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Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Old Jan 16th 2018, 7:53 pm
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Default Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Hello,

I'm new to this site and so pleased to have found it.

I am planning on moving to Umbria or La Marche in August of this year.
My partner is Italian and will be working in these regions.
I will be moving with my 14-year-old daughter who is adamant she doesn't want to come, but I know it's the right choice to make for us as a family.
We both speak no Italian.
My questions are:

1, Has anyone done this with just one child of the same or similar age?
2, Is it possible to put her into an Italian Secondary School speaking no Italian
and how hard will it be for her to adapt?
3, Also can anyone recommend a good High School and which Town in Umbria or La Marche would you recommend? Although I'm aware it will mostly depend on which school I finally put her into

I've read a lot about Vocational Schools does anyone have any experience of these? My daughter is a very talented artist, is there any Art Vocational Secondary Schools?

Sorry for all the questions but its such a minefield and I'm feeling so nervous about the move, mostly for my daughter. I'm terrified she will hate it and hate me forever.
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 6:21 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

For a 14 year old to move to a new country and leave behind all their friends is daunting enough - but to not speak a word of the language is mad in my book. 14 year olds are very socially conscious, and while she may be a sounding board for Italian teenagers to practise their English, she will feel hugey embarrassed and disadvantaged. Realistically there will be no real help available - so I would sugget you start learning Italian now - full immersion for both of you - if you arrive in Italy without a word your daughter is going to have a miserable time. She will go down at least a year while she catches up - you will want a liceo artistico where she will specialise in art, but she will have to study Italian like everyone else.
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 8:02 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

I would personally think twice before moving my teenage kid to another high school in the same country let alone to a different country where they don't speak the language. If your kid was under ten then I think it would be a different matter.

The only other option would be to send your daughter to an international school where she could continue her studies. I don't know how you expect her to enter an Italian school with no Italian language skills (I guess if she's 14 now, she could be going into the 2nd year of high school in September) and feel comfortable in the classes with all the text books in Italian. In the 3rd year, she could be reading Dante from the original! In vocational / art schools they still have to do 4 hours of Italian and 3 or 4 hours. of maths etc. By the way, in Italy if you don't pass the year you have to do it again, and again, and again until you do pass. A lot of parents end up sending their kids to private paritaria schools to get them through, if this is the case.

Personally, I would let her do her GCSE's first and then take it from there .....
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Hi Modicasa, Thanks for your reply, my daughter, is currently 13 but will be 14 in the new school year. If we do make the move it will be in Easter and I will put us both into an intensive Italian class. do you know La Marche or Umbria Region? Are there any Liceo Artictico that you could recommend?
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 10:51 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

I would think she will have to redo the last year of scuola media before she will be accepted into a liceo at the very least. Im afraid i cant help withthe Umbria/marche area - there will undoubtedly be some licei that are better than others but its a big zone to start honing in on.
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 11:05 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Concur with modicasa, you should aim for the liceo artistico.

I also think your daughter is going to be absolutely miserable speaking no Italian, and will find school and social life extremely challenging. You should, immediately, begin full immersion courses.

What is the closest international school to where you will be living?
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Originally Posted by mebuddhaful
Hi Modicasa, Thanks for your reply, my daughter, is currently 13 but will be 14 in the new school year. If we do make the move it will be in Easter and I will put us both into an intensive Italian class. do you know La Marche or Umbria Region? Are there any Liceo Artictico that you could recommend?
School year goes from Sept to Sept, but age wise it is Jan to Dec. If your daughter is 14 before the end of 2018 she would be in 3° media now and move on to artistica in September. I doubt that you will find a public school willing to take her. She would most likely be put into 3° media or even 2° media.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'vocational'. High schools are divided by type if that is what you mean. However, an art school student sits the same Italian paper for their diploma as every other high school student. I don't have any direct experience of art school, but, although she may well be a very talented artist, Italian schools are a lot about theory and a lot less about practical work. She will be expected to learn the History of Art, History, Geography, Philosophy, Chemistry, Physics etc and of course, all in Italian. TBH I think that she would be destined to fail.
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

I would go for the Marche instead of Umbria. Umbria is suffering from a lot of job losses at the moment and public services are being cut.
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 3:45 pm
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Concierge, I don't understand why you believe my daughter "would be destined to fail".
My first priority is my daughter and her well being is all that matters to me. Currently, we live in London and I work full time, I spend most days working until late and I'm just about able to cover my bills and rent, I don't get home till late so my daughter spends most of her time alone and she is always in her room on her phone watching youtube videos. Its a struggle to afford to pay for extra curriculum lessons, as life in London is expensive and as a single parent even more so. My daughter goes to the local school which at the end of the day has police outside the gates to ensure the kids don't cause a nuisance to the local residents. My daughter always complains she doesn't feel as though she is learning because her teachers are constantly leaving and being replaced with new ones. I have placed her on the waiting list of other schools. I understand that moving her to another country could be catastrophic but it also could be the best opportunity for her. I look around and I see many people in London really struggling to get by and people always complain about the secondary education here, the classes are over full and the teachers are overworked and underpaid. At least in Italy, she would have another language and a much healthier lifestyle and once she has completed school in Italy she can always return here and go to university. Her main reason for not wanting to move is because of her friends not because of school, I'm sure she would easily make new friends and now with social media, she can stay in touch with her friends from London. I believe us staying in London would be more likely of failure then moving to Italy. I really would like to hear from anyone who has done this with one child in a similar age.
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Old Jan 17th 2018, 4:20 pm
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Destined to fail art school because, with no Italian -or little- she would be expected to study around 10 subjects in Italian. If you don't make the required grades you fail the year and as some one else has said, you can fail year after year. Even English would be difficult for her because it is very grammar centre. Little importance is given to spoken English -assuming she will study English and not another language. Don't expect the school to help her catch up. It will be left to you to provide her with a private tutor for her in any subject she struggles with.

I'll give Lorna a ping. She has high school age kids and can perhaps give you an idea of the amount of work involved.

I don't think that I can remember anyone on here being successful putting a child, without Italian, in high school.

Please don't think that I, or the other posters, are trying to put you off coming to Italy. We are just telling you what you can expect or not from schools here. If you get a chance to visit Italy, try and visit one, anyone,and it will give you an idea of how basic they are. You might be shocked. While it doesn't reflect the standard of education it shows the lack of funding and what you daughter will be up against.
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Old Jan 18th 2018, 1:02 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Originally Posted by 37100
Destined to fail art school because, with no Italian -or little- she would be expected to study around 10 subjects in Italian. If you don't make the required grades you fail the year and as some one else has said, you can fail year after year.
OP, this is the point, and it will be hard for her to break into social circles because just because kids may "study" English that doesn't mean they "speak" it.

Picking up a new language is not something that can be done in after-school lessons a few times a week for a few months. Think 5-7 years of full-time immersion.

Nor am I trying to put you off moving to Italy . . . but this is going to be a monumental challenge for your daughter.

An international school option in my view would be the way to go as she could continue with an English-language curriculum aligned to international standards, and almost surely the school will also value cultural immersion and emphasize acquiring Italian as well.
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Old Jan 18th 2018, 10:29 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Originally Posted by mebuddhaful
Concierge, I don't understand why you believe my daughter "would be destined to fail".
My first priority is my daughter and her well being is all that matters to me. Currently, we live in London and I work full time, I spend most days working until late and I'm just about able to cover my bills and rent, I don't get home till late so my daughter spends most of her time alone and she is always in her room on her phone watching youtube videos. Its a struggle to afford to pay for extra curriculum lessons, as life in London is expensive and as a single parent even more so. My daughter goes to the local school which at the end of the day has police outside the gates to ensure the kids don't cause a nuisance to the local residents. My daughter always complains she doesn't feel as though she is learning because her teachers are constantly leaving and being replaced with new ones. I have placed her on the waiting list of other schools. I understand that moving her to another country could be catastrophic but it also could be the best opportunity for her. I look around and I see many people in London really struggling to get by and people always complain about the secondary education here, the classes are over full and the teachers are overworked and underpaid. At least in Italy, she would have another language and a much healthier lifestyle and once she has completed school in Italy she can always return here and go to university. Her main reason for not wanting to move is because of her friends not because of school, I'm sure she would easily make new friends and now with social media, she can stay in touch with her friends from London. I believe us staying in London would be more likely of failure then moving to Italy. I really would like to hear from anyone who has done this with one child in a similar age.
Hello and welcome.

You have to understand first of all that schools are structured very differently here.
Children do 5 years of primary school starting at age 6.
Then there are three years of middle school. During the third year of middle school they have to choose what kind of high school they think they want to go to and officially register at that school. Personally I think this is the most stupid age for them to be thinking about which school to choose to base a future on and many students realise they have made a mistake and end up changing high schools after the first year. The high schools are divided into different categories so there are Liceo schools for science, art, language, classics, social sciences. These are generally considered to be "grammar" schools for want of a better word. Then there are the professional institutes offering different courses like accounting or IT technology or Fashion and Design. There are also what are known as Formation/profession schools which could be slightly more like a technical school with course like mechanics, electronics, catering, beauty school etc. They are all types of high school and in all of them students have lessons in Italian, maths, English, science, geography, history, PE. Other lessons depend on which school and course a student has chosen. Kids at the language liceo will have more language lessons than kids at the science school. Kids at the social school will have lessons in psychology whereas kids doing accounting won't but they might have lessons in law and economics. Kids at the formation schools will have lessons in a mechanics laboratory and maybe an hour less a week of science. Kids must first pass their leaving middle school exam before they can move on to any kind of high school.

It's hard work in all of the schools and kids are expected to get a grade six in all of their subjects. It doesn't matter if you're Einstein in maths and physics. If you don't get a six in Geography and History you risk having to pass an exam in those subjects in August to see whether the school will move you up to the following year in September or keep you down as a repeat student. Your daughter could be Picasso getting all grades 9 or 10 in her art lessons, but if she doesn't get a six in Italian and maths etc she will fail the school year.


Nothing is free either. Parents have to buy all the text books and the exercise books and anything else. The text books are expensive. A maths book or science book can reach prices as high as €40. Some books get changed every single year like English year 1 - English year 2 - English year 3 etc. Some of the more expensive science or Italian books are used for more than one year. Some second hand ones can be found online or at markets but it's hard to find all the books needed for that one school year.

The school day generally starts around 8am and finishes between 1 and 2pm with just a 10 or 15 minute morning break. Some schools still have Saturday morning school. The ones that don't have opted for a longer day or lessons one or two afternoons a week with a lunch break.

Transport isn't cheap either. When my kids were at primary and middle school they could walk or cycle to school .... but all the high schools are in the big town or cities so now they both have to catch the bus. It is just 9Km from my house to the town where both their schools are and their bus pass costs me €300 each per year. That's €600 before they have even got to the school door and before I have paid for all their text books.

As has been mentioned, the schools generally look like old prison blocks. They don't have nice playgrounds or big sports fields. They don't have tennis courts or gyms or big libraries, study rooms or common rooms. They have 2 hours of PE a week which generally consists of ball games or jogging around a small inside gym or outside in the school concrete grounds. Some of them have basketball markings and hoops but there are no nice grassy sports fields, athletics or rugby etc. Most Italian parents pay for football club, swimming lessons, tennis, skating, martial arts etc which are of course all held in private gyms and clubs usually from 5pm onwards so that kids have time to get home, eat something, do their homework (lots of it) and then go off to their sports club.

The schools look like prison blocks both on the outside and often on the inside too. Lots of long corridors and classroom doors .... mostly plain and bare because they don't have many class projects, community projects or school projects. Learning is very much a "on your own" thing. The teachers teach a few lessons and then tell the kids that they will have a test on those five chapters or that particular topic next Monday. It's up to the kid to then get a 6 or more on that test .......... and this is repeated throughout the whole year in every subject. There are written tests and then there are 'interrogation' tests where students are called to the teacher's desk one by one and interrogated. Kids are asked any question at all by the teacher and they have to verbalise the answers. Your end of year grades are solely based on the grades you earned during all those tests. There is no course work for getting extra grades. It is learn, study, sit the test, get interrogated, get graded. A nicer teacher might raise a kid's grade from a 5 to a 6 at the end of the year if that student has shown great improvement and a lot of dedication ......... but mainly it is all test based. It puts pressure on the kids because they are often reminded that they are "under and insufficient" in a certain subject and that they better pull their socks up unless they want to fail. This is why many parents end up paying for extra tuition .... either to help their kid along throughout the year or just to get them through that extra end of year exam so that they can move up and not be kept down.

My kids, one 17 and in her 4th year at the science liceo, the other 14 and just started the professional institute high school in September were both born here. I don't think either of them has ever got higher than an 8 in Italian. The grammar is very hard - even for Italians - and there is also the literature and poetry as well. Kids are just delighted and over the moon if they get a 7 in a test because they know that's a pass and I don't know any students who expect to get lots of 10s.

My kids rarely get a 10 in English as well. They do in the 'interrogation' because that is an oral test and their teachers have both understood that their spoken English is so much better than theirs. They often do in a reading or listening comprehension as well, but they have both fallen down in some grammar tests because they were not born with all the irregular verbs in their heads or the difference between the past perfect continuous and the present perfect continuous. They often know when something just doesn't feel right or sound right, but they don't always have the correct written word or verb. They've never failed an English test getting less than a six, but they don't always get a 10.

I don't think there is anyway that a high school will take on a 13/14 year old student without any Italian. It would be harder to refuse her is she were 17 because a 17 year old in a middle school would be somewhat out of order. There are plenty of 14 and some 15 year olds in the third year of middle school because they are the kids that have failed a year already and are repeat students.

So this is generally what all kids face here as students. Of course as teenagers they have their friends and their social lives as well, but there's not a lot of fun to be had at school and it is hard.

None of us are deliberately trying to put you off or be only negative, but the school system here is very different and I hope I've managed to explain it properly. Ask away if you have any more questions.
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Old Jan 18th 2018, 11:05 am
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

The one thing you don't have to pay for is a school uniform, because none of them have one. Most kids rumble up to school in jeans, a tee-shirt, a hoodie and trainers. Most of the teachers do too.
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Old Jan 18th 2018, 2:09 pm
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

A well deserved 10 to Lorna for a excellent description of schooling in Italy; for highlighting the few pluses and many pitfalls that foreign children and parents need to be aware of.
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Old Jan 18th 2018, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: Moving to La Marche or Umbria with my 14 year old daughter

Some thing else about schools here; teachers. There are some brilliant ones, but there are also some truely awful ones. They are virtually unsackable. They are always right even when totally wrong. It's no good complaining about an incompetent teacher because they will not be removed . They are glued to the chair. Kids soon learn to just get on with things and studying on their own rather than risk a revengeful teacher lowering their grades.
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