Gio

How utterly disgusting & what a position to find yourself in Indie. It sounds like you have no choice but to turn the cheek and let it go.

indiebird

The thing that worries me is that with how I'm feeling now I am likely to go and pull her around by the ear if I see her. If there are other members of the class around so much the better.... and who do you think would be getting a visit from the Caribineri then eh?? :curse::curse:

clint

Indie sorry to hear that this happened, the woman needs sorting out badly, she is a disgrace to her profession.

I was talking to a Croatian friend of mine last night and she confirmed a few thing that I had already found reference to on the net. She has 2 children the youngest was born in Italy but the eldest one in Croatia. Firstly there should be a support figure for foreign children and their family to help them integrate into the school system, in her school a small village school there are 3 support teachers that do that, they help the children with extra Italian lessons and all other general stuff. She told me that just recently 2 romanian children have joined the school and they are getting the same help as the other foreign children before them.

I also asked her if she had heard of any teacher using any kind of physical punishment and she said no and that under no circumstances teachers are allowed to physically punish children and should this happen to take the child to a children psychologist get a report and go to the preside with it telling her to sort this teacher out immediately failure to do so will result in a denuncia to the Carabinieri.

In my friend's school the support figure for foreign children is the support teacher but in the laws I find reference to is called "mediatori lingustici e culturali" these are the laws that refer to the support figure (Legge n. 40 del 6 marzo 1998 e n. 189 del 30 luglio 2002

Take a look at this link (it is in Italian and if you need help with translating happy to do that for you)
http://www.pubblica.istruzione.it/ne...cm24_06all.pdf

The points to look at are

No: 3. La normativa come risorsa where it says that various guidlines have been issues to help the integration of foreing children.

II parte – Indicazioni operative:

2. Come accogliere gli alunni stranieri nella scuola

6. I mediatori linguistici e culturali: that's the bit about the support figure

I hope this helps

37100

Sadly this is only a 'linea guida' and not law. I think the school made a huge mistake in the first place by not placing indi's son a year down. As his birthday is at the end of the school year it would made little difference to him in that the others would have still been close to him in age, but educationally he would have got the benefit of more Italian. The physical abuse is an entirely different matter and I'm sure Indi is having sleepless nights over what to do.

indiebird

Thanks Clint for that info. I've never heard of one of those people. There is a special needs teacher of sorts (and tbh I think in UK schools it would be the SEN coordinator that has the job of finding and giving help to foreign children and their parents) but she and my son never got on at all and she gave up. I think there has somehow been a communication breakdown somewhere but I don't know where. We took a friend with us at meetings at the beginning and I think that the teachers may think we don't care because we have resolutely left him in school and our speaking to him hasn't solved anything. Also our friend, although Italian, has no kids of her own and so I'm not sure if what we said or they said was translated in a way that we could understand everything in the way it was intended. If you see what I mean. The 'Sportello di Ascolto' is open on a tuesday by the looks of it which is when my kids swim so don't know how I'm going to be in 2 places at once. My first port of call is going to be my friend, the ex Presida. Teacher from hell is off in monday. My language school have been really helpful to others so I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to point me in the right direction of some help.

I'm a bit confused though, as the other class teacher wrote me a lovely note yesterday in reference to a grammar book I purchased for Harrison on the advice of the libreria after confiding in her that we all find grammar difficult when I went to buy the grammar dictionary that the teacher had recommended. The note expressed what a good decision it was to help him with his grammar and she will use it to give him lots of practice in what he needs to catch up on. I'm a bit stumped cos last year I actually wrote a note to her telling her that he had difficulties and could she suggest a book or some exercises and I figured that as I didn't hear back it wasn't seen as necessary.... is it me or am I missing something??!!

clint

Indie have you had a look at the ministero dell'istruzione? there are sections for
1) studenti: few things on there including, students forums etc
2) famiglie: for the parents
3) teachers etc

there is also a link to some parents association http://iostudio.pubblica.istruzione.it/web/guest/413

one of them is genitori.it seems to have a fair bit of things on there http://www.genitori.it/documento.asp

Patty

I think Clints given some sound advice Indie. Have a good think and go forward from here. I know it sounds daft - but I have been thinking about it alot (I feel so sad for you ) I have also asked some of my students- but they didnt know how the law stood.
On saying that , when our son started in Sept 2003 we had NO cultural assistant or help and he has suffered quite alot. If he had been another nationality I'm sure he would have had help. (sorry its not a case of sour grapes - but another child who was moroccan had his own support teacher and the kids learnt how to make arab bread ??) However, being the first English child they had ever had - we received nothing.
Go cautiously - but go forward - this needs addressing and dont do anything rash. Big hugs

indiebird

no I'm sure there is no cultural assistant here. Or I have never been told. I have a friend whose daughter adopted a little girl from south america and I'm sure she has had nothing like this either, but then both her parents are italian. She is the same age as my son though and was enrolled at the same time but the Presida put her in the Prima class as she had had no formal education at all before and she went to the school in the small village where my daughter went to the Asilo. I have had a look at those links Clint but my language skills aren't up to it and I'm just a frazzled nervous wreck at the minute. My son has gone into school today and he is happy to go in, he just chooses not to work whilst he is there. I'm going to my language school tonight so I'm hoping I can have a word with people there as to where we can obtain help. Dh has talked me out of going to the Presida or the Caribinieri as yet, and to be honest, because there are two of them it is going to be difficult to move the school of one and not the other and any action I take with regard to the eldest could have consequences for the youngest who is getting on well at school so far.

clint

Indie the mediatori linguistici e culturali I think is something that has been introduced fairly recently and it is part of guidelines issued by ministero dell'istruzione. The schools are then left to implements guidelines/laws/ministerail decrees etc as they deem best for their school. To be honest reading up some of the stufff on the ministero dell'istruzione is clear they are reactive in their approach rather than pro-active so most of it is just trying to resolve issues that come up in relation to foreing students in the Italian school system.

On the subject of the mediatori linguistici e culturali it seems there are few courses with some sort of qualification certificate at the end of it springing up

You need to do what you think is best and right for your own situation and children I really do hope things improve

indiebird

Really? you do surprise me!

Hmmmm well I've never heard of it but there could be someone about then but new. However there seems to be a bit of a teacher shortage this year and I think this would be a low priority here. Also I could see it being reeeeeaaaalllllly unpopular with many if the italians here too. They think the problems are just my son and that if we took him away it was all be wonderful.

I'm working on it, but thanks for all the info and support. I do appreciate it.

jenny g

Poor Indie!!!!!!!!! and even more her little boy!!! I am afraid that i had a very similar problem with one of my children several years ago.He is the sweetest most polite child (he is now 21) but had to put up with a group of teachers that were absolutely appalling!! I was told on various occasions that my children had a 'handicap' they were BILINGUAL !!! I'm afraid there was so little i could do about it as i also had a younger son that HAD to frequent the same school, and you know just what a terrible future you can provide for your child if you start going against these demons!! Any other school in this immediate area were always run by the same governing body, so even if we had changed we would have always found a similar problem!! I did stand up to these 'pigs' but you can only do so much, so as not to cause even worse problems. Now i have grandchildren (i am a young nanny!!! i am trying to insist that they go to the European school at Parma..at least in a place where it is appreciated the gift of 2/3 languages!! Teaching should be a vocation..not simply a job..these people are helping mould our future generation of adults!! So dearest Indie..be STRONG DON?T let anybody badly treat YOUR CHILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Try and find a different solution, otherwise go to the education dept in you area and use your rights..COMPLAIN!!!!!!!!!! The very best of luck to you and your son!!!!!!!!!

Lorna at Vicenza

Bloody hell - whoever thought being bilingual would be classed as a handicap !

Unfortunately many of the teachers here never had any kind of formal teacher training in classrooms at all before starting to teach. They just had a diploma.
Today there is still no testing or any kind of grading system in place like the British OFSTED (as far as I know anyway). There aren't even any outside examining boards.

Some teachers do love to teach but some are just bone idle.

My friend who teaches at high school has a colleague who does bugger all. He just tells the class to read a page from their books every lesson. The students all know he is a waste of time, they all know that his class lessons are worth nothing and a waste of time, the other teachers know he is a total waste of space - but they all know he'll be there for another 2 years until he can officially retire.

It's bloody madness. Instead of the crappy politicians arguing about whether a school pinny should become a must all over Italy, they should be implementing a way to make sure that teachers can come under some kind of supervision or that they are made to go on upgrade course or child physchology courses etc.

I know many teachers in the UK think OFSTED is too overpowering but there is nothing here.

37100

Afraid the bi-lingual 'handicap' was not unusual years ago. My eldest refused to speak English except when we were in the u.k. because he got so much grief in nursery school.

Lorna at Vicenza

It's such a shame.

indiebird

They just think we're completely and utterly mad. I mean, why would you take your children out of school and away from all their family and friends to Italy for two years at a time? Just so that your nuclear family can stay together?! They can't get their head around it at all. We've already been accused of some kind of abuse because of Ds's refusal to work properly or change his ways despite the draconian punishment. I think he is hoping something bad will happen so we will just take him home to the UK. If it were just me making decisions then this is what I would do personally but it isn't and so he is still there. I am hoping that the lady who runs our language school may have come up with something. I'm speaking to her again tonight about it.