Juvefan

so after reading this forum for years, and of course living in England, and being Italian, I think it's fair to say, the British and the Italians love to whine.

I mean seriously, think about it for a second.

some Brits on here whine about Italy, all the BS living here and dealing with Italians etc. but then you get the Italians in England and USA who do the same thing not to mention the italians and Brits who do it in their own countries too.

so the point is, is England, or Italy really that bad? I mean there is no perfect place on Earth. but just because life in Italy didn't work out for you, or you daily compare it to how you were brought up back in England really isn't a fair assessment of the country or it's people.
Do Italians Complain about the same things we complain about living in Italy?

my question is this.

To the Expats who call Italy home, to the expats who whine about Italy and compare it to England and complain that in England blar blar blar.

what stops you from returning home? I mean seriously.
my father a hardcore Italian complained in every country we lived in. but never took an action and returned to Italy. we think he just liked to complain like all the other Italians I met growing up LOL.

so does the good out weight the bad living in Italy ?

Garbatellamike

Yes for me

Good post

Lorna at Vicenza

I think the generic good points of Italy are more or less the same for everybody. Food, fruit, veg, the weather, the guarantee of some good sunny weather. I could say history and culture, but unless you have time to travel and explore, you don't see a lot of Italy apart from your own region. I also think this was truer when we had the Lire and not Euro. Italy has become a harder and harder place to live.

I could say most expats miss the same things - fish & chips, real Ale, gravy, a great Sunday Roast. Italians miss pizza, famiglia, talking Italian.

Have we all learnt to adapt? Yes, in one way or another.
Do we all miss something from home? yes
Do we all love something about where we live now? Yes
Is is enought to drive us all back? Perhaps not.

It's a topic that has come up before. How do you define happy and accepted - or just happy? I was happy in my day to day life here until some twat commented on my English to my kids and how it wasn't good and we're in Italy..... (parli Italiano dio can !) I was happier when my Italian was good enough to reply and set certain people straight. I was happy many other days until the fridge broke. The fridge could break in England too. I can tell straight away when an Italian in York speaks to me in English in a pizzeria. Does the fact that they have never ever learned to speak English properly mean that they are not happy?

All those Italo Americans with 3rd, 4th and 5th generation Italian Grandpas and still claim to be Italian. They think they are 100% Italian despite the fact that they have Americanised Giuliana to GEE UU LEE ANA and the name Luciano has become LOO-SEE-ANO. And they have abbreviated everything so that prosciutto and mozzarella becomes prociutt e mozzarell.
Risotto is riz-oat-oh and bruschetta is brushetta. Do I laught at those pronunciations? I might not laugh in person but I do bitch at the TV when I hear this stuff. I bitch because now I know better and I bitch when I hear so called world chefs still say G-nokey and not gnocchi.

I think Italians that have lived in the UK for 30 years should know to say park the car and not Italianise or dialect it into "parkare la car".

I think I could go on and on and on but perhaps I should shut up and go to bed.

See ya folks xxx

Lorna at Vicenza

Oh --- and to answer your question ........


yes I bitch, yes I moan about schools, about jobs, about other Italians.
What stops us from returning home is not always our own point of view or our own singular wishes.

I have 2 kids in school here. I personally hate most of their teachers' attitudes to education and I hate the negative spin they put on it. Castigo, note nel registro etc. Was my education better, more rounded? I believe so.

Do my kids have a good, relaxed social life in the little town sqaure, il quartiere, la piazza, il mercato? Yes. Do they have good friends who are for the most part good, responsible kids? Yes. Are there plenty of teenage drunk, promiscuous, pregnant girls in the UK? Yes. I know this isn't everywhere, but it IS there.

Does my husband have a job here? Yes. He has a contratto indeterminato.
Has he been offered jobs in the UK? Yes. At what wage? And can he get fired tomorrow? Yes - in the UK he can.

Would we get benefits in the UK? Yes - eventually.
What do we get in Italy? Not even a smile sometimes?
Do we still live here? Yes.
Why? Because sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

Isakat

Lorna, you said it all

Juvefan

very good points Lorna
I agree with you, I think it's very true, also we all get stuck into a life cycle and it's not easy to just pack up and leave either.
That becomes a very hard task to just pack up and go back home.
also the word home becomes confusing for many who have lived outside of their countries for 10 years because now it's like.
ummmm yes I am from England or where ever, but I have lived here 10 years now, I feel this is my home.

so packing up everything you know here and moving back to an idea of how life was when you grew up is also a HUGE move, because deep down we all know life back home is not gravy either. MANY PROBLEMS, just like any place.
I guess also it depends where you live back home and where you live in your new country, how safe you feel in your surroundings, your neighbours, your community, the safety of the district, your friends, all those things play a huge part in your life.

for me, I live abroad, away from a home I once knew, but I have been away so long now I really feel like a foreigner from there too. I have lived here for 15 years now, this is all I know, and I am a foreigner here.I will never be from here, or I can say I am from here.
my wife asks me all the time, (she is from here) to leave, to go back to my country, or move to another country if I hate it so much here.
I tell her, I don't hate it here! I like it here I feel safe here, I know here, comfort zone I guess, afraid a little to start again.
she replies.. "then why do you criticize, complain, and compare all the time??"

I guess I am just bored and I am very observant and like to pick out the wrong, I can't help it,
so of course my wife says, but you don't do that in your country!!
I say, well I am sure, I will find myself doing it back in my country too after a few years, I think that's human nature.
we were educated to problem solve , so I step outside daily and see mistakes from my local council, I see the rubbish on the street, look around see no rubbish bins, I walk further down the street, I see grass uncut, and weeds growing, making the area look dirty, I think to myself, why? how much do the politicians make? why can't they take a 1% pay cut and hire a worker to work the lawns daily in this city? 1 guy could be employed and take care the grass 5 days a week and we wouldn't have this problem.
I mean I can go on and on and on.. whats wrong with this country, the world etc..
my wife says I need to stop analyzing everything and stop complaining about everything.
she says, if you hate it so much, go home.
problem is, it's not really paradise home either.
just a different set of problems.

ononno

All I can really say to all of this is that life has become too serious to be taken seriously. We all need to lighten up somehow. Switch off the news. Don't read the Daily Wail. Whatever.
ciao for now,
'o nonno

covboy

I live in Naples its a sh*t hole,

loves =my Italian wife and the heat

hates =the chaos ,dirty streets,useless reckless drivers, endless mind numbing bureaucracy ,loud mouthed Neopolitan hags who seem to think everyone else wants to hear their domestic disputes through their open windows as you walk down the street,oh and as mentioned elsewhere the most detesable of all thieving toll Booths
Apart from that lifes great here

Juvefan

hahahahhah nice..

now can you name 5 just as bad things about your country which make you crazy?

not2old

good - I think its common place for ex-pats to whinge - that's what makes them ex-pats - bless them all

How many times in every language do you hear ... back home this,that & the other, the weather, the people are rude, they are, slow, lazy, dirty, smelly, they don't have tea or coffee or cook food like back home.

If the ex-pats didn't whinge they'd have nothing to live for IMO

ononno

I don't, but know it like the back of my hand, and visit frequently VFR.
If you are going to survive any length of time in Naples then you need to focus on its good points. Visited Capodimonte yet? or Santa Chiara? or the national Library and Royal Palace? The National Museum,an evening at San Carlo, or a Pizza at Santa Lucia?
As far as other points raised by OP are concerned; then Italy has given me a lovely extended family, a new culture, and a successful business career. I hate the phrases 'un documento per favore' and ' ci vuole una legge per....' and all that those phrases imply.
In the UK I miss my extended family there although I have Skype which helps keep in touch (can't travel much anymore), but hate the benefits culture that has taken hold, and the general 'booze'culture whicxh also seems to be promoted by most soaps etc. Never see a bleeding episode without it seeming perfectly normal/natural to get 'bladdered' as they call it.
Enjoy what you have,
'o nonno

LivingHere

It's not always about being in another country. When I lived in the south of england I missed chip shop onion gravy.

covboy

Oh yeah forgot to say i miss Readybrek but i bought about 20 boxes with me after a run back to uk last week

Isakat

And the checkout girl thought you are one of those people who stockpile food getting ready for the Armageddon?

mikethomo

I don't miss much about the UK . But the way some things are done in Italy just begger belief. I have had residency for some time although I had the carta identia I did not get a certificate at the time for some reason. I needed the certificate so went back to the commune to get it, ok no problem go the tabbaci to get a 16 euro stamp go back have the certificate stamped and told to return in a month to get the cert. One month or so later return to get original cert , told go march up the street again to get yet another 16e stamp, totally beyond me if someone could enlighten me it would be nice. Sometimes the faffing about is unbelievable.