he gets accepted, but by then there is limited time for my husband to accept one offer and reject the others. i.e. Not enough time to get the information in order to decide where we may live (potentially for the rest of our lives)! It would be silly to pick one choice and stick with it without knowing anything about it. e.g. If we already decide we are going to Beijing, we would be putting all of our eggs in one basket and it would be disastrous to discover we don't like it at all after visiting. So I gather as much information as possible from multiple sources to help give us a better idea of what to expect. It narrows things down and pinpoints which pros and cons we are comparing. By the time we know where he has been accepted, we will hopefully be confident about our decision and be prepared.

I've already discovered that, if we go to the US, I will be forbidden from working! I've heard recently from other people in Japan that a spousal visa will at least allow 20 hours a week (though I would need confirmation on that).

I don't know if my husband will be sponsored by his employer and I have heard about how difficult it is to immigrate there. Then again, the US isn't easy either. However, this job offer is specifically for foreigners and is advertised in English so I am guessing they are expecting to sponsor the successful applicant.

They don't take kindly to those that try to teach English, or they don't take kindly to them at all?

As for joining the 'outcast foreigner' society... We are more or less in one here in France, though there are French people within our group. I wonder if it would be similar in Japan? I'm guessing we would likely spend most of our time with colleagues my husband already knows there (especially in the beginning). They are well-travelled and more likely to mingle with people from all over the world too. Here we have not only French friends, but Italian, Colombian, American, Japanese... The Japanese expats I've met were very friendly and curious about me, but they may be in a special category as most Japanese do not live anywhere other than Japan.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Just teaching English, don't get me wrong, they are a lovely people but they have their visions of what an English teacher should look like and it usually means that Asian-western people don't get a chance. It is also exceptionally hard by all accounts to find English teaching work there without a University degree these days.

Unfortunately the ones that you have met will be a minority as well. They don't really leave their country very often as a race (my girlfriend's Mum speaks English quite well but like most Japanese people has never left the country in her lifetime) and I don't think that a lot of Japanese-foreigner mixing goes on there outside a few of the more cosmopolitan businesses and language speaking communities.

It is quite an odd society on the whole as well, I found things out for the first time when I was there last year that I didn't particularly like. The fact that they have seperate carriages on some trains where men aren't permitted due to a groping epidemic being one of them.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Be careful with that term, in Japan that is what they call the visa given to residents who are married to Japanese citizens. The visa you would be on is obviously different to that.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Would be tough for me depending on how they see me then. I do get some people that insist I look 100% white, but I guess I wouldn't know until I've been there... What if I dyed my hair blonde and wore blue contacts? :lol:

It seems that way everywhere in the world now.

Yes, that's what I thought and is also what I have been told a number of times, either by those who have lived/visited Japan or by Japanese people themselves. So I guess it is also true that it is tough to get to know and to befriend Japanese people?

I've seen and heard about a number of different things. Most things I find interesting and sometimes amusing, but it might be different if I'm there. It's fun hearing about people's experiences, but it might not be so enjoyable when I find myself experiencing it! At least I would be somewhat mentally prepared.

Thank you for the warning. I will definitely have to investigate this further.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Sorry, I thought you were of Chinese descent otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. To be honest, you would probably be fine. I have read stories about quite a few westerners who are ethnically asian and have gone over there on YMS visas, especially from Canada, and have found teaching work without a degree and without looking particularly western. It can be all about how you present yourself.

For the most part, they are lovely people too. I've been with a Japanese girl for a long time now and her friends and family have never made me feel anything less than truly welcome despite my limited language ability. People there seemed quite used to foreigners too unlike a lot of Seoulites in Korea, some of whom looked at me as though I was wearing a panda costume, smoking a joint and brandishing a blood stained meat cleaver.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

If i may offer you my comments and opinions:

1. My wife is from Atsugi in Kanagowa Prefecture. It isn’t Tokyo – its real Japan. You will find very few people who speak any English at all. Without my wife by my side I am stuffed in Kanagowa, whereas Tokyo is slightly more Westerner friendly (some signs in English, a few words are understood).

2. Kanagawa, being quite rural, has things like Asian squat public toilets. You get used to it. But it often doesn’t feel like a first world area. You see people working in rice fields etc.


3. You CANNOT teach English without a degree. End of story. Japan is incorruptible, and very strict. People will tell you that you can avoid the system. No degree no visa, no visa no job.

4. Japanese can be quite racist – especially older people, and in the more rural areas. My Parents in Law still find it hard to accept that their daughter married a gaigin. People will avoid me on the street, or just stare. They don’t mean anything by it, its just the way they are. I m different, and as such I do not conform and should be avoided.

5. The Japanese you meet outside of Japan are very different to the mainstream. Older less worldly Japanese are very rigid in outlook and attitude, although they can be extremely kind.

6. Kanagowa Prefecture isn’t near Tokyo, its 50Km direct as the crow flies from Tokyo. Its an even longer train ride, with quite a few stops. In the rush hour its not nice. My wife used to commute before we married. From memory 2 hours each way. To meet most English speaking expats you will need to go to Tokyo – probably Rapongi.

7. DigitalGhost is right about groping on the trains, it is seen as semi acceptable. The whole attitude to women is different to the West. It is still a very male dominated society. It doesn’t help that women never say no. (One thing my wife HAS lost).

8. Your husbands visa will only apply to him. You will not get a work permit on the strength of his visa, only a temporary resident (alien) visa. (Even married to a Japanese girl I am still classed as an Alien, although I can get a work permit.

9. DigitalGhost is spot on, its an odd society. Like some kind of “Alice through the looking glass” world, nothing seems quite right. You recognise everything, but nothing is what it seems. Attitudes are also very different. Drunkeness, male infidelity, sex, hostess bars, attitudes to work, are all very different to the West.

Having said all of the above, I love the place, and would recommend you go.

That “looking Glass” experience is amazing, and well worth experiencing. The fusion of technology and antiquity is amazing. You will see 1000 year old temples and technology that you can only dream of, and they will be side by side. The people can appear cold and unfeeling, and yet at the same time show incredible kindness and warmth. Taxis with powered opening rear doors, uniformed elevator girls in the big stores, ordering food on touchscreens in small Izakaya restaurants. The shops and beautiful girls in Shibuya. Its a huge experience.

I love Japan.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Yours and mine both and I'm not even married to mine yet. :lol:

I think it is the strict adherence to the rules which got me the most though. In some ways it's amazing in that they have a profound respect for the elderley and you won't see anybody under the age of 60 sat in the designated seats for the elderley and infirmed on the train, no matter how busy it is.

Like slapphead said though, discrimination can be rife and it's their country and you are supposed to abide by their rules. It is the only nation in the civilised world which makes a policy of imprisoning illegal immigrants as criminals before removing them, even in cases where a genuine error has been made. Their rules are definitely there to be obeyed without question too. I was in a Taito station in Akihabara with my gf and one of her best friends and accidentally wandered into an area designated for 'girls only', however it's worth mentioning that the sign stating that had been knocked over and was lying face down on the floor when I got there. Within an instant a small, irrate little woman was standing in front of me, brandishing the sign and basically giving me a look which could have burned a hole through my head and, without any doubt, suggested 'get out now'. She knew I was a foreigner from looking at me and had most likely guessed (as the Japanese tend to do) that I didn't have any knowledge of their language, but that didn't make any difference. In Japan, you obey or you leave.

The requirement for a degree for teachers is an immigration requirement too so I think if slapphead is correct (and he probably is) then you won't be able to work over there.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I am of Chinese descent, but only from my father's side. My mother is white British.

I wonder how many there were though and how skilled they were.

That is very fortunate. My own Asian family is 'atypical' due to the fact that they immediately accepted my white mother. I hear plenty of horror stories about racist Asian families unable to accept a non-Asian having relationships with any of their family members.

slapphead_otool - Thank you for your input.

Thank you for the warnings, but we would likely be in Yokohama, so I think it is unlikely we will encounter some of the things you mentioned.

Thank you for clearing things up. Any idea whether or not I can volunteer?

My husband experienced some of this (he's white). I don't know how I would fare as a half Asian, half white, but I've heard some rather unusual stories. My Japanese pen pal says I look quite Japanese, though this was a head-on photo. My nose is more western from a profile view. Any ideas as to how people would react to me?

I was made aware of this by others and it is worrying, though I'm sure that if I don't go out too late alone I will be able to deal with it. I've dealt with some rather severe harassment in the past. Then again, I've also heard that they are far more persistent because of the general attitude.

This is actually something that I would very much like to experience. One reason being because it is so different from everything I know.

When everyone follows the rules it can be a good thing (e.g. Both my husband and colleagues who've lived in/visited Japan have had very valuable goods returned to them without anything being stolen), but, from what both of you have said, I see it can also be a bad thing!

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Yokohama was the most westernised area of Japan which I visited in terms of layout and how open, relaxed and spacious it felt. I would say it was the only part of Japan which I could really see myself living in. It's easily commutable to/from Tokyo as well being only a 30-40 minute train ride from Ikkebukuro.

There are many stories of people who have landed in Japan without a degree and have done OK working in an Eikawa. You would need to present yourself well though and obviously obtain a working visa through some other means but by all accounts it isn't impossible as long as you have the correct immigration paperwork. In reality, you can understand why they do it as private foreign language students pay a lot for their lessons in Japan so they should be educated by a teacher who is at least half competent. I would say that you come across as being someone who would make a far better teacher than most of the fresh graduates which I have met though and you obviously have a skill for languages otherwise you wouldn't have been able to learn Kanjii in the way that you did.

I don't think that you would draw any attention there either, at least not negative anyway. Nobody really looked at me twice over there and I am tall even by western standards and have a Japanese partner. Tokyo, in particular, is very cosmopolitan and has a lot of foreigners living in it and I got used to hearing the occasional British, Canadian or American accent when walking around some of the better known areas.

For me, it's a country I could maybe live in for a couple of years I think, but no longer than that. As charming as parts of it are, it's maybe just a little bit too different for me I think and plus I know that my girlfriend could never really be happy if she was living back over there long term, although she does like to visit at least once every year or so.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Hi SesameBun and Digital Ghost,

Sorry Sesame, I made a mistake. When you said Kanagowa Prefecture I assumed, since you hadn’t explicitly said Yokahama, that you meant the more rural towns and cities of the Prefecture.

Yokahama (as you are probably aware) is a huge city and much more cosmopolitan. It has an amazing Chinatown for instance, where reputedly the best Chinese food in the world is on sale.:)

You will not feel as isolated in Yokahama as you would in the rural areas. My wife says don’t worry about it at all, you will have no problems.

Re looks and attitude – my wife actually looks more Chinese than the classic Japanese featured face (prominent chin, longer narrow face). Here in Sydney she sometimes gets mildly annoyed when Chinese shopkeepers speak to her in Mandarin. I suspect that your main problem will be the same thing – the Japanese will assume you speak the language. I doubt it will be an issue.

The people are strange, as both DigitalGhost and I have pointed out, but that is a large part of the charm. Even after 10 years with Misako ,she still amazes me several times a day with the things she does and says. :D

To give you some ideas take a read of Norikos Blog, about a Japanese girl in the US:

http://norikostale.wordpress.com/

DigitalGhost, I have the same problem as you. I would be happy to live in Japan for a few years. Misako, on the other hand, is happy to be out of there and has no desires to ever go back, other than annual holidays.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

A colleague who has lived in Japan recommended Yokohama and also said there was a large foreigner population there (which would make things easier).

I know there is one that employs people situated in Kanagawa prefecture, but if it is difficult to get a work permit unless you're applying for an English teaching job and yet they do not want the hassle of getting the work permit for you, it must be rather challenging! However, with the salary my husband would be getting it would be possible to finish my last year and it is an English-related degree. I think that would be the best course of action if I want to work.

I wonder though... If I am qualified (not through a university) to correct native English speakers' English, would that help me at all?

That's good to know.

It is funny that both of you say your Japanese partners could never live in Japan again. In the beginning I also said to my husband I could never live in Britain again!

I am sorry too. I should have been more specific from the beginning.

Yes, you're right: it does not sound like it will be an issue at all. It isn't difficult to explain that I am foreign and do not understand everything!

Thank you for the link to Noriko's blog! I think it would be even better if she wrote it herself. I've seen plenty of blogs from westerners living in Asia, but none from Asians living in the west. It would be interesting to see our world through their eyes.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

It is always interesting to see the world though my wife Misakos eyes.

She pretends to be Westernised, and yet whenever she moves out of her comfort zone she slips back into Japanese mode....

(I guess i am the same re England...)

I took her on holiday at Christmas to Vanuatu. She took a great deal of persuading to leave the resort, and was scared of even talking to the locals. She also has a Japanese type obsession with attending all of the organised activities.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Exactly the same here, my OH and I go out to eat Chinese or Korean food at lunchtime almost every Saturday (kind of like a weekly date sort of thing even though we have lived together for around 18 months now) and at first she was extremely annoyed when all of the restaurant staff spoke to her in Mandarin but now she's used to it and has realised that it even gets us a discount and different treatment in the restaurants.

She loves her family, her friends and where she came from but could never live in Japan again because of what is expected of her over there in terms of conformance and behaviour. For example she has tattoos which were done in Japan and she will quite happily show off in the west but she spent all of her time in Japan last year in long sleeves because when people see a girl with a tattoo over there they immediately assume the worst. Still, those little parts of her culture still pop out every day, most of her friends here in the UK are fellow Japanese, and I'm in the dog house usually if I say anything which could even be remotely understood as being slightly less than favourable about Japan or their culture.

I could live there but I think that it could only be for a year or two. Even though I work in IT my skills are not anything which would be considered outstanding yet and my limited Japanese ability would mean that all I could do there would be to teach English which I don't (no disrespect to anybody intended) honestly consider to be a real job, especially not as a long term option anyway.

SesameBun, if you finished your degree then the fact that it would be a BA in English would definitely help but it wouldn't really be a deciding factor in most Eikawa's going by the information I have seen on Gaijinpot etc.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Only in Japan.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-industry.html

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I always thought that this invention summarised some parts of Japanese culture brilliantly:

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/.../SkirtseGI.jpg

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Sorry to go off on a rant, but I feel similarly about the UK. Well, probably the west in general. I am naturally a shy person and rather easy-going (which is seen as being submissive since I'm okay with whatever anyone wants to do). I also try my best to be kind to others. For example, if I am getting a plastic bag for fruit/vegetables in the supermarket and I see someone is waiting behind me I will often pass it to them first before getting one for myself. I find that European and North American people in general assume me to be weak, stupid, pathetic, abnormal and a host of other negative things. I'm always told I should change the way I am. In a way I feel pressure to transform into an outgoing, bossy, demanding, self-centred bitch to be respected. I wouldn't know where I would be accepted and respected as I am, so it's something I try to live with: often being told my personality means there is something 'wrong' with me or getting pitying looks from those that think I'll cry if they tell me that.

To be honest, it isn't my dream job nor is it what I want to do for the rest of my life. It's more of a 'back up'. What I really want to do are creative pursuits. Writing being my first (and probably my easiest) choice. However, it isn't exactly a steady income unless you are also a journalist (not good at that) or get famous. I've tried to crack into the publishing world through other avenues, but there has been little success and people take ages to pay me (normal for that type of work) so it's not reliable either!

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I know what you mean, I've often felt like I can be a little too polite for my own good sometimes and I've never really been the type of person to make a lot of noise about myself or to try to draw attention and I'm usually uncomfortable around the type of people who are like that.

I actually wanted to be a journalist myself but I ended up going down the IT route in the end as journalism is a difficult and expensive career to pursue and the rewards in most cases are not great unless you are either extremely gifted or extremely lucky. The one problem with me though is that a lot of the things which most people in IT love and have a passion for, I couldn't really give a toss about, for example databases, programming and anything remotely web-related.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

How can you not have a passion for databases? Have you no love for SQL? Have you forsaken Oracle? No feelings for Teradata? :D

One on going mystery for me is how Japanese girls can appear submissive and yet get their way and have such hidden strength and fortitude. I have had several Japanese GF before I married Misako, and it was always the same. I felt I was in charge, but the outcome didn’t reflect that.

And I only have to see a girl in a Kimono to fall head over heels – yet my wife flatly refuses to wear any of her collection. (She did once, for an army Mess Dinner and the result was electric).

DigitalGhost, has your GF started managing your finances yet? Traditionally Japanese wives handle all money and give the husband “pocket money”. I swore it would never happen to me. Guess what……

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Not wishing to steal anyone's thunder, thought you might like a reply from someone living in Japan, Yokohama to be precise

1. What kind of visas would we need?
Your husband would get an intracompany transfereee visa most likely which would allow him to work obviously, whereas you would probably get a dependants visa. I say probably because there are rules and it depends on your circumstances (this *is*Japan ;) ) - - Anyway, a dependants visa means you would NOT be able to work

2. As a spouse, will I have permission to work? If yes, does anyone know the average requirements for teaching English either to young children or adults (I am currently studying TESOL, but have no degree)? Am I able to volunteer?

Maybe, see above.. dependant visas do not give you the ability to work, but if you can get a specialised visa then yes (http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/04.html)

In general most language schools will ask for a degree but little experience. My daughters English kindergarten employs some very inexperienced teachers. In sayng that I do know people who teach who havent got a degree but they have been here a while

You can volunteer, again there are lots of small conversation cafes, where JP students pay to chat with native speakers etc - In all this then generally The key however is NATIVE language skills,i.e they want people from UK, Aus, US etc.


3. I studied Japanese before ..... How much of a problem will this be and does anyone have any advice?

Its good that you know some Japanese, the more you know the easier it will be. The best advice is to just throw yourself in, talk to people in shops, order in restaurants and so on, you will soon pick up the listening skills. The most limiting factor is usually vocabulary so if you can read kanji then you have a head start

4. How difficult is it to get by with basic Japanese (I might have been good before, but I’m rusty now)? e.g. Do any products have other languages on them (English, French, Dutch, Spanish, German)? Does anyone there know English? How much English would the average English-speaker know? How willing are they to speak it? How willing are they to aid foreigners? I know my husband didn't have a lot of luck getting help when he went, but he's a 6'4" white man who tends to look rather angry when confused/lost, whereas I'm a 'cute' 5'2" half East Asian half white woman.

its not difficult. Most places have English signs now so travelling is easy and as above when talking, if you know the basics then you should be able to make yourself understood. True, most Japanese dont like speaking English but again there's a surprising high number that do understand very basic questions

5. Are there a lot of activities and places to explore in the area we would be living in (we know there will be in Tokyo, but it might not always be possible to go there)?

In short, yes. You can get anywhere here by train and Tokyo itself is a very big city with very big city things as you'd expect. Yokohama likewise, plenty to do here although my days seem to be taken up by shopping

6. How is the foreign community in and around Tokyo? For example, where we are now there is a network of foreigners and it is fairly easy to find a place to begin with whatever it is you need or want to do.

in a word, you wont have any problem. There are foreigners from everywhere here and various clubs, hangouts and so on. Depending on what you're into there will be others doing the same thing.. places to live with lots of foreigners include Roppongi, Hiroo in Tokyo, Yamate, and Minato Mirai in Yokohama. I can vouch for MM in Yokohama cos that where I live :) - depends on your budget of course and your lifestyle, but there are people (foreigners) living in all sorts of places

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

She has a go but at the moment she is still mostly living off her parents as she's a student where as I work full time and we obviously hold seperate bank accounts so we're not really 'there' yet. I know that if we got married and joint bank account was on the cards then she would definitely work her way in though but admittedly she is really good in that area.

She's good with accountancy and keeping records of things. I'm crap at that but fortunately I am very good when it comes to shopping around etc so it balances out. :)

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

They expect certain things from their own over there that Gaijin's are exempt from literally just because they are not Japanese.

One of her friends who lives in the UK now was telling me about how when she worked on the sushi bar at Harrods a middle aged Japanese woman came up to her demanding that she went to her hotel at LHR to pick up her credit card which she'd left there so that the woman's husband could pay for some toys they wanted. My gf's friend explained to her (in Japanese obviously) that she actually works in a different section and was due back on the counter to which the woman replied 'but your Japanese'. At this point my gf's friend politely told the woman to **** off and walked away, her point being that this isn't Japan and you can't behave like that or expect that sort of thing over here but in Japan, believe it or not, they do expect it.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I'd definitely agree with this but I am currently learning a little Japanese with my girlfriend each night at the moment just in case we do ever need to move there for a while. I was OK for most of my time there but I was only ever alone around Akihabara etc so I imagine that it could be quite difficult to live and work there with minimal language skills.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

"I'd definitely agree with this but I am currently learning a little Japanese with my girlfriend each night at the moment just in case we do ever need to move there for a while. I was OK for most of my time there but I was only ever alone around Akihabara etc so I imagine that it could be quite difficult to live and work there with minimal language skills."

Yes and no. Living here is relatively easy, I have a Tesco's next door, just about every western (UK) shop within a couple of mile radius and a 7-11, circle K on just about every street corner.. So we don't really want for things from 'back home' - the odd particular brand maybe, and the small sizes thing can be a bit frustrating - especially if the OP's hubby is 6ft4... may struggle to find shoes, clothes etc..

Anyway, socially, as I said there are plenty of people doing the things I do, so I can play sport, hang out, drink beer or spend the afternoon in my 'country club', whatever really - Being on your own isn't that daunting (especially with nifty gadgets like the iphone) - Maybe if you did get out in the sticks then it gets a bit harder, although a friend of mine lives in deepest darkest Chiba and he survives ok even being the only "gaijin" in the village, Another guy I know just moved out to Odawara (which is a kind of lifetime away from Tokyo although not far really) Anyway, he's loving the "ruralness" - To be honest its a lot easier than people think, although as the OP is Chinese (?) I'd have to say Hong Kong living wins by a little if you're familiar with there.

I do tend to agree with the language thing though in terms of work, most good jobs will want a 'business' level of Japanese (usually the JLPT2), why else do you think most foreigners are English teachers :) although if you can converse, read the newspaper etc then doors do open. The key is contacts, if you have them, it gets much easier, if you dont then it can be a long and tortuous road to employment

If you do come then, yes get as good at talking etc as possible. The rest of the quirks of living here you probably know already... it's certainly entertaining

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

Thank you for your input. :)

A company isn't sending him out there. He is applying for a scientific job. Judging by the link you've posted, it seems he would most likely get a researcher's visa.

I am from the UK.

I wonder, have any of you attempted to make friends with Japanese people? I would like to know your experiences.

I honestly didn't expect that!

He already has trouble in North America and Europe (unless we're in the Netherlands), but at least there is the odd store with tall people's clothing in North America. With me, it's the opposite way around... I have trouble finding things small/short enough with the correct proportions to not look ridiculous. Vanity sizing only makes things worse. Before we left North America I was magically getting slimmer without losing weight and I can no longer buy shoes my size in France!

I'm half Chinese, half British. Never been to China and my father didn't teach me the language, so you can basically consider me to be a funny-looking Brit. There is no job available in Hong Kong, but there is one in Beijing. However, my husband loathes cold weather and snow. :unsure:

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

"I wonder, have any of you attempted to make friends with Japanese people? I would like to know your experiences."

Well its interesting, if by "attempted" you mean have I gone out and tried to make friends etc then no. However, I (and We) have made Japanese friends through a variety or sources. One we have 2 children, one of who is at school, so mums being mums then there's the odd coffee morning (actually its more like every other day :)) - Two, my wife is Japanese so we have family around the place. Three I play a lot of sport (football/soccer), go to the gym etc... All of which leads to dinners, drinks and so on.. In some cases we've had people wanting to be our friends because I am English and they want to practice their language skills, sad but true :) - Same goes for our two little ones, JP parents want their kids to speak English so how better than to have their children play with ours etc.

Work wise then I have work acquaintances but not so much friends in that sense of the word.. We socialise etc and do work related stuff but theres only a couple (both non JP) that I'd probably want to spend any significant time with.

Most of my JP friends have come from playing football

This should be taken in the context of us visiting Japan since 2000 but only living here permanently for around 2 years and the fact that my language skills are limited, and most importantly I'm not a wild social animal - You can make friends here, or you could surround yourself with expats and English teachers from abroad - you'll see comments and opinions on various boards going either way, it really depends on whether you want to and how much effort/opportunity you have, but its definitely possible/likely

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbdru2
I have a Tesco's next door
I honestly didn't expect that!

oh expect more.. Tesco, Ikea, Next, GAP, Zara, H&M, Harrods, TGI Friday's, the list goes on - And when there aren't actual shops you can get the brands easily enough, Nike, Addidas and so on. plus theres lots of American stuff, Costco... Anyway, the point being you dont have to survive on sushi and noodles, if theres one thing Japan (& Yokohama and Tokyo in particular) is not short of, its shops.

Although, in extolling the extent of western shops here then I actually think that the Japanese ones (i.e the SOGO's of the world) are usually better

Quote:

He already has trouble in North America and Europe (unless we're in the Netherlands), but at least there is the odd store with tall people's clothing in North America. With me, it's the opposite way around... I have trouble finding things small/short enough with the correct proportions to not look ridiculous. Vanity sizing only makes things worse. Before we left North America I was magically getting slimmer without losing weight and I can no longer buy shoes my size in France!

I know what you mean about NL,, what do they put in the water, everyone's 8ft5 :) - Here, you'll have no trouble - think UniQuo

Quote:
I'm half Chinese, half British. Never been to China and my father didn't teach me the language, so you can basically consider me to be a funny-looking Brit. There is no job available in Hong Kong, but there is one in Beijing. However, my husband loathes cold weather and snow.

oh in that case, what do I know :)

I will say that we get weather here, we do cold and snow too. In fact when we moved from HK then that was one of my major gripes. August and it rained on and off for a month.. However, in truth the weather is actually ok, some of the mornings are just perfect, the air is clean and you can really appreciate life - on the flip side, some mornings I want to be back in HK in shorts and a tee-shirt at midnight... In general, 4 seasons, usually 3/4 degrees hotter than the UK. A couple of months of humidity in the summer,a couple of months of chilly in the winter. I have another friend who's just moved here from Beijing (4 years) and another who's going the other way. Neither of who has has cited 'weather' as a major improvement in their life so I guess its swings and roundabouts

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I have lived in Tokyo for many years. I am fluent in the language. I work in international finance, interact with Japanese people every day and 95% of that interaction is conducted in Japanese.

A lot of rubbish is talked about communication in Japanese. The written language is admittedly a tremendous chore to learn but if you have time that is all it is: a chore and an exercise in rote memorisation. If 120m Japanese people can read it, it can't be that hard can it? Still, it's more complex and irritating than written Chinese. Conversely, the spoken language is simple in a way that most spoken forms of Chinese are not (talking about tones here rather than grammatical structure). I did many years of French and Japanese is far simpler: verb forms are dead easy - no lists of irregulars to remember! - and the lack of structure works in one's favour: misplacing pronouns or the equivalent is less of a problem than it would be in, say, English.

So, if you have any linguistic ability at all - and let's face it speech is sorta fundamental to human existence - you should pick up Japanese fairly quickly. Like any language it requires effort. Statistically speaking, most people would prefer to sit in front of the TV with their mouth half-open rather than devote time and energy to something that could perhaps change their life.

Another contributory factor is that most Westerners in Japan are male (I would estimate that women account for less than 10% of the total, particularly when one gets outside the category of English teachers) and unsurprisingly these men date Japanese women who speak English. Those women that don't speak English tend not to date non-Japanese men because they can't communicate. Logical enough, I think. The consequence is that many Western men have no incentive to learn Japanese. Their GF or wife acts as a buffer and interpreter of Japanese society, helps them with day-to-day tasks and so on. This has the twin effects of isolating and in a way emasculating many gaijin men - they are dependent on a woman to do things that any self-respecting man would do himself.

More than the language, I would say that you're likely to have problems with integration, or lack thereof. You will never be accepted into Japanese society on equal terms or anything like that. I personally do not care to belong to that particular grouping so it's not an issue. I have found that most of my social interaction is with couples consisting of a Japanese woman and a Western man and other international couples. If you have young children that tendency will be strengthened as you will meet other parents as a matter of course.

Finally, Japan is a big country with a lot to see and do. If you live here you owe it to yourself to get out there and use a splendid public transport network to experience the best that the country can offer. The only caveat is that it tends to be expensive. In terms of climate winters tend to be cold and bright (this year has not been so good) and summers horribly hot and humid although at least we do get the seasonal shift in October to cooler weather. Spring is beautiful.

I have brought friends to Japan in the past. They have always arrived with a mixture of disinterest and trepidation and they have always left babbling with enthusiasm. It's not what you expect, even when you think you know what to expect.

D

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

So people will come up and talk to a gaijin then (even if only for the English practice). Then again, neither of us is Japanese so it may be a bit different.

Neither of us are terribly social, but we have some good friends here and those who are against us going to Asia always use the 'social' aspect to discourage us from going.

I knew about most of those, but for some reason Tesco in Japan seems odd. Don't ask me why!

I love sushi and noodles! I was actually very annoyed that they do not stock more Asian food in the stores here in France.

As long as the winter isn't 6 months long with a blizzard every fortnight! We had that in Canada and he was utterly miserable. He thinks he has a bit of seasonal affective disorder.

Thanks for responding to my post.

Ah, so I am not the only one then! Most people look at me like I'm mad if I say I found Japanese simpler than French. I think many get put off by the fact you have to learn three 'alphabets': hiragana, katakana and kanji.

I put plenty of effort in when I first learnt it, so I don't think that will be a problem.

He will definitely be dependent on me in the beginning as I know far more Japanese than he does. However, he is very keen on learning the language if we do go.

My husband loves hot and humid. Except for when he's trying to sleep, then he hates it. :lol:

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I stayed in Japan in 1997 with a Japanese penfriend for 3 months. I'd previously done a month or so of evening classes (basic / beginner's Japanese), spent the whole plane journey with my head in a ("Teach Yourself Japanese" by Berlitz) book, and by the time I returned to the UK I was at GCSE level.

I stayed in a small village called Obuse-Machi near the town of Nagano, in the Japanese Alps. So in the country basically, very rural (albeit with the compulsory Japanese alcohol vending machines on the street corners, lol!). My host family were landscape gardeners and spoke very little English, but my penfriend spoke better English than I did Japanese.

I found that the local banks spoke English, particularly in Nagano (I had to change some travellers' cheques there) and when we went on a day trip to Tokyo most people knew a spattering of English (presumably for business purposes - Tokyo being the business hub of the country, obviously). But even at the beginning when I only knew a few basic words, everyone was so impressed by my efforts to speak it, even if I repeated the same phrases again and again because they were the only thing I knew how to say, lol!

So basically what I'm saying is (and I know my experience is very dated - hopefully someone will come along soon who's been there more recently) you sound like a linguist so will pick it up easily - I was immersed in the language and picked so much up just simply because nobody in the family (except my penfriend) spoke English, so I HAD to - and even at the beginning when you're struggling, people are patient and will accept your mistakes. So long as you try.

The Japanese are the friendliest, most sincere nation I have ever known, and they see the good in everybody (I'm only speaking from my experience of course - I didn't meet a single person who contradicted my perception of the Japanese). They're very honest too - I (stupidly) left one of my many bags on the platform at Ueno station and when I went back it was stil there - nobody had even considered taking it! And this is before the days of suicide bombers and backpack bombs, by the way.

On the tube (chikatetsu) however, people will blank you and pretend you're not there. They all stand tall and look straight ahead (maybe this is the same in London? I wouldn't know) and even close their eyes. They don't mean to be rude, it's actually their way of being polite - they don't like to stare you in the eyes from 4 inches away (you're crammed in tight in those carriages - they even have people there to 'pack' you in, lol).

Plus, I bet more people will speak English there now as this was going back 13 years...

Best of luck with whatever you decide - if you make the move you'll love it, but be prepared for one HUGE culture shock!

Anita :thumbsup:

PS - They also use kanji in Japanese, but also 2 other writing systems (Hiragana - for Japanese words, and Katakana - for western / foreign words). Most signs were in Kanji, Hiragana and also Romanji (our writing). Particularly in Tokyo, although I can't remember if the tube stations were written in Romanji in those days... I seem to remember trying to match some characters up to see if I was at the right station (!) but nowadays they'd all be in Romanji too, I have no doubt.

Re: Questions About Immigrating to Japan
 

I can't help but agree. We've just come back from Tokyo and Yokohama and were bowled over by how friendly and helpful people were to us.

I'm not quite so sure I agree with this. I can't speak for the business world, but in hospitality you rarely get more than a few basic words in English. In social settings I rarely met anyone who speaks (or is willing to speak) any English.

The subway stations also have signs in Romaji. The JR stations have electronic signs that show names in hiragana, kanji, romaji, and Chinese and Korean script.

It has been a while since I was in Japan. I was there a lot in the 80s and 90s but mostly in the Kansai. One thing I noticed this trip was that nobody seemed to care that I am a foreigner. In the 80s people would stare and point. School children would collapse in embarrassed giggles and shout "gaijin, gaijin." Nobody would sit next to me on a train. In 2010 nobody gave me a second look. It's much better.