a_grz_vr

Hello,

I am a 29-year-old living in England right now and I want to move back to Italy by myself this year. There are many things I didn't find out about the first time I moved there, and yet I paid rent, worked and had a tax code.

Now that I want to move back, I need to take into consideration the residency permit for a more than 3 month stay and public healthcare, especially because this time I want to move back I have an additional problem: an illness that I require daily medication for.

I've been using two websites so far (which I can't post because of the rules of this site). One is the GOV UK website, "living in Italy" section. The second is the POLIZIA DI STATO website.

First of all, can you tell me if the residency permit has anything to do with enrolling for public health care? In other words, do I need to sort out the residency permit BEFORE applying for public healthcare at the ASL?

The next thing is that I just don't understand properly the required documentation for applying for residency. The POLIZIA DI STATO website says:

Right of residence for more than three months
Union citizens have the right of residence in Italy for a period of longer than three months if they:

• are workers or self-employed persons in Italy;
• have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover, or any other equivalent means;

What on earth does "sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system" mean exactly? I find it to be quite vague. I intend on leaving with about 6,000 euros of savings (of which I'll probably spend a huge amount during the first month for rent deposits and things like that). Would that be considered enough to meet this requirement? How would I prove it? Would a bank statement be enough?

Or does it just mean I need to have a job in Italy that pays the rent and bills? I’ve read some information on another site and someone said something about having a job that pays 15,000 per year for two people. How much money would I need to earn per year if I’m on my own? What if I can only find a short-term contract? I think most jobs in Italy now are only temporary anyway. In other words, what if I can't show how much money I earn per year, but only how much I can earn during my short term contract (which would probably last less than a year).

Then of course there's the problem of whether I can actually work legally or not. I had several jobs in Italy and my managers usually told me to pretend I was doing a trial if the police came in (and the police DID come in once).

As for the declaration of my savings, I was thinking that maybe I could also give a declaration of my family's property (the house we all live in, which does cost a lot, actually, because of the zone it's in). I know that for university enrolment in Italy you can declare you family's wages as well as their property's worth (if you've been living with them for the previous 2 years, I think) in order to obtain reductions on the university fees. Maybe something similar also works for residency...But I’ll tell you that the property is not in my name in any way whatsoever, and there is no talk of me inheriting it or anything like that.

Has anyone actually been through this residency permit business? What documents did you need? The information is way too vague and answers are coming too slowly (I am asking all kinds of people...ministero degli esteri, degli interni, questure etc.)

I know that after I need to find out about the health insurance bit, but I'm just trying to do one thing at a time for now.

I really need to understand how this works because I'm convinced it's linked to healthcare, and I need my daily medication. If I didn't have this health problem to worry about I wouldn't even bother with the iscrizione anagrafica, because I didn't bother with it the other time I moved to Italy, and yet I had somewhere to stay, income etc.

By biggest fear right now is that I'm going to go to the town hall, sign up for residency, and they send me away because I don't meet the requirements (whatever they are exactly...I still dont' get them properly right now).


Thank you for your time

Serrano

Hi, and welcome. You've asked a lot of questions there, and the answers to some depend on the answers to thers (if you get my meaning).

To summarise, I understand that you're a 29-year-old single person living (and working?) in the UK. I presume a British Citizen. You are planning to move to Italy and after arrival look for a suitable job.

So, on that basis - if you are planning to be here for more than 3 months, you do need to apply for residency. It's not onerous, and (especially with Brexit looming) it would be a good idea to play by the rules this time. Also, you don't need to apply until the three months are up, though there's no real reason to hold off doing so.

As is normal in Italy, there's what the official rules say, and there's what the official you are dealing with says. Often they coincide, but not always. If they don't and the official's view would cause problems, there are really only three choices. (1) to go with what the person says (2) go back another day and hope to find someone else with a different view (3) fight to prove what the official rules say. The third option should be viewed as a last resort.

Residency: You will need to apply to the comune for this, and they will be the final arbiter on what documents you have to provide. Almost certainly proof that you have somewhere to live (thus a legal rental contract, or someone who's willing to attest that you're staying with them) and proof that you won't be a burden on the state (could be a job, thus having an income and being covered by the state health service, or private health insurance and your 'sufficient means'). There is an official figure for 'sufficient means' - I seem to remember about €5000 per annum for a single person. In practice you only need to prove health insurance and 'sufficient means' for the first year, even though the rules say differently. For 'sufficient means' they will normally be happy with a bank statgement (so it makes sense to get one before you've paid out deposits etc!)

Health: Access to the state health system is another matter. Very easy (and automatic) if you've got a job. If not, some (but relatively few) regions will allow you to buy in to the system. If you are in one of the other regions, you will have to get private health insurance as a prequisite for residency. I don't know how (if) that will cover pre-existing conditions. You don't say what medication you need, but you could well have to go to a doctor privately, get a private prescription, and then buy the medication. All of which will cost something. If you are prepared to divulge the medication someone here may have more precise information.

In an attempt to keep the answer shorter than the question, I'll leave it at that - if you have further specific queries, etc, just post again and someone will be along to help.

modicasa

a_grz_vr

To Serrano,
Thank you so much for your answer. I was very impressed with it. I printed it and made notes on it ahahah. I gave you a reputation point as well.


It's great to receive this kind of help from at least someone because the people who are supposed to help don't do a very good job of it. I ask a lot of questions, yes, but I always organise my messages well with paragraphs, bold bits, write them in Italian (for years Italians have mistaken me for a native speaker both in person and behind a computer, so trust me when I say they understand perfectly what I write to them), think properly about my messages before I send them; the most I get from THEM (ministero della salute, etc.) is a half answer to a question I didn't even ask...and takes them a while to get back as well...

I’ve had this problem with them for years, though….

You got it right here: To summarise, I understand that you're a 29-year-old single person living (and working?) in the UK. I presume a British Citizen. You are planning to move to Italy and after arrival look for a suitable job.



TWO SCENARIOS:

So I’ve been thinking and I’ve divided the situation into two scenarios:

1. JOB WITH CONTRACT:

- I find a job WITH a contract,

- I register for FREE with the *servizio sanitario nazionale* (SSN) through an *azienda sanitaria locale* (ASL) (this information come from the GOV website: living in Italy).

- Then I sort out residency at the comune.

At the comune, if I have a job with a contract:

- Proof of somewhere to live (rental contract or other, as you said. I know I had at least one when I was in Italy, so it doesn’t seem that hard to get. Hopefully it won’t be hard the next time ahaha).

- Proof I won’t be a burden on the state: employment/income + covered by state health service (as I said above, the gov website says that employment enables free registration with the SSN).

Proof of employment: work contract, earnings of min £5,000 per year? (by the way, another person who answered said it was 6,048, but it depends on the comune).

The limit sounds low, but from the many stories I’ve heard employees seem to be making around 1,000 euros per month in Italy. I used to make 800 a month/9,600 per year in Rome (off contract).

A couple of questions:

- (if you know) What would happen if your work contract lasted less than a year?

- if I am employed, do you think they will take into consideration my savings? Even if I only had a meagre 500 euros in the bank, would they be ok with it if I had a job?



SCENARIO 2:

2. JOB WITHOUT CONTRACT:

I didn’t ever have a work contract in Rome, and I did many jobs, of many kinds. However, I was often told that Rome is “una città del sud”, “una città provinciale” and unorganised. I didn’t ever really understand what they meant at the time, but it might be linked to things like work contracts (basically not doing things according to the rules). I’m planning on going to Milan, things may be different there.

- I find a job WITHOUT a contract,

- I register with the *servizio sanitario nazionale* (SSN) through an *azienda sanitaria locale* (ASL). I pay an annual fee. (Again, from the gov website).

- Then I sort out residency at the comune.

I go the comune, “unemployed”:

- Proof of somewhere to live (rental contract).

- Proof I won’t be a burden on the state:

Savings? (So 5,000/6,000 euros? Proof with a bank statement?)

AND

(as you said) private health insurance.

I’m a bit lost with that. Who would I ask? (If you know). I’ve never needed to find out about something like that in my life. I hardly even know what it is #

I was thinking I could use my SSN annually paid enrolment…



I’ll go into more detail about my health situation in separate questions, otherwise it will be overwhelming writing about that here too, ahahah.

Thank you so much for your help so far. If you don’t have time to help me again, that’s fine, I’ll try and ask someone else. At least I’ve got all the information and questions written down in a structured order that helps me begin to make sense of things.

Bye!

modicasa

a_grz_vr

Hello Modicasa,

Thank you for your answers. I want to ask several things about them but the first thing I am wondering about it where you saw the 6,000 euro limit. I'm on the COMUNE DI MILANO site again, and I can't actually see a figure, just information (kind of repeating a lot of stuff we're already speaking about here, and that I've already seen on other sites).

Thanks for your time

37100

The amount is actually € 5,890. This link is for Vicenza, but it the same everywhere and Vicenza, handily, puts it in English.
https://www.comune.vicenza.it/cittad...hp/42722,79204

modicasa

37100

I suspect that it varies slightly from comune to comune ( even though it shouldn't). I only used Vicenza because it's in English. Unless you own your home, have a veggie patch, and, especially in the north, have a forest to chop down for heating, you'll struggle to live on the minimum amount.

a_grz_vr

Thanks 37100 for the link, it made things really clear!

a_grz_vr

Hello Modicasa,
Can you tell me what assicurazione volontaria is? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet in the advice I've been reading.
Thanks again

a_grz_vr

Hi 37100,

Yes it's true, the minimum amount is really low but THANKFULLY that's the amount they require, and not a higher one, because reaching that amount in savings can be very hard work.

Most foreigners I know in England came here on much less, some as little as 1,000. Usually they come on 2,000/3,000.
(Though maybe there's a rule in England too like the Italian one, just that I don't know about and they don't either).

It's true that I've tried to move to Italy three times, and every time I've gone with less than the minimum amount, only that I didn't know there were rules like this I thought an EU passport was enough, and that you just take a few thousand pounds with you because you'd be stupid not to. But I've never taken 6,000 with me. Maybe 5,000 once.

Once I was REALLY lucky, because I was sick of waiting to leave so I just went with about 1,500...I got there and was so naive that I didn't know about things like two month's rent in advance...but the landlady said she didn't actually NEED the 700/800 euro deposit (can't remember how much it was exactly), she was happy with a cheque, and would've cashed it if she had needed to. So all I needed was one month's rent

Anyway, last year, I did contact the Ministero degli Esteri, asking them what else you need in order to move to Italy if you have an EU passport; they said "that's it, just take some money with you to face the initial period".
Well I'm seeing now they omitted something quite important...how it's seeming now is that it's an EU passport with 7,000/8,000 euros (because a) you might not get a work contract if you find work and b) you need to pay one month's rent + two rent deposits, THEN go to the comune with 6,000 euros).

No no, 6,000 euros will not last me for a year I'll be spending minimum 1,500 euros in the first month for one month's rent + two rent deposits for a single room (probably in Milan). But I think the minimum they've set realistically keeps you going for a few months without a job.

This does influence on when I leave my job, so luckily I found this out.

Thanks again

a_grz_vr

I'll add aswell...I think we're writing here a really good guide about how to move to Italy...it's here that you find out the information, not by contacting the organisations etc. ! Hopefully other people can take advantage of this to have success with their moving!!!

a_grz_vr

Hello,
In the end I managed to find a figure on the COMUNE DI MILANO site. And as you predicted, it DOES differ

2. Cittadino titolare di risorse economiche sufficienti al soggiorno (non lavoratore)
Documentazione da presentare:
2) autodichiarazione del possesso di risorse economiche sufficienti per non diventare un onere a carico dell’assistenza sociale dello Stato. La somma di riferimento corrisponde all’importo dell'assegno sociale che, per il 2012 è di euro 5.577,00 lordi annui. Ai fini dell' iscrizione anagrafica è valutata anche la situazione complessiva personale dell'interessato;*

It's in one of the attachments/PDFs ("allegati" section): "Dichiarazione di residenza – Allegato B: documentazione necessaria per l’iscrizione anagrafica di cittadini di Stati appartenenti all’Unione Europea".
(Just in case anyone else is looking for it, too).

37100

The amount is for a yearly income, the comune might, or might not, enrol you based on having that amount in a bank account.