Pulaski

A global language, becoming the global language.

English is already most likely to be the common language that two people from different countries have. In India it is the closest thing they have to a national language. ...... Who'd have thought that a vulgate [3] language from a small island off the coast of Europe, which wasn't even spoken by the country's ruling elite 800 years ago, could rise to become the most widely spoken language in the world, and one that is seems to be spreading ever more rapidly.

primularossa

Come on....English has become "the" global language because of the imperialistic hystory of Great Britain and the USA and their consequent cultural dominance. The same reason why latin was the global language at the times of the Roman Empire. It's the case that English is spoken, e.g. in Nigeria and not spoken in other African countries that were French colonies, like Marocco or Tunisia or Central African Republic.

ononno

a
You mean like Italian in parts of Libya, Eritrea, and Somaliland ?
Of course not the official language, as is English in countries like Liberia, Kenya, Ghana, South Africa, etc. Oh, and we musn't forget Portughese in Places like Angola and Mozambique. In other words, we've all had a crack at 'imperialistic colonisation'.

Pulaski

You have answered the question "why?" which was a question I didn't raise nor did I try to answer. BTW when did the UK colonize the Netherlands and Scandinavia?

primularossa

The British did not colonise Western Europe, but the US did the rest of the job after WWII establishing in the world as the predominant economy - if not materially, for sure culturally and politically. With some exceptions and resistances (e.g. France, which is another colonial power).

garfagnino

Languages are constantly evolving to encompass the need to describe advances in all spheres of social, economic and scientific developments and advancement. Take English for example, it's a developed language derived from ancient Britons, Romans (e.g centurion-century etc.), Romano British, Anglo Saxons, Vikings, French and various immigrants over the ages and also words that have been integrated from colonialisation (e.g. char=tea, palyasse=litter or bed, etc.) and any other civilisations we have been in contact with. So English is truly a mongel language that continues to evolve as do others. Interestingly, the vatican has a 'team' devoted to developing 'modern' latin that is 'up to date' presumably capable of describing computers, gigabytes and the like! I wish them luck!

Pulaski

The growth of English in mainland Europe is a much more recent phenomenon than the US presence after WWII. When I was at high school English was not widely spoken in Germany and it was considered likely that greater Germany, notably to the east, would end up as a German-speaking bloc. When I started visiting Italy back in the 1980s English was not widely spoken. Move forward 20 years and by the early 21st century it seemed that in both Germany and Italy it was easy to find people who could speak and understand English.

It may (probably was) English colonialisation that started the process, and American media that has continued to encourage it, but the need for a common international language to facilitate international trade and diplomacy is such that the growth of English has already IMO passed the tipping point where it will continue to grow progressively under its own steam and needs no push from Britain or America.

sunnysider

Rather less people than you maybe think primula used latin even in imperial rome, let alone its imperial possessions.

Of course, the vatican heirarchy, the ghost of the roman empire, adopted latin. But their objective wasn't communication but mystification. Don't want folk being able to interpret things for themselves.

If latin was ever a global language how do you explain its reduction to diddly squat, even after 1500 years?

sunnysider

Yes, english hasn't "belonged" to the english/british for a long time and witness the panic of many a brit when asked by an indulgent foreigner/italian to explain a point of grammar. Pretty soon i can see the remaining reverence for "mother tongue" english teachers disappearing. For the mother of english has slept around a lot

MarkRD

I like that!
(But mind your capital letters please!)

sunnysider

primularossa

The "mother tongue" English teacher (meaning both: the teacher of English AND that she is English) of my daughter taught her that "smart" is a noun.


BTW - referring to previous messages: Yes it is true, of course Latin was used together with other languages during the Roman Empire times, but is is not a case that Portuguese, Spanish, French and Rumenian are neo-latin languages, together with Italian, Sardinian and also Corse. This is a result of the roman domination. Latin has been used as the international language for communicating among scientists for more than 1000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire - as well as now English is used in scientific papers.

As an example, you can see here Isaac Newton's "Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica".

http://www.dhspriory.org/kenny/PhilT...sPrincMath.pdf

Once, a PhD student in the UK did not believe that Italian was a suitable language for talking about science. He ignored that most of the world that are used in science, both in Italian and in English, come indeed from ancient Greek. As well as many others like democracy, kilometer, cinema and so on.

Garbatellamike

Given this is the Italy forum I think you left a word out so fixed it for you

primularossa

Online Etymology Dictionary

Bureau comes from French, the suffix "cracy" from Greek

Lorna at Vicenza

Primula ... even you must admit there is no excuse for this bad English: