ItaLondon

Two set of people would not care about a default:
- the cash strapped people: for them if Italy is in or out of the Euro, default or not default, they do not care
- The rich people (i.e. 'la casta'): but they have already hedged their position as most of their cash is stashed either in offshore places or they have invested in properties in prime locations in London.

Bottom line: the middle class is always the one who takes the hit.

HADENOUGHPIZZA

THe seriously rich might be able to ignore the implications of a default but not the hard up . They may already be dependant on payments from the state in one form or another which would not be garanteed after a default , they would also find themselves dealing with drastically reduced services .

gioppino

ItaLondon, I don't know if you have noticed but the middle class is dead and buried. I would say that the financial elite are the ones who wouldn't benefit for a default.

It has happened before: Iceland defaulted in 2009 and two years later the economy was flourishing again.

In any case my point is that you can't even conceive to withdraw from the single currency without defaulting.

Alternatively one could adopt the a semi-default approach, where the state decides for a voluntary default only on foreign debt but at the same times issues bonds in Lira and with that the state pays internal creditors. This would work as long as the creditors think that the newly printed Lira is real money.

You see, it all boils down to the psychological factor that people attribute some kind of worth to a currency. If you introduce a new currency and nobody would want to accept it as payment, you're back top square one.

fleetwoodmac1975

These Italians so unruly and disorganised, maybe the should learn the rules from the head chopping British nationals who are currently on a killing spree in the middle east...

Sancho

Answers like these aren't answers at all. They're like "That's exactly what the Economist-Communist would say", or "It's just the FT and the FT belongs to Murdoch" - i.e. they don't address the subject.

gioppino

Or maybe they should have followed Tony Blair's orders when it was requested to invade Iraq and get rid of Saddam Hussein!

Oh, wait a minute! They did!

highlander1

...as well as fighters that are nationals of Belgium, France, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Norway , Sweden and yes... Italy.

fleetwoodmac1975

If I had fellow countrymen travelling to a foreign country and chopping womens and children's heads off the last thing I would do is constantly criticise another country.

fleetwoodmac1975

Please present evidence of Italians fighting in me

gioppino

Well, you know, criticizing a country is still part of a fundamental human right of expression (incidentally the Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph readers would rather get rid of these fundamental rights), but it's a bit rich when someone says that, ergo, <insert ethnic groups here> are "not genetically programmed to" <insert stereotype here>.

As you can see the bulk of posters here on the Italy forum don't live in Italy or have no connection to Italy.

fleetwoodmac1975

Well had that comment been made on certain other nationalities or ethnic groups I am sure there would have been plenty of protests...but yes it is perfectly fine to do so with regards to southern europeans....

gioppino

So are you saying that there are double standards? Come on, how is that possible?

isshin

We're genetically programmed to have a laugh at your racist nonsense, thank God.

fleetwoodmac1975

Just have a look at those dolmio TV adverts.

sunnysider

Don't worry Modicasa.

It's clear to anyone who knows about Italy/has followed it for any time that there is a very long history of many ITALIANS talking about the possibility that Italy and Italians are ungovernable/have issues with nationhood.

Italians can be found going back to the early 20th century at least saying such things.

Some of them were nominally in charge of the country.

I have returned to this thread (which was previously a serious consideration of serious issues which italondon - an Italian I believe - didn't take umbrage at) to find that it has been taken over again by the usual irrelevant stuff about the Iraq war, British folk who might not be totally white doing problematical things, the Dolmio advert again, etc etc etc.

There is a very strong suspicion to say the least that at least two of these posters are one and the same person/troll.

I would urge folks to stick to the subject and just let these folks blast away in their own little world/thread within a thread.

If this goes on the forum will become unusable.

Finally, I think it pretty clear that the vast vast majority of British expats/prospective expats on here have a history of a love affair with Italy and do not write certain things lightly.

Maybe it has taken them longer to arrive at, at times, a somewhat desperate state for they do not have the head start that Italians have by actually being born in the place.

best regards to modicasa (even a brief perusal of his/her history would find it is a history of positive efforts to help folk through the Italian maze with no hidden agenda) and to italondon.