nicktonight

Just had a big shock as I had previously thought that the Italian retirement age was 67 when in fact it is past 71 (71 years and 8 months in my case) for all free lance professionals who have not paid more than a total of approximately €166,000 of INPS contributions.
This means that the obligatory 26% deductions from your earnings every year do not provide a pension until you are 71.
This is a big disadvantage to be taken into account for expats coming and working here for part of their lives as they unlikely to reach the required level of contributions whereas someone working here all their lives can retire at 67.
Incidentally the pension is roughly 5-6% of your contributions per year so someone who has paid €150,000 will receive about €800 per month from age 71-72. To receive any pension at all you must have paid INPS contributions for 5 years.
The above calculations are approximate as they depend on the exact month of retirement etc,

Geordieborn

If I also had UK contributions I would claim my pension at whatever age they say is the lowest regardless of how long you have paid as I'm sure the UK conts will still be combined even after Brexit. Italy used to have one of the earliest retirement ages going....

nicktonight

Thanks for the feedback but according to INPS and my Patronato although you can combine the number of years of UK contributions with the number of years of Italian contributions to obtain the minimum of 20 years of contributions required to have a right to a pension in Italy, you cannot add the actual amount of UK contributions to the INPS contributions to obtain the threshold amount (€166,000 approx) to obtain the Italian part of the pension before the age of 71 and several months. Hope that this is clear! This may apply only to the "Gestione separata" for freelance workers.

Geordieborn

Just hope the UK pension remains fully payable there!

nicktonight

I have a French Pension for the years I worked in France which is fully payable from age 66 with no strings attached about minimum contributions. Coming to work in Italy in middle age would have been an absolute financial disaster for me if I had sold a house and purchased one here in Sicily - luckily something held me back. My post above is simply to illustrate the hidden pitfalls of being a working expat in Italy and help people make the right calculations - who knows perhaps things will change for the better now

modicasa

Its a minefield - and seems to all depend who's at the desk you day you go to INPS. I have been told there is no set age for lavoratori autonomi - you need 38 years of contributions to qualify. As UK contributions being added to Italian ones, apparently this may not be possible after Brexit (all depends on Boris). This ma be true or not - but there doesnt seem to be anything actually written down! BAsic state pension is about 600 a month I think, so is it worth paying 166 000 euros for another 200 a month?

37100

It's €512 at the mo, but it should be raised to €780 this year if all goes to plan. However, if you get the min or your actual amount of your basic pension depends on your family ISEE.
This is the last year of 'quota 100' so if you meet the requirements it's worth considering as next year, unless you are 67, 38yrs will not be enough.

modicasa

Thanks Concierge. I must admit I put my headin the sand a couple of years ago. Ive still 10 -14 years to go before I may or may not get anything - so it hardly seems worth getting worked up about. its more likely that Ill get a handful of small change a week when I get to retirement age

Lorna at Vicenza

I need to find a Sugar Daddy because I don't think I'll be getting any kind of pension anywhere.
They should teach earnings, taxes and pension plans at school instead of ******* graphs and obtuse bloody angles.

657

Hi Nick,

I am new to this forum and started a related thread. I am interested to know more about the above as I paid 10 years of INPS between 1994 and 2004. Will the INPS contributions I paid count towards any deficit in the full UK pension? Or does this only apply to those resident in Italy?

modicasa

As I understand it, no. You will get a miserable amount from Italy and less miserable amount from the the UK. They will remain distinct and separate. Happy to be proved wrong!

Geordieborn

It’s seems quite simple and relatively fair when it finally sinks in what they are doing and in some cases the UK has been doing this with other EU countries for years (20-30 or more) before we went into the EU. Problem is getting your head around all the awful detail. But basically they DO combine your contributions to get a theoretical amount, but then reduce this proportionally (they use the term “pro-rata”). Under EU rules they have to treat your claim as they would any of their own citizens claiming a pension solely on the states contributions. For example they can’t make you wait until 71 if under Italian only contributions people don’t have to do so. If you do a search for something like “form E202”, using “DuckDuckGo” I got this EU result (and many more) whereby you get the official line. Okay I’ve not worked calculating these claims for many a year and things could have changed, but I can almost guarantee they will NOT have, simply because it’s too complex for them. Equally I’m pretty sure NO pre-EU reciprocal agreements were ever rescinded and will simply fall back into place, well at least in the interim years for the same very reason. I suspect if you wanted to get a definite call on this i.e. concrete information you would need to first find the regs on it and then understand them. In my time they were several big (and I mean very big and heavy) red binders, which believe it or not we had to read at times…. The link above almost starts immediately quoting “Regulations Nos 1408/71” and do you know what it brings back awful memories - sad that it looks familiar….

NB I should have looked a little closer at my own link, it actually describes how it is supposed to work, probably better than I can these days...

Geordieborn

Another recent good post by Hadenoughpizza today had this Gov.UK link , which I think is good news for those UK people living and working in Italy prior to exit. Scroll down to "Pensions"....

Palmy

Thanks for that link Geordieborn-lots of useful info.

Travelling now with our Motorhome in Abruzzo trying to find that house before the end of the year. Constantly reminded of what a beautiful country this is!

Geordieborn

If you like the vino, look out San Lorenzo in Castilenti, wonderful wine... and great place!