Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
Jun 2nd 2012, 9:22 am
#1591
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Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
Well said Lorna - and your not ranting you're just telling the truth 
I also read that article in the Guardian and it was definitely not strong enough. Maybe you should send your version to the Guardian Lorna ? Shake things up a bit
I also read that article in the Guardian and it was definitely not strong enough. Maybe you should send your version to the Guardian Lorna ? Shake things up a bit
Jun 2nd 2012, 9:55 am
#1592
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Location: Verona/ Nr Turin
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Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
Jun 2nd 2012, 11:05 am
#1593
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Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
Some of them are nice and friendly - but the bitch ones are effing horrible.
Forewarned is forearmed as they say so don't let them think you're a pushover and don't let them use English as an excuse for everything. Some of Chloe's teachers seemed to conveniently forget that her daddy is Italian, so are her grandparents here, so is every shopkeeper and person she comes into daily contact with and so are her friends ....... yet I speak English so everything is my fault. **** off!
Sorry - bit of a rant there!
Forewarned is forearmed as they say so don't let them think you're a pushover and don't let them use English as an excuse for everything. Some of Chloe's teachers seemed to conveniently forget that her daddy is Italian, so are her grandparents here, so is every shopkeeper and person she comes into daily contact with and so are her friends ....... yet I speak English so everything is my fault. **** off!
Sorry - bit of a rant there!
Jun 2nd 2012, 6:09 pm
#1594
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Location: Province of Vicenza
Posts: 19,036
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
Been out today for Alex's end of year class dinner - which for the first time ever was actually a lunch time picnic in the grounds of the birreria.
It was actually very nice because the birreria has a bit of a play park and lots of space and all the parents took whatever they wanted and shared and there was no fixed dinner price. No waiting for primo or secondo and no kids all bunged up inside some trattoria or whatever.
The teachers all got a very nice plant and a big applause so I stood up as well and said "e anche un grande applauso per i nostri ragazzi che hanno lavorato sodo!" It pisses me off that nobody ever thinks about the kids.
A few daddies that know me well clapped and said "hey Lorna - you want to make a speech?" They think they are taking the piss or putting me on the spot so I just raised my glass and said in English "God save the Queen!" Then I told them that I should be in England this weekend for the mega parties that are happening all over and that they do not even know that the Italian Carabinieri Cavalry are participating in the grand parade.
Not that they actually give a shit, but I thought I'd tell them something they didn't know.
There were a few die hard parents still there at 5pm. Not all of them drink camomila or acqua gassata thank goodness.
It was actually very nice because the birreria has a bit of a play park and lots of space and all the parents took whatever they wanted and shared and there was no fixed dinner price. No waiting for primo or secondo and no kids all bunged up inside some trattoria or whatever.
The teachers all got a very nice plant and a big applause so I stood up as well and said "e anche un grande applauso per i nostri ragazzi che hanno lavorato sodo!" It pisses me off that nobody ever thinks about the kids.
A few daddies that know me well clapped and said "hey Lorna - you want to make a speech?" They think they are taking the piss or putting me on the spot so I just raised my glass and said in English "God save the Queen!" Then I told them that I should be in England this weekend for the mega parties that are happening all over and that they do not even know that the Italian Carabinieri Cavalry are participating in the grand parade.
Not that they actually give a shit, but I thought I'd tell them something they didn't know.
There were a few die hard parents still there at 5pm. Not all of them drink camomila or acqua gassata thank goodness.
Last edited by Lorna at Vicenza; Jun 2nd 2012 at 6:14 pm.
Jun 3rd 2012, 8:45 am
#1595
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Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Verona
Posts: 235
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
I think it was very mean and very unprofessional of the head to take your OH aside and leave you and the boys outside. Just another example of ignorance and ignoring a foreigner. He should have welcomed the boys to the school and showed them around and told them he was happy to have them and that he and the teachers would do their best to help them settle in ............ but this is Italy.
I know it's very hard if one's Italian isn't very good but try not to take too much of a back seat when it comes to things like parent night and class meetings. The teachers will expect full collaboration from you when it comes to homework and making sure the boys have the right books etc. so don't let them walk all over you when it comes to meetings. They'll probably use the excuse that you're not Italian for everything as well. They are very good at that and at being negative too.
I eventually got so sick of all their shite that I started to answer them back. In 4th year primary one teacher told me that Chloe was struggling with written Italian grammar a little and it was because I speak English at home.
I wasn't having that so I said, "Chloe has been at this school since the beginning. I never taught her how to read and write in Italian - you did - so if she's finding it hard that's your fault and not mine."
Some of them have no idea how to talk to parents and they have upset plenty of mums on this forum. They talk to you as if you're a kid, or as if you're thick or as if everything is your fault.
Another teacher told me that Alex is hopeless at geography and history and has a memory like a sieve. I know it's because her lessons are shite boring and it's true that Alex cannot memorise 3 pages of boring crap. When I asked her what she suggested we could do to help him she looked at me blankly like it had nothing to do with her and it was all up to me.
Some of them are nice and friendly - but the bitch ones are effing horrible.
Forewarned is forearmed as they say so don't let them think you're a pushover and don't let them use English as an excuse for everything. Some of Chloe's teachers seemed to conveniently forget that her daddy is Italian, so are her grandparents here, so is every shopkeeper and person she comes into daily contact with and so are her friends ....... yet I speak English so everything is my fault. **** off!
Sorry - bit of a rant there!
I know it's very hard if one's Italian isn't very good but try not to take too much of a back seat when it comes to things like parent night and class meetings. The teachers will expect full collaboration from you when it comes to homework and making sure the boys have the right books etc. so don't let them walk all over you when it comes to meetings. They'll probably use the excuse that you're not Italian for everything as well. They are very good at that and at being negative too.
I eventually got so sick of all their shite that I started to answer them back. In 4th year primary one teacher told me that Chloe was struggling with written Italian grammar a little and it was because I speak English at home.
I wasn't having that so I said, "Chloe has been at this school since the beginning. I never taught her how to read and write in Italian - you did - so if she's finding it hard that's your fault and not mine."
Some of them have no idea how to talk to parents and they have upset plenty of mums on this forum. They talk to you as if you're a kid, or as if you're thick or as if everything is your fault.
Another teacher told me that Alex is hopeless at geography and history and has a memory like a sieve. I know it's because her lessons are shite boring and it's true that Alex cannot memorise 3 pages of boring crap. When I asked her what she suggested we could do to help him she looked at me blankly like it had nothing to do with her and it was all up to me.
Some of them are nice and friendly - but the bitch ones are effing horrible.
Forewarned is forearmed as they say so don't let them think you're a pushover and don't let them use English as an excuse for everything. Some of Chloe's teachers seemed to conveniently forget that her daddy is Italian, so are her grandparents here, so is every shopkeeper and person she comes into daily contact with and so are her friends ....... yet I speak English so everything is my fault. **** off!
Sorry - bit of a rant there!
Thanks and well said Lorna.....I will definitely need to have a bit more of an open mind(and a helluva lot of patience) but I am no pushover and will question everything. I do find Italians always have to blame someone for whatever reason (usually totally unfounded) they never actually stop and question themselves!
Jun 3rd 2012, 8:58 pm
#1596
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Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Verona
Posts: 235
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
Just reading through some of the posts in this thread - and wondered what happened to indiebird. Are you still in Turin, how are things going if you are? Apologies if I have missed something
Jun 4th 2012, 1:51 am
#1597
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 101
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
after reading through this thread for the past couple hours,
I have a few quick questions.
Would you all be complaining and finding the faults of British schools as much as you do with Italian schools? it seems you all post the negative more than the positive, I understand on internet forums people like to rant and let off some steam so putting out the negatives and frustrations is normal.
Are Italian schools really that bad? are British schools really that more superior?
DO Italian schools have the same problems like British schools?
drugs, gangs, sex, getting beaten up for your shoes or for the way you look??
this was all to common when I went to school in the city. of course that was the 80's don't know about today.. but British schools can be rough places.
sure when I was young, our school administration worked fine as I can remember, never lack of funding, well I guess, sport days, school trips all went smoothly, never heard my mum complaining about the things you guys are complaining about.
I have two younger sisters, 10 and 12 year difference, so I remember going to the schools for some of their events, and again everything seemed fine from the outside, and again mum never complained about things which you guys are complaining about.
maybe our school system is superior? I don't know as I have never experienced the Italian school system, but after reading all these comments it sounds like a place I should avoid if I can, and just think about putting my kid in the British school system and forget the dream of Italian schools.
we can find negative points in every countries school system can't we?
but if you had a choice, would you rather your child to go to school in Italy or in England?
and if so.. why?
I have a few quick questions.
Would you all be complaining and finding the faults of British schools as much as you do with Italian schools? it seems you all post the negative more than the positive, I understand on internet forums people like to rant and let off some steam so putting out the negatives and frustrations is normal.
Are Italian schools really that bad? are British schools really that more superior?
DO Italian schools have the same problems like British schools?
drugs, gangs, sex, getting beaten up for your shoes or for the way you look??
this was all to common when I went to school in the city. of course that was the 80's don't know about today.. but British schools can be rough places.
sure when I was young, our school administration worked fine as I can remember, never lack of funding, well I guess, sport days, school trips all went smoothly, never heard my mum complaining about the things you guys are complaining about.
I have two younger sisters, 10 and 12 year difference, so I remember going to the schools for some of their events, and again everything seemed fine from the outside, and again mum never complained about things which you guys are complaining about.
maybe our school system is superior? I don't know as I have never experienced the Italian school system, but after reading all these comments it sounds like a place I should avoid if I can, and just think about putting my kid in the British school system and forget the dream of Italian schools.
we can find negative points in every countries school system can't we?
but if you had a choice, would you rather your child to go to school in Italy or in England?
and if so.. why?
Jun 4th 2012, 6:22 am
#1598
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Province of Vicenza
Posts: 19,036
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
after reading through this thread for the past couple hours,
I have a few quick questions.
Would you all be complaining and finding the faults of British schools as much as you do with Italian schools?
Probably not
it seems you all post the negative more than the positive, I understand on internet forums people like to rant and let off some steam so putting out the negatives and frustrations is normal.
There is more negative than positive
Are Italian schools really that bad?
for the most part, yes they are
are British schools really that more superior?
not all of them but a lot of them are better in one way or another
DO Italian schools have the same problems like British schools?
drugs, gangs, sex, getting beaten up for your shoes or for the way you look??
Mostly not which is a good thing here but a lot of us live in smaller towns and villages and not big city centres. There are probems too of theft and bullying here but perhaps not as widespread as the UK.[/COLOR] this was all to common when I went to school in the city. of course that was the 80's don't know about today.. but British schools can be rough places.
sure when I was young, our school administration worked fine as I can remember, never lack of funding, well I guess, sport days, school trips all went smoothly, never heard my mum complaining about the things you guys are complaining about.
I have two younger sisters, 10 and 12 year difference, so I remember going to the schools for some of their events, and again everything seemed fine from the outside, and again mum never complained about things which you guys are complaining about.
My mum never had to buy toilet paper for the school or sheets of white paper. She never paid 300 euro for text books. She never had to buy me a paintbrush or a set of paints.
maybe our school system is superior? I don't know as I have never experienced the Italian school system, but after reading all these comments it sounds like a place I should avoid if I can, and just think about putting my kid in the British school system and forget the dream of Italian schools.
we can find negative points in every countries school system can't we?
yes
but if you had a choice, would you rather your child to go to school in Italy or in England?
and if so.. why?
I have a few quick questions.
Would you all be complaining and finding the faults of British schools as much as you do with Italian schools?
Probably not
it seems you all post the negative more than the positive, I understand on internet forums people like to rant and let off some steam so putting out the negatives and frustrations is normal.
There is more negative than positive
Are Italian schools really that bad?
for the most part, yes they are
are British schools really that more superior?
not all of them but a lot of them are better in one way or another
DO Italian schools have the same problems like British schools?
drugs, gangs, sex, getting beaten up for your shoes or for the way you look??
Mostly not which is a good thing here but a lot of us live in smaller towns and villages and not big city centres. There are probems too of theft and bullying here but perhaps not as widespread as the UK.[/COLOR] this was all to common when I went to school in the city. of course that was the 80's don't know about today.. but British schools can be rough places.
sure when I was young, our school administration worked fine as I can remember, never lack of funding, well I guess, sport days, school trips all went smoothly, never heard my mum complaining about the things you guys are complaining about.
I have two younger sisters, 10 and 12 year difference, so I remember going to the schools for some of their events, and again everything seemed fine from the outside, and again mum never complained about things which you guys are complaining about.
My mum never had to buy toilet paper for the school or sheets of white paper. She never paid 300 euro for text books. She never had to buy me a paintbrush or a set of paints.
maybe our school system is superior? I don't know as I have never experienced the Italian school system, but after reading all these comments it sounds like a place I should avoid if I can, and just think about putting my kid in the British school system and forget the dream of Italian schools.
we can find negative points in every countries school system can't we?
yes
but if you had a choice, would you rather your child to go to school in Italy or in England?
and if so.. why?
The bad side is lack of grounds, sports fields, grass, gym halls etc, so yes, they learn tons of stuff but it is not rounded off by all the sports that we did, and drama, a school choir, perhaps a school band, sports day, swimming, cooking, sewing, needlework, woodwork, metalwork etc.
Too much emphasis is still on book learning and exams here and if a kid is not a mastermind at memorising pages of facts, there is very little where he/she can show other skills and due to a huge lack of equipment there are no hands on lessons or practical science lessons etc where one might shine.
The kids here do not get enough praise for the amount of work that they do actually do. The teachers and parents have only ever known this system though. WE come from the outside of this system so we do know that things can be better or different and things can work in other ways.
I know that many British schools have had a lot of bad press since I was at school and a lot of British kids are drop-outs and bordering on being illiterate but I blame a lot of parents for their kids behaviour too and a general lack of discipline. Health and safety in the UK seems to have gone bloody stupid too and I've read all the articles about spprts day being dropped, no more conkers etc.
It seems that plenty of UK kids have a tonne of human rights which they have no bones about exercising or walking out of a school.
Of course these are generalisations and there are bad schools and good schools but the UK does have an inspector system and a grading system and published exam results. Some UK parents choose their town, village, place to live based on a school alone.
That doesn't happen here. My village, your village, big, town, small town, North, South .... it doesn't make a whole lot of difference as the system used is pretty much the same all over Italy and it is old and tired and old fashioned.
Last edited by Lorna at Vicenza; Jun 4th 2012 at 6:34 am.
Jun 4th 2012, 7:07 am
#1599
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Location: Ferrara
Posts: 2,497
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
I think Lorna speaks for all of us ...
..and just wait til you get to the superiori !
..and now we've had the bloomin earthquake and schools are closed tout court, without any mention of alternative help / assistance...luckily mine is old enough to loo after herself.....but the maturità is less than 1 month away ..
Apparently there's an "emergency" meeting of teachers in various schools today to sort things out .. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that one... they all just can't wait to be on holiday . .possible 1 or 2 out of 10 are actually bothered with the kids' education ..
I heard yesterday of a teacher who was doing interrogazioni on kids from Finale Emilia a few days after the first quake and then sending them away with 3/4 because they hadn't studied ... this is NOT a tall story .. apparently he was "ripreso" by the Principal, but of course he's still there "doing his job" ..
..and just wait til you get to the superiori !
..and now we've had the bloomin earthquake and schools are closed tout court, without any mention of alternative help / assistance...luckily mine is old enough to loo after herself.....but the maturità is less than 1 month away ..
Apparently there's an "emergency" meeting of teachers in various schools today to sort things out .. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that one... they all just can't wait to be on holiday . .possible 1 or 2 out of 10 are actually bothered with the kids' education ..
I heard yesterday of a teacher who was doing interrogazioni on kids from Finale Emilia a few days after the first quake and then sending them away with 3/4 because they hadn't studied ... this is NOT a tall story .. apparently he was "ripreso" by the Principal, but of course he's still there "doing his job" ..
Jun 4th 2012, 7:13 am
#1600
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Province of Vicenza
Posts: 19,036
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
I think Lorna speaks for all of us ...
..and just wait til you get to the superiori !
..and now we've had the bloomin earthquake and schools are closed tout court, without any mention of alternative help / assistance...luckily mine is old enough to loo after herself.....but the maturità is less than 1 month away ..
Apparently there's an "emergency" meeting of teachers in various schools today to sort things out .. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that one... they all just can't wait to be on holiday . .possible 1 or 2 out of 10 are actually bothered with the kids' education ..
I heard yesterday of a teacher who was doing interrogazioni on kids from Finale Emilia a few days after the first quake and then sending them away with 3/4 because they hadn't studied ... this is NOT a tall story .. apparently he was "ripreso" by the Principal, but of course he's still there "doing his job" ..
..and just wait til you get to the superiori !
..and now we've had the bloomin earthquake and schools are closed tout court, without any mention of alternative help / assistance...luckily mine is old enough to loo after herself.....but the maturità is less than 1 month away ..
Apparently there's an "emergency" meeting of teachers in various schools today to sort things out .. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that one... they all just can't wait to be on holiday . .possible 1 or 2 out of 10 are actually bothered with the kids' education ..
I heard yesterday of a teacher who was doing interrogazioni on kids from Finale Emilia a few days after the first quake and then sending them away with 3/4 because they hadn't studied ... this is NOT a tall story .. apparently he was "ripreso" by the Principal, but of course he's still there "doing his job" ..
I hate 'interrogazioni'. I think the word and the way in which they are carried out in the classroom is positively medieval and borders on child abuse.
Jun 4th 2012, 7:16 am
#1601
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Posts: 2,497
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
That's absolutely bloody madness. Apart from the sodding earthquakes, any decent teacher should have finished the "interrogazioni" weeks ago. How the shitting hell any kid is supposed to study in the middle of the pain and upset is beyond me.
I hate 'interrogazioni'. I think the word and the way in which they are carried out in the classroom is positively medieval and borders on child abuse.
I hate 'interrogazioni'. I think the word and the way in which they are carried out in the classroom is positively medieval and borders on child abuse.
Consequently they haven't got a clue about writing an essay ..
Jun 4th 2012, 7:43 am
#1602
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Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Verona/ Nr Turin
Posts: 4,671
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
Caught a bit of the news over the weekend. They were saying that teachers will get training! They will have to get classroom experience. Not before time -if it ever comes about.
On the whole, I can't complain about the schools my pair went to.
Jun 4th 2012, 7:54 am
#1603
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Location: Modena
Posts: 546
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
An Italian friend of mine used to tell me about her university literature exams (oral ones). You'd go in and the guy would say, "what was the colour of the girl's eyes on page 147?"
Jun 4th 2012, 8:03 am
#1604
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Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Verona/ Nr Turin
Posts: 4,671
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
I was under the impression they already had training now? My sister-in-law studied to become a teacher, but perhaps it was all theory and no practice. Now why does that surprise me?
An Italian friend of mine used to tell me about her university literature exams (oral ones). You'd go in and the guy would say, "what was the colour of the girl's eyes on page 147?"
An Italian friend of mine used to tell me about her university literature exams (oral ones). You'd go in and the guy would say, "what was the colour of the girl's eyes on page 147?"
The 'colour of the girl's eyes' might be an exaggeration - or not, but from what my sons say, it's not far of the truth. That is, if they can nail down the prof and DO the exam.
Jun 4th 2012, 8:08 am
#1605
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Location: Ferrara
Posts: 2,497
Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.
OMG .. .can't wait to see the back of Italian "schools" although university is looming .. entry exams not until September of course and then it all actually starts God knows when...
I remember on my year abroad, I naively knocked on university office doors in late September asking when lessons would start.. I soon learned the phrase "Non si sa" ...
I remember on my year abroad, I naively knocked on university office doors in late September asking when lessons would start.. I soon learned the phrase "Non si sa" ...