C.2s

Sorry Plan B but I don't agree ... it's not "frequently uncertain and time-consuming"... Surely you mean it's "ALWAYS uncertain and time-consuming" ! 🤣

​​​​​​I thought I was prepared for the bureaucracy before I moved here. I'd rented a holiday home for several years, I'd read lots of books and websites, I'd spoken to other people who had moved here, I'd spoken to Italians who'd moved away (and all of them cited the bureaucracy as a factor), so I figured I understood. But now that I have been living here almost five years I have to admit that I didn't have a clue.

And it's not just interactions with the various authorities, but also with shops, professionals, organisations, clubs, etc... everything is much more difficult than it needs be...it can be incredibly frustrating.

There are positives about living here of course...you could just think of the bureaucracy as a challenge I suppose!
​

philat98

Applying for elective residency at the Embassy then a residence permit when you arrive gives a good introduction to Italian bureaucracy. Added to that you cannot exchange your driving licence. These are hurdles that will put off a lot of folks.

Listen Very Carefully

I lived in Italy for 7 years and I never ever got to grips with Italian bureaucracy despite having a degree in French and Italian so at least I did not have too many language problems.My real bug bear was going to say the Commune for a form or advice being told by one very helpful person to go to the something or other office across town(which was only open for 24 minutes every other Tuesday afternoon ) get a form number something then go to the tabbaccheria to get a bollo for €2,37 or some nonsensical sum then troll back across town to the Commune before they shut only to be asked by someone different why have you got this form ?"Allora-she told me to" pointing at another assistant-Cue furious argument between everyone in the office as to the correct procedure whilst an Italian sidled up to me and said "E normale signore, e normale"
And do not ask what happened when I applied for my 5 year residenza certificate!!!

philat98

They can always think of a reason for not giving you the Permesso di soggiornoi di lungo periodo. Another hurdle for 3rd country nationals.

37100

The ETIAS will be the same for all EU countries. I can't remember the exact questions, but minor criminal and old non serious offences will not need to be declared.

fenman

the problem is like everything this has been ill thought.
The processing will be central but, in case of declared convictions, the decision ultimately rests with the individual country ETIAS unit. So my minor conviction may well be accepted in Lithuania but would not be in France. So the way round this is to apply to a country which has a more lenient approach and then use the 3 year VISA to access the rest of the EU. So everyone can see that this ETIAS system is nothing but a waste of money as it does not prevent security threats from entering a country if they try enough...

It would have worked had there been a unified approach to criminal convictions, like the aussie system for example with a blanket ban for anyone that has served more than a year in jail.
Through this ETIAS system you will have people refused for very minor convictions as they will have applied to countries which have severe regs for previous convictions yet others will be able to enter the EU even with violent crimes as they have applied to the right country....

Lets not even get onto the fact that the EU does not have access to data on the UK police computer.....

and whilst I write my reply, ETIAS has been delayed until November 2023...was supposed to be introduced in 2021 originally...

fenman

i may just stick with the six months tourist residence providing I pass the ETIAS test once this is compulsory...

37100

The terms and conditions for obtaining an ETIAS are standard, agreed to by all EU countries. People will either meet the conditions, or not. The is no leeway for countries to decide otherwise. IMO a minor offence shouldn't be a problem.

All airports need to have the European Entry System and E- gates up and running before the ETIAS can start. Seems that, after Covid delays, things are back on track. However, how it will work at ports is still work in progress.

Non EU citizens are allowed 90 in 180. Not 180 continuous days.

fenman

The forms ask questions about criminal convictions. The system then checks if the person applying hits any of the central databases i.e. interpol green notices.
If, the applicant hits one of the central databases and / or the person states they have a conviction the application is sent to the national ETIAS unit who then decides what happens. Countries will have leeway to decide if one is allowed in or not as legal systems and treatment of convictions / punishment are different. If they did not have leeway there would be no point in the application being forwarded to the national units?

https://frontex.europa.eu/media-cent...-system-hiltkW

more specifically:"Just like in case of Canada, US and Australia, travellers will apply for the European travel authorisation online, either using the ETIAS website or mobile application. They will also have to pay a fee of EUR 7.

In most cases, the online application will only take a few minutes to complete. The system will automatically compare the personal data submitted by the applicants with the data already stored in various EU information systems. In case of a ‘hit’, the application will be manually processed by the ETIAS Central Unit, managed by Frontex, and forwarded to the ETIAS National Units in Member States for final assessment.

It is expected that some 97% will be accepted in the automated procedure within 96 hours. The remaining 3% will be decided on by the ETIAS National Units.

An ETIAS authorisation will be valid for three years for the entire territory of the Schengen area, or until the validity of the travel document the applicant used expires - whichever comes first".

37100

Yes, I get what you are saying. And yes, the estimated 3% of refusals can be appealed to the individual country, but that doesn't mean that country will let the person in or that they will be given free reign of the other EU countries. And the initial refusal will remain on file although it shouldn't bias any future applications.

I still think that you are over thinking things here though as questions about minor spent convictions probably won't mean a refusal.

tpw21

Sorry for hijacking the thread but when applying for Italian citizenship, do you apply with a CRB certificate or is it something else? If it’s CRB, can this be standard rather than enhanced?

philat98

There is a citizenship facebook group. I expect they have the latest information.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/APPL...ANCITIZENSHIP/

fenman

Confirmation the ETIAS has been postponed to November 2023

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...november-2023/

I have a feeling this will never be introduced, it must be the 5th postponement so far....I dread to think how much money has been wasted on this so far.

Geordieborn

I too suspect there is a good chance this will never come to pass, however, someone said on another forum that the long-awaited Entry/Exit System (EES), which will require all non-EU arrivals to have four fingerprints scanned and a photograph taken, is still due to come into force in May next year! From what I've read this will involve the bio data being collected at the first point of entry to the EU. So if it does come to pass those driving to Italy next year may want to plan well ahead... It also pointed out that France has laws that don't allow this data to be collected by other than customs staff and it can't be contracted out. This has to be done in person, so you can imagine every car arriving in a port has to stop, all the people get out and have their data collected.... They are saying for other countries and in airports they can likely handle this, but UK/France will be a big issue/problem. .

keithrogers

On the subject of applying for the elective visa in a uk consulate,how on earth do you get an appointment ?
we have our paperwork ready but cannot cannot find a
way to make the appointment. The consulate automated phone system says to use an outside company called vfs global.
When you do try,there is no response to any form of communication. ☆There is an 0871 number at 68p per minute though....gulp.

Any ideas on work around folks ?