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Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Old Sep 15th 2010, 11:27 am
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In view of a) it being Antonia's first day, but not at this school, in Prima Classe and b) everyone elses experiences and ours at the end of last term when she hated materna, I'm remaining cautiously optomistic....

All the text books were in a pack on each desk and we then got a list of all the stationery we needed and a few other bits and pieces. She seemed happy, no tears for the first time in 2 years! They've already done a bit of drawing which she got a 10 for so I think we can say this Nun is happy to reward! They have her for the next 5 years too, so other than specialised classes we kind of know what we are getting - she has a good reputation in the school as a whole... We shall see...
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Old Sep 15th 2010, 12:14 pm
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I'm glad Antonia had a good day Testa. Hope it carries on... I have to say that mostly for Julia it is all good really too. She get's good marks and sometimes it's just some of the things in general that are a bit 'surprising' to me....

I've noticed a load of bitching around the institute in general this year though. There was nearly an accident last year at the Scuola Media where a boy almost fell through a window on the 4th floor of the building as the window frame was rotten when they got pushed against it. The windows are at least 30years old. They have therefore been replaced over the summer and the outside of the building has been partially painted too. However the classes inside are terrible. I've loads of little snipes about how we pay all this money and yet the only place painted nicely is the Presida's office!! Also other things like the crowds outside the gates of parents and how it just isn't properly organised and the school thinks we're all ignorant etc.. there definitely seems to be an air of discontent about the place.... perhaps more groups of parents will be taking legal action....
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Old Sep 15th 2010, 3:59 pm
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H was just telling me how he had an English lesson today and told his new teacher he was English at which point she broke into English and he actually had a conversation with her! He said the rest of the kids were gob-smacked and he actually felt proud about being English for a change and that he CAN do something that the other kids can't do. Apparently one boy asked to go to the loo and the teacher said 'ask Harry how to say it in English and then you can ask me and you can go.' I remember my French teacher at school doing that to us too! Maybe things WILL be better for him this year.
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Old Sep 15th 2010, 8:54 pm
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Originally Posted by indiebird
H was just telling me how he had an English lesson today and told his new teacher he was English at which point she broke into English and he actually had a conversation with her! He said the rest of the kids were gob-smacked and he actually felt proud about being English for a change and that he CAN do something that the other kids can't do. Apparently one boy asked to go to the loo and the teacher said 'ask Harry how to say it in English and then you can ask me and you can go.' I remember my French teacher at school doing that to us too! Maybe things WILL be better for him this year.
I'm sure this is going to be a good year for H and I think we'd all agree that he deserves it
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 7:41 am
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Hi Lorna, I really do hope you sort it for Chloe. I hated school and it is dreadful when you are scared of your teacher. My mum never said boo to my teachers I just counted down the years till I could leave.

If your headteacher had any experience with English schools I guess he would be ashamed of his own school.

My OH taught in English schools when we married in the UK. Since we moved here she has taught in 4 different Junior schools and she gets so frustrated with the lack of resources. She uses her own laptop with the children and she provides her own tape recorder etc. for listening exercises.

This year she doesn't have a class but she is supposed to help 2 children that have special needs. Yesterday she was asked if she could work 4 extra hours to support a teacher. She agreed but when she turned up for class to support the teacher, the teacher had gone home. A colleague told my OH that the teacher had decided that if my OH was there she wasn't needed.

Needless to say my OH blew a fuse and is going to have a word today

Anyway Good luck with Chloe's school.
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 7:58 am
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Originally Posted by TestaRossa
In view of a) it being Antonia's first day, but not at this school, in Prima Classe and b) everyone elses experiences and ours at the end of last term when she hated materna, I'm remaining cautiously optomistic....

All the text books were in a pack on each desk and we then got a list of all the stationery we needed and a few other bits and pieces. She seemed happy, no tears for the first time in 2 years! They've already done a bit of drawing which she got a 10 for so I think we can say this Nun is happy to reward! They have her for the next 5 years too, so other than specialised classes we kind of know what we are getting - she has a good reputation in the school as a whole... We shall see...
I'm really glad she liked her first day too. I think it makes a big difference. It's quite a mental and physical jump for the kids from materna to primary and a lot of teachers seem to have forgotten this - unfortunately.

Originally Posted by indiebird
H was just telling me how he had an English lesson today and told his new teacher he was English at which point she broke into English and he actually had a conversation with her! He said the rest of the kids were gob-smacked and he actually felt proud about being English for a change and that he CAN do something that the other kids can't do. Apparently one boy asked to go to the loo and the teacher said 'ask Harry how to say it in English and then you can ask me and you can go.' I remember my French teacher at school doing that to us too! Maybe things WILL be better for him this year.

Thank God somebody at last appreciates his English and isn't mocking it. I'm so glad Harrison felt proud for a change.

Originally Posted by Pecora Nera
Hi Lorna, I really do hope you sort it for Chloe. I hated school and it is dreadful when you are scared of your teacher. My mum never said boo to my teachers I just counted down the years till I could leave.

If your headteacher had any experience with English schools I guess he would be ashamed of his own school.

My OH taught in English schools when we married in the UK. Since we moved here she has taught in 4 different Junior schools and she gets so frustrated with the lack of resources. She uses her own laptop with the children and she provides her own tape recorder etc. for listening exercises.

This year she doesn't have a class but she is supposed to help 2 children that have special needs. Yesterday she was asked if she could work 4 extra hours to support a teacher. She agreed but when she turned up for class to support the teacher, the teacher had gone home. A colleague told my OH that the teacher had decided that if my OH was there she wasn't needed.

Needless to say my OH blew a fuse and is going to have a word today

Anyway Good luck with Chloe's school.
Thanks Pecora. I don't deliberately go out of my way to argue with people. I have always taught my kids the importance of education and respect but when too much is too much and when it verges on bullying I won't keep quiet. I think far too many Italian parents have been scared for too long of speaking up. The teachers think they are on some kind of pedestal just for being a teacher whether they are good or crap at teaching and nobody is checking on them, their methods or their behaviour with the kids.
I also firmly believe in an all round education and not just the academic side of it which is all they do in the schools here. It seems to be all about the books and homework most of the time and not much else. Some of the parents here have started to voice their opinions a little bit after seeing that I haven't been struck down by a bolt of lightening so far but more and more of them need to find a voice.

I will not let them threaten my child and reduce her to tears over something trivial. I hate the way they "attack" the kids in the classroom and write nasty notes. Why didn't the teacher just get in touch with me and ask ME first if there was a reason why Chloe didn't finish her maths? She has no idea what might have happened over the holidays. Chloe could have had a broken wrist and been incapable of writing - she could have been in hospital etc. The teacher didn't ask Chloe either why she hadn't finished every last sum - she just laid into her straight away.

Good for your wife for not letting the teachers shit on her
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 8:01 am
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Pecora - your wife deserves a medal To go from teaching in England to teaching here is such a big step backward - not meaning your wife of course but the resources/facilities/support etc as you say. She must be so very frustrated but also determined ( i think you have to be to survive here in that profession) Hope she gives that teacher a rollicking
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 9:00 am
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Day 2- hauled Antonia's bag up to class on the third floor. Just hoping it comes back emptier! No weekday hwk so it should...we shall see! Unable to cover the PHSE booklet - not to worry said nunny! Keeping fingers still crossed!
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 9:41 am
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[QUOTE=Lorna at Vicenza;8852221]
. The teachers think they are on some kind of pedestal just for being a teacher whether they are good or crap at teaching and nobody is checking on them,

The teacher pedestal is very true. My wife is always addressed as Maestra by parents and the local shop keepers as soon as they found out she was the local teacher. They only call her by her name when she asks them to....

In Sicily my wife bumped into an old teacher of hers. Someone she hadn't seen for 20 years and she said " hello Maestra...... He responded curtly Sono Professore! Because he was a senior school teacher. Boh

And as you know doubt know most of the English teacher struggle to hold a conversation in English
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by Patty
Pecora - your wife deserves a medal To go from teaching in England to teaching here is such a big step backward - not meaning your wife of course but the resources/facilities/support etc as you say. She must be so very frustrated but also determined ( i think you have to be to survive here in that profession) Hope she gives that teacher a rollicking
My Oh has decided this year not to let the teachers put on her, so she is going to start off the year taking no nonsense from the other teachers. I think she will play hell today. Tonight I will make her a cup of tea and let her "strop" and get it out of her system.
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 10:02 am
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Originally Posted by Pecora Nera
My Oh has decided this year not to let the teachers put on her, so she is going to start off the year taking no nonsense from the other teachers. I think she will play hell today. Tonight I will make her a cup of tea and let her "strop" and get it out of her system.
You wouldn't mind if those teachers knew what a full day of work was but I've got no sympathy for a full time wage for part time hours and a bloody good pension at the end of it!! Good on your wife for sticking up for herself. If she doesn't noone else will. I've got teachers who live up my road she's often home by midday WITH shopping from the Supermarket which is 20minute drive away and yet she's supposed to be a full-time teacher?? Wtf????
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 12:47 pm
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[QUOTE=Pecora Nera;8852435]
Originally Posted by Lorna at Vicenza
. The teachers think they are on some kind of pedestal just for being a teacher whether they are good or crap at teaching and nobody is checking on them,

The teacher pedestal is very true. My wife is always addressed as Maestra by parents and the local shop keepers as soon as they found out she was the local teacher. They only call her by her name when she asks them to....

In Sicily my wife bumped into an old teacher of hers. Someone she hadn't seen for 20 years and she said " hello Maestra...... He responded curtly Sono Professore! Because he was a senior school teacher. Boh

And as you know doubt know most of the English teacher struggle to hold a conversation in English
I think that it's considered normal here for anyone who is working to be called by their "work title" and most italians (at least here in the South) love and want to be called by their title. I get called "dottoressa" just because I work in a bank (I HATE it !) My italian colleagues seem to almost demand it. The most ridiculous of all is "presidente" - even if someone's been "president" of a tinpot organisation for a few months they keep the title for life ! The use of a title instead of a name is usually accompanied by the arrogance that even small children, like Lorna's daughter, have to suffer ... and leads to the belief that writing a note with a red felt tip to another adult is normal and acceptable behaviour.
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 5:32 pm
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So true Dina (or should I say dotterressa )
I was referred to as professoressa recently - I had to bite my lip to stop myself from guffawing ! I only teach English cos there isnt anything else I can find and I am definitely not a professoressa. But it is rather irritating this kind of arrogance with titles. The one that gets me is that alot of people have the title dottore but its nothing to do with medicine. I always imagine a scene where someone is in an accident and the usual person pipes up ' is there a doctor in the house' ? - in Italy about 40 people would come forward
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 5:44 pm
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Episode Two.

I almost doubted my own sanity today. When picking the kids up I saw a couple of Chloe's teachers chatting with another two near the school gates so I asked Chloe if maestra Monica was in there. When she pointed her out to me I told her to wait in the park for me with her brother and their friends while I went and asked when Monica kindly had 10 minutes to talk to me this week.

Monica - "This is about you going to the headmaster isn't it?"

Me - It's more about Chloe's tears, her state of mind and the threatened mark of 5 over holiday work.

None of the other teachers moved away to give us any privacy but I knew they wouldn't.

"I didn't set the homework you know! I wasn't Chloe's maths teacher last year." (in fact she previously taught geography though I suppose she must be qualified to teach both)

- I know you weren't, but you're the one who's scaring her now and making her cry over 60 or so maths problems.

"There are 45 problems."

- Sorry but there are more - at least 60.

"There are 45!"

- That's just not true.

Monica shook her head at me and in a muttered aside to the Italian teacher she said "I don't believe it. Is this woman really questioning my abilities?"

I heard her and it was on the tip of my tongue to reply .... well you can't bloody spell. Maybe you can't count either !!!!! but I was prevented from answering by the Italian teacher joining in and telling me that I really shouldn't have gone to the head as it's better to speak directly to the teachers about things that happen in class. I told them all that I went to the head to ask about the legal side of things and the rules about holiday homework and that I didn't go there to tell tales on a teacher as I'm not that petty. I went to him trying to get some proper answers on the way things work here.

Monica said "you should still have come to speak to me first. That homework was important. Do you know how many kids had private tutors and extra lessons over the summer holidays to get up to level and work through the homework?"

- Oh God, here we go again talking about other people's kids. I don't care about those other kids. Chloe didn't need any extra tuition or lezioni di recupero but I still feel that she is being penalised over something that I do not believe is a legal obligation.

"It's in the ordinamento scolastico."

- Well, if and when you find it, you can show it to me because I have found nothing - until somebody can prove otherwise, Chloe won't have time to finish this maths on top of the normal homewrok - which I have never argued about and which she has always done every single day.

"So what do you expect us to tell other kids if they stand up and say 'beh Chloe never finished hers but I did so why is she different'?"

- I'm sorry I don't know. It was never my intention to put you in this position and I don't agree with favouritism which probably sounds like a lie seeing as I am here arguing Chloe's case. I didn't and still don't believe that this amount of holiday homework is legally binding and it is my fault that Chloe didn't finish it. I honestly believed she'd done enough and her father and I told her to relax a bit. Other parents that have a problem with the homework this year can come and speak for themselves.

At this point Chloe and Alex came up to me and Alex said, "Mummy, when are we going home because I'm starving?" So I bid the teachers good day and told them I was taking my hungry kids home to feed them.

As soon as Chloe's dad got in I gave him her book and asked him to count out how many maths exercises he could count on the photocopied list of work to do. He got 62 as I did. I checked the list again against the workbook and discovered that exercise 2A on page 235 was actually a list of 4 long divisions and there were others like that too which actually brings the total of sums to a lot more than the 62 we originally counted and so much more than the teacher's professed 45 !!!!!!!!!!!!


Honestly !!!!!!!!!!! My mind was whirling. If you google "compiti per le vacanze" there are thousands of hits that come up and lots of parents complaining but not at the idea of a bit of homework but at the ridiculous amounts most kids seem to be getting these days. I found quite a few articles about some lawyer that even went on TV saying that it's against a student's constitutional rights to have holiday homework. And back in the 60's there was already a 'circolare ministeriale" written saying that students were not to be given homework that had to be done and handed in on a day that followed a rest day (like a Sunday or a bank holiday) which in my book means ......... you can't give homework out on Saturday and insist it has to be done and handed in on Monday because Sunday is a rest day. Just like if May 1st falls on a Wednesday, you can't give out homework on Tuesday and expect it on Thursday.

I am collecting ammunition for any future disagreements.


Indie - I am sorry I wasn't more sympathetic when you were up against all H's teachers in his years at the primary. My only excuse is that apart from a few snide comments from the teachers here and a few smart answers from me - I never had to really fight out any battles for my kids until now.
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Old Sep 16th 2010, 5:53 pm
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Lorna my lovely you were very sympathetic to all my woes but I know where you're coming from it's just a great big nonsense isn't it?? I'm waving each afternoon at Harrison's old teachers as sport as Miss Sparkly is still blanking me. I don't really give a f**k what they think of me anymore but I won't be accused of being unfriendly... I think they're way too scared of me to do anything else to me or my kids (I've a big gob and bad Italian) now. It's horrible when you're in it though and I've also got nothing to suggest to you either as it's all a big Farce... the sad thing is... these people are being paid by us to educate our kids!!!
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