ALFIE15

I looked into installing solar panels and a new pellet heating system in spring and contacted a company in Tuscany. They gave me a very comprehensive quote including beak down of everything. My neighbour who is American and lived here over 30 years recommend getting further quotes and recommended an engineer who did a project for her. He visited looked around my house and I showed him what I was looking for information of the company that had already spoken to me. Firstly he told my neighbour (not me) that I should not use the other company which should have rang a bell with me as very unprofessional. He went a way and this was now the beginning of August and I heard nothing from him. Then on 16th September I get an A4 piece of paperwork with a quote basically exactly the same as the previous company but with 300 euros less.
I replied to the email with the quote and got no reply and went back to my neighbour who contacted him on the telephone and told him that the quote was unacceptable. He agreed it was not a good quote and it was from a third party that he had passed my information onto ( was not aware he was going to do this ).
This was the end of the conversation and I went away with some disappointment as I need the heating completed by the winter.
I heard nothing further from him and continued along the lines of looking for a new pellet heating system. A local plumber was recommended that was very professional in showing me numerous system that were available and arranged a visit from his engineer that would complete all certification will be issued by the commune. The price was very good and he installs next week sadly deeper into winter that I would have liked.
The harsh lesson is that the original engineer contacted my neighbour three weeks ago saying he had now completed the project for solar panels for electricity and pellet heating system. My neighbour told him that I had found an alternative heating system as I had heard nothing from him except the quote that I was not happy with. His reply well that was not the project even though he never told me that.
The upshot is that he has told me now I have to pay for the project I asked for back in July. I tried to explain through my neighbour that I received a quote from him and replied to him that I was not happy with it. He did not tell me at anytime that it was a quote from a third party and that he was still completing a project. If I had know this I would have told him not to proceed any further as he was acting very unprofessional.
My neighbour has told me I will have to pay him as through her I verbally asked him to complete a project.
This whole lesson could leave me out of pocket a substantial amount of money because of a person not willing to communicate with me even though he had my email.
To go a long period without him talking to me my assumption after receiving the quote,this was the project and as I told him it was a terrible quote he had finished. But he comes back some two months later now to tell me he had completed a project and wants paying. This has cause me some sleepless nights having to hand over some of my hard earned pension to a very unprofessional man.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of situation of poor communication through what are supposed to be professional people.

ALFIE15

Sorry if for the long post � ����

ononno

No prob Alfi. DO NOT HAND OVER A SINGLE EUROCENT.How do they justify any payment. Have they produced an invoice? Did you sign a written contract? Tell hem to eff off. Carlo Ponti used to say 'a verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written on'. British Airways once told me 'verbo volant, scripta manet'.
A local proverb recites 'The Banco di Napoli doesn't accept words or wooden spoons as colateral'. Go and get some sleep and take no notice.
All the best,
'o nonno

ALFIE15

I have nothing on paper on a contract only the email saying it was a poor quote he sent. I do not know Italian law but the general feeling here a verbal contract can be binding. My problem with him is he knew I was looking for the heating system for winter and into November having not heard from him he was surprised I went to someone else and now having the system fitted in December.

Lorna at Vicenza

  You'd be mad to even hand over a single euro. Don't do it. Really, don't do it. He has bloody nothing on you and is just trying to get a fast and sneaky move over you. If he kicks up a stink tell him to take you to court. He won't as there isn't really anything like a small claims court here and he knows he hasn't got a leg to stand on and it will cost him more than the whole of your heating system several times over. Tell him to go and be a "furbo ladro" with somebody else because you're not a stupid pushover. You're not legally bound to anything. My Italian husband said the same thing except he said, "tell him to vaffanculo!"  

Patty

Alfie - Lorna and O nonno are right - do not hand over a single cent to this swindler. He is just trying to pull a fast one on you. Your neighbour should also be ashamed of herself - telling you that you owe him money. (maybe she gets a cut ) anyway, stand firm and threaten him with a visit from your lawyer. (I did this recently to a very aggressive electric company who were on the verge of taking over supply to my house after a telephone conversation with my SON !! ) - they soon left me alone. Italy is the country of the 'furbi' unfortunately and so you have to be one too. (so true a saying - if you can't beat 'em join 'em )

modicasa

You are under no obligation to pay him anything. You asked for a preventivo, that is all - a preventivo is binding,but you should not pay for one... Keep your money and choose your neighbours wisely!

philat98

We have just had a new gas boiler fitted.

We spent 1 hour with the installers offices where they showed us all the outstanding technical features of a certain boiler and all items in the preventivo.
The evening before installation they called to say they were bringing something different but lucky for us the same price.

When the plumber finished he told us that the boiler needed a cover to protect from the cold and not part of the original estimate.

Our dog craftily pi**ed in the plumber's toolbox. I suspect that went on the bill too.

ALFIE15

I have been told the project he calls it was not a quote. He completes a report by designing a system which includes positioning and amount of solar panels required, also what size of boiler is required. This is what the report includes, as well as the potential of what the solar panels would produce.
My question via my neighbour was if this was required why did he get a third party to produce the quote in September if the report was required. My assumption was as a quote was produced and therefore a report was not required and no further work from him was required.
I believe he has been very unprofessional in not communicating what he has been doing, if he had told me after I complained about the poor quote that he was continuing with a report I would have told him not to. I am also angry that he has passed my email and information to a third party without my permission.

modicasa

Honestly, dont pay - you have signed nothing, you have given him no permission to use your data, and you have not asked for a project to be made after an estimate. He is trying it on. tell him you are going to make a denuncia for fraud and extorsion and against the privacy laws.

37100

Your right in saying that verbal contracts can be legally binding, but this guy does look as if he is on shakey ground. I think that I would look into complaint to his albo' or a consmuer association.

ononno

Which article of the Codice Civile makes this assertion?

37100

LOL Onnono. I have no idea! I just know of a friend who was caught out and ended up having to pay for a project he didn't like and didn't need and nor did he sign up for anything.

jonwel

Preparing estimates and designs can involve quite a lot of work (e.g. estimate for changing the central heating in your condominium), so it's not unheard-of to have to pay... but this must be the subject of an agreement with an agreed price! It may be that a verbal agreement can be binding, but they have to prove that it exists. Here you have your neighbour acting as a go-between, again with no authorisation to do so. I hope she won't be a witness to the verbal agreement! A saying comes to mind: "With friends like them, who needs enemies?". I agree with all the others: don't pay!

Lorna at Vicenza

Just refuse to pay anything and don't be guilt tripped into doing it. If my neighbour Mr Rossi told me that Mrs Bianchi was thinking of sending her son to me for English lessons, do you think I'd sit down at the computer and waste hours of my time and money making up lessons and printing them all out?  It's a scam.