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Opening a business?

Opening a business?

Old Nov 14th 2012, 9:09 pm
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Default Opening a business?

Hi so i have had a chat with my girl and she is with me on the idea of moving to florence aswell as me its probably young love and all that but we have had this idea of setting up a little cafe and bakery, As she is studying baking and all that goes with that i was wondering if that is a viable option of thinking that would be possible, Im not sure i just thought someone might have a bit of experiance with this type of venture also i had the idea if we went ahead and managed to get a 2 story shop (if all goes to plan) of opening a little photography studio upstairs but as i said i am just wondering for this moment in time? Although i think this might work somehow?
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Old Nov 15th 2012, 4:51 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

to rain on your parade - to open any food based shop you will need to do a course, pass the exam and get the certificate. To have a shop you will need a licence which you usually buy from another business that is closing. In Florence you will be needing upwards of 100K for a licence only. Then there are the premises. SO come with half a million in your pocket, and you may jsut make it work - and be fluent in Italian, and have enough money to wait for 2 years before you can start working. And in the meantime the stress ruins your young love and the end. If I were you think of something else easier, running for president, becoming head of Apple, ....
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Old Nov 15th 2012, 5:57 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by modicasa
to rain on your parade - to open any food based shop you will need to do a course, pass the exam and get the certificate. To have a shop you will need a licence which you usually buy from another business that is closing. In Florence you will be needing upwards of 100K for a licence only. Then there are the premises. SO come with half a million in your pocket, and you may jsut make it work - and be fluent in Italian, and have enough money to wait for 2 years before you can start working. And in the meantime the stress ruins your young love and the end. If I were you think of something else easier, running for president, becoming head of Apple, ....
You didn't rain!!! You poured!!!
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Old Nov 15th 2012, 6:51 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by giuliana
You didn't rain!!! You poured!!!
Cats and dogs!!!

Brom bomb, have a look at Sancho's posting below about ease of doing business...
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Old Nov 15th 2012, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by Isakat
Cats and dogs!!!
Hurricane Sandy!

This is the thread to put things in perspective -
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...6#post10382086
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Old Nov 15th 2012, 7:02 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

yeah well - INPS and IVA due today - Im feeling bitter!
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Old Nov 15th 2012, 9:56 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by BromBomb
Hi so i have had a chat with my girl and she is with me on the idea of moving to florence aswell as me its probably young love and all that but we have had this idea of setting up a little cafe and bakery, As she is studying baking and all that goes with that i was wondering if that is a viable option of thinking that would be possible, Im not sure i just thought someone might have a bit of experiance with this type of venture also i had the idea if we went ahead and managed to get a 2 story shop (if all goes to plan) of opening a little photography studio upstairs but as i said i am just wondering for this moment in time? Although i think this might work somehow?
Hi
As you can see from the other posts it isnt just a case of packing a few things in a backpack and catching the next plane out.
there are many things to consider when entering into such a venture in the UK and it is no different in the rest of Europe. Except you will find those certificates you may gain show expertise but unless they have been issued in the country you are going to start the business in then just wallpaper, despite the EU saying skills are transferable. You need the language to meet all the needs, from EH to H&S to Insurances to Rental Agreements to dealing with suppliers and customers etc etc. And have new certificates issued by the country you settle in.

Our "friends" in the EU have a number of initiatives to allow the free movement of labour within its borders - but it is still left to the individual countries to implement in any way they see fit. And again language skills are high on their list.
To get you started in the planning you will need to do I have put below some EU SME information, each contain numerous links so you will be reading for a long while.
May I suggest you start long weekend visits to find the place you feel comfortable with, and feels comfortable with you. Find out the right place to start a business, with plenty of footfall for a retail business, balanced with the cost of rent and operating costs

Good luck, keep us informed on how you get on, as you progress thru the shark infested waters you know you will get good help here on BE. If you are lucky you might get some help from the British Embassy.
Rgds

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business...y/index_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/polic...s/index_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/small-business/m...s/index_en.htm
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Old Nov 19th 2012, 7:36 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by modicasa
to rain on your parade - to open any food based shop you will need to do a course, pass the exam and get the certificate. To have a shop you will need a licence which you usually buy from another business that is closing. In Florence you will be needing upwards of 100K for a licence only. Then there are the premises. SO come with half a million in your pocket, and you may jsut make it work - and be fluent in Italian, and have enough money to wait for 2 years before you can start working. And in the meantime the stress ruins your young love and the end. If I were you think of something else easier, running for president, becoming head of Apple, ....
THIS IS SO NOT TRUE!!!

why do people keep acting like Italy is impossible!
small businesses open everyday and close in Italy.
you can open a little trattoria, a bar, a bakery all for less than 10 grand!!!!

I know because my cousins do it all the time. also I see many chinese, arabs, africans running alittle stores! you think they put down half a million dollars! or bought a license for 100K???? hahahahahaahah

you see an empty shop, you call the landlord and you rent it, you do the interior, you get your permits, and you open the door. just like any other country.

now of course location will change your buy price.
I am sure on the best street in florence you might have to pay 500.000euros for someones shop. but that doesn't mean you can't move out to the suburbs and find a small empty shop for nothing..
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Old Nov 19th 2012, 7:53 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

when was the last time you bought an attivita for a shop that sells food?
I have attivita (bars) for sale for 80.000 to 500.000 euros - and Im in Sicily. This doesnt include rent or premises and not necessarily equipment.

Last edited by modicasa; Nov 19th 2012 at 7:56 am.
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Old Nov 19th 2012, 8:36 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by modicasa
when was the last time you bought an attivita for a shop that sells food?
I have attivita (bars) for sale for 80.000 to 500.000 euros - and Im in Sicily. This doesnt include rent or premises and not necessarily equipment.
1 year ago my cousin opened a paninoteca. she opened it for less than 10.000 euros.

last year my friend opened a cafe, small bar, he opened it for 30K

my dads friend opened a restaurant in the retirement club for pensioners.
cost him 10K.

so I don't know what you are talking about ..
maybe in the south things are more expensive compared to the north
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Old Nov 19th 2012, 9:00 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by Juvefan
THIS IS SO NOT TRUE!!

you see an empty shop, you call the landlord and you rent it, you do the interior, you get your permits, and you open the door. just like any other country.
Er, you think. The permit is the least of you worries when opening a shop. OH's family rent a shop out. The present renter is struggling and has ask for what effectively amounts to a discount. The one before did a runner so they do not rent to the first person who walks in and decides to set up a business. And at least a 3mnth deposit is needed.

In theory you can just apply for a permit, but some by-laws forbid certain types of shops in certain zones. If you need to do alterations, you will need the landlords permission and, for outside vents and signs etc, you will need the building owner's permission too. For which you need to have plans drawn up.

You will also need to have to get your qualifications translated. Probably easier to do a course (in Italian) here or have a 2yr apprenticeship. Of course, if you can 'borrow' a relative....

You will also have to pay INPS (pensions) for you and any staff -again, unless you can drum up some relatives. Added to your tax, rent and energy cost -which are very high here-, it comes to a large amount.

You will also need an accountant. Going rate here €1,200 p.a. Brave is the person in Italy who does their own books however tiny the income. And with the recent economy climate, declare a too small an income for the tax office and you will get a visit from them. Or rather, you will be summoned unless they decide to hide round the corner and demand that your clients show you their recipts.

So yes, you can open a business here. Yes, of course. But can you move here and magically set up? IMO.....NO!!!!!
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Old Nov 19th 2012, 10:07 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

My husband runs a small business here and it's definitely not for the faint of heart and I have no idea how you'd manage if you didn't speak fluent Italian. He spends a huge amount of time dealing with bureaucracy as everything is buried in red tape. Never seen anything like it before I moved here and I've lived in many places. But of course it's quite possible to start your own business if you're determined to do it, have the funds and do your research.

My husband worked 3 jobs for a long time and saved money for ages before starting his own b&b. he doesn't have any family money. So it's totally possible to do but you need to have a reasonable amount of savings and be willing to jump through lots of hoops as others have pointed out. Also my husband had already worked in the hotel industry here in Rome for around 10 years when he started out so he had lots of contacts and knowledge of how things work and he was of course fluent in Italian.
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Old Nov 19th 2012, 2:25 pm
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Juvefan, obviously your relations opened their attivita in places where there were lots of licences available. If you want to open a bar, for example, and there are no free licences, you must buy an existing attivita - you cannot just open a shop that is regulated by licences. Obviously if you opening a bicycle repair shop then there will be no problem, but bars etc need licenses. And I would think Florence already has a full quota.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 12:20 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

Originally Posted by modicasa
Juvefan, obviously your relations opened their attivita in places where there were lots of licences available. If you want to open a bar, for example, and there are no free licences, you must buy an existing attivita - you cannot just open a shop that is regulated by licences. Obviously if you opening a bicycle repair shop then there will be no problem, but bars etc need licenses. And I would think Florence already has a full quota.
ok, still florence is a big city with many suburbs, and many VERY smaller size bars, bakeries, coffee shops.
so I don't think a 6 square meter shop in a quiet zone or not a so desirable location will cost half a million dollars!

now perhaps for a big restaurant or bar in one the highest traffic areas in Florence will cost you hundreds of thousands of Euros.

but let'snot tell the OP for a VERY small little bakery and a photo studio upstairs is going to cost the guy half a million dollars! because it doesn't!
unless he wants to open a bakery next to the Uffizi!
he can easily achieve his dream with a small bakery away from the tourist areas.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 5:32 am
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Default Re: Opening a business?

OK - lets be real here. 6mq? HE wants a shop not a market stall. He wants a bakery, studio, laboratorio, (with therefore kitchen and toilets etc) - where are we - 100mq? plus somewhere to live? and he wants the dream - so not periferia, he would prefer Ponte Vecchio presumably. SO do the math.
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