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Healthcare... here it is again...

Healthcare... here it is again...

Old Jun 4th 2018, 8:40 am
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Default Healthcare... here it is again...

Firstly, apologies for repeating some parts, but every case I read or hear about is different, so I have a few questions to see if anyone has the same situation...

I've been in Italy now for 8 months, have been a resident for 5 months, work for an Italian company and pay taxes.

For the past 3 months I have tried to get healthcare and for 3 months have been denied.

I went to my local ASL and brought all the documents you are supposed to; Passport, Codice Fiscale, proof of Residency, work contract and my payslips for 3 months.

The woman on the desk said I needed proof from England that says "i am no longer covered by the NHS". Fair enough. She also told me this is the E104 form.

Here's my problem. I'm 25, moving abroad to live permanently and am NOT looking for England to support my medical expenses. I have read through most of these E forms and none of them seem eligible. I also called my surgery in England and they refused to help me or give me a telephone consultation to discuss with my Doctor. I have read about the S1 form, but according to the gov.uk website I am again not eligible...

Any of this sound familiar?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,

Simon
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Old Jun 4th 2018, 10:17 am
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

In my experience, this just sounds plain wrong. I think the S1 form is for retired people.

I would suggest going back to the ASL and basically telling them you disagree with their interpretation - indeed, if you go back you may well end up talking to someone different who will have a different interpretation of the "rules".

For my part, I am self-employed and each year I go along and sign a self-declaration that I was fiscally resident in Italy. No need to sever any links with the UK!

There's a bit of info here which you could try to use to push back against any similar requests: Assistenza sanitaria agli stranieri

Stand your ground & good luck!
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Old Jun 4th 2018, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

I think the reason you find conflicting information is the fact most official bodies don't have a clue what's going on in such a ever changing environment. In the UK this is the official guide - an NHS link. But they refer to an Italian link that no longer exists. They also will give various DWP contact details or HMRC. So it is little wonder people find it hard. The fact the ASL are telling you that you need an obsolete Form E104 would indicate their level of competence. You either have to go back and (nicely) argue it out with them or get confirmation in writing that they are not doing their job correctly. One way may be to get the UK body previously responsible for issuing the E104 to give you such confirmation. I suspect these days that's HMRC, but then again it could be DWP. I would look at the link, find a number for either and call it. Most of the time it takes an age to get through, but when you do they are (in the main) very helpful. As an aside, as far as I know you are covered in Italy for at least urgent medical help by just being there and no one I know has ever been refused treatment. If you still have an EH1C it's likey to still be accepted (should not be really). Good luck!
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Old Jun 4th 2018, 11:27 am
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

I have noticed in our ASL office that there are helpful advisors and unhelpful ones. I got my tessera sanitaria with the same documents that you mention. I would just try again on a different day and time.
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Old Jun 4th 2018, 12:38 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Thank you for the advice everyone.

I'm leaving a note now for everyone else who may encounter this, HMRC and the Overseas Healthcare Team have just told me they will not supply a letter/document to assist you in getting healthcare abroad unless you are in France or Spain. They wash their hands of the other countries, but the woman couldn't tell me why.

So I will be returning to the ASL armed to the teeth with paperwork and fingers crossed this time I can get somewhere... che palle...
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Old Jun 4th 2018, 1:11 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Brexit is not improving the sentiment towards UK citizens at the moment. A few weeks ago the headline on the Umbria RAI was something like local farmers will lose their EU farm payments because of the UK exiting the EU. That sort of news wether true or false filters down to already fed up public workers.
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Old Jun 4th 2018, 1:37 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Originally Posted by Geordieborn
I think the reason you find conflicting information is the fact most official bodies don't have a clue what's going on in such a ever changing environment. In the UK this is the official guide - an NHS link. But they refer to an Italian link that no longer exists. They also will give various DWP contact details or HMRC. So it is little wonder people find it hard. The fact the ASL are telling you that you need an obsolete Form E104 would indicate their level of competence. You either have to go back and (nicely) argue it out with them or get confirmation in writing that they are not doing their job correctly. One way may be to get the UK body previously responsible for issuing the E104 to give you such confirmation. I suspect these days that's HMRC, but then again it could be DWP. I would look at the link, find a number for either and call it. Most of the time it takes an age to get through, but when you do they are (in the main) very helpful. As an aside, as far as I know you are covered in Italy for at least urgent medical help by just being there and no one I know has ever been refused treatment. If you still have an EH1C it's likey to still be accepted (should not be really). Good luck!
Sorry to disagree Geordieborn, but an EHIC should without doubt still be accepted, and continue to be so until such time as the UK Leaves the EU (unless something dramatic happens, 19 March 2019). After that it depends on what, if any, transition arrangements are in place.

And when you say "urgent medical help" I presume you mean hospital Emergency services? If so, then it's not even contingent on an EHIC - in a genuine Emergency everyone, regardless of origin, legal/illegal status etc, is entitled to treatment.

However, to return to the original OP's query, I concur with GeorgeYoung and philat98 in that you are entitled to enter the system. And also, that the path of least resistance is to go back to the ASL and try to see a different person. Yes, it is possible to force the issue with the same person, but public servants are usually very, very reluctant to change their minds (i.e. admit to being wrong), and the more you push the more they are inclined to push back. A good Plan B, if you are working for a large company, is to speak to their HR department and see if they can help out.

Last edited by Serrano; Jun 4th 2018 at 1:44 pm.
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Old Jun 4th 2018, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

EHIC is not for use where the holder has become resident in another EU State. It is for those who are temporarily away.
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Old Jun 5th 2018, 6:11 am
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

With your work contract, you are entitled to be registered at the ASL and have a GP. I would very respectfully ask to see the director, as you took all the documentation you needed under the law.
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Old Jun 5th 2018, 6:52 am
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Originally Posted by modicasa
With your work contract, you are entitled to be registered at the ASL and have a GP. I would very respectfully ask to see the director, as you took all the documentation you needed under the law.
I agree. You have an ITALIAN work contract which means you are automatically paying into the system here. Try taking your last pay slip as well just as extra proof and don't give up. Let us know how you get on.
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Old Jun 7th 2018, 8:32 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Originally Posted by SHalstead
HMRC and the Overseas Healthcare Team have just told me they will not supply a letter/document to assist you in getting healthcare abroad unless you are in France or Spain. They wash their hands of the other countries, but the woman couldn't tell me why.
That's funny because if you're in France they tell you they won't send you a letter, the French healthcare organisation CPAM will have to contact them direct..
Perhaps whatever country you say you're in, they pick two different countries and say they could help you if you lived there
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Old Jun 9th 2018, 1:41 am
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Originally Posted by philat98
Brexit is not improving the sentiment towards UK citizens at the moment. A few weeks ago the headline on the Umbria RAI was something like local farmers will lose their EU farm payments because of the UK exiting the EU. That sort of news wether true or false filters down to already fed up public workers.
I disagree with that sentiment entirely. They aren't being nasty to him because the UK is leaving the EU or because of news reports about farm payments. They didn't understand the rules or didn't understand what OP was asking.

Concur with the others. Try again.
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Old Jan 16th 2019, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Originally Posted by SHalstead
Firstly, apologies for repeating some parts, but every case I read or hear about is different, so I have a few questions to see if anyone has the same situation...

I've been in Italy now for 8 months, have been a resident for 5 months, work for an Italian company and pay taxes.

For the past 3 months I have tried to get healthcare and for 3 months have been denied.

I went to my local ASL and brought all the documents you are supposed to; Passport, Codice Fiscale, proof of Residency, work contract and my payslips for 3 months.

The woman on the desk said I needed proof from England that says "i am no longer covered by the NHS". Fair enough. She also told me this is the E104 form.

Here's my problem. I'm 25, moving abroad to live permanently and am NOT looking for England to support my medical expenses. I have read through most of these E forms and none of them seem eligible. I also called my surgery in England and they refused to help me or give me a telephone consultation to discuss with my Doctor. I have read about the S1 form, but according to the gov.uk website I am again not eligible...

Any of this sound familiar?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,

Simon

I'm glad I found this thread!! We relocated here from Scotland 4 months ago. We have residency in place, taking out 2 x annual health insurance policies as part of those requirements. We've been to ASL with residency docs, codice fiscale, insurance docs etc and were told we needed S1 forms. I approached HMRC and today received a letter saying we are now out with UK social security jurisdiction, so we need to approach Italian health care system.

My husband is retired and has a vocational pension, I worked for 20 years in public sector. Neither of us are working in Italy and are below for UK state pension age. I think this is where our circumstances don't easily fit a box. We don't rely on Italy for benefits and we seem to be supporting the economy well via purchases etc!!
I'm going to go back to ASL to challenge their position. Good grief it shouldn't be this tricky should it! Imagine trying to do this post Brexit?!
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Old Jan 16th 2019, 5:33 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Originally Posted by Greengo
I'm glad I found this thread!! We relocated here from Scotland 4 months ago. We have residency in place, taking out 2 x annual health insurance policies as part of those requirements. We've been to ASL with residency docs, codice fiscale, insurance docs etc and were told we needed S1 forms. I approached HMRC and today received a letter saying we are now out with UK social security jurisdiction, so we need to approach Italian health care system.

My husband is retired and has a vocational pension, I worked for 20 years in public sector. Neither of us are working in Italy and are below for UK state pension age. I think this is where our circumstances don't easily fit a box. We don't rely on Italy for benefits and we seem to be supporting the economy well via purchases etc!!
I'm going to go back to ASL to challenge their position. Good grief it shouldn't be this tricky should it! Imagine trying to do this post Brexit?!
Funny enough your position “early retirement” is the most common one I’ve ever come across. This is probably due to the fact most don’t seem to take this into account before moving and find it very frustrating when they hit the brick wall. Unfortunately the “goal posts” were moved some time ago and you cannot get a “form S1” until you are in receipt of a UK (or other EU) state pension (Brexit apart).
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Old Jan 16th 2019, 5:48 pm
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Default Re: Healthcare... here it is again...

Originally Posted by SHalstead
Firstly, apologies for repeating some parts, but every case I read or hear about is different, so I have a few questions to see if anyone has the same situation...

I've been in Italy now for 8 months, have been a resident for 5 months, work for an Italian company and pay taxes.

For the past 3 months I have tried to get healthcare and for 3 months have been denied.

I went to my local ASL and brought all the documents you are supposed to; Passport, Codice Fiscale, proof of Residency, work contract and my payslips for 3 months.

The woman on the desk said I needed proof from England that says "i am no longer covered by the NHS". Fair enough. She also told me this is the E104 form.

Here's my problem. I'm 25, moving abroad to live permanently and am NOT looking for England to support my medical expenses. I have read through most of these E forms and none of them seem eligible. I also called my surgery in England and they refused to help me or give me a telephone consultation to discuss with my Doctor. I have read about the S1 form, but according to the gov.uk website I am again not eligible...

Any of this sound familiar?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,

Simon
Originally Posted by Geordieborn
Funny enough your position “early retirement” is the most common one I’ve ever come across. This is probably due to the fact most don’t seem to take this into account before moving and find it very frustrating when they hit the brick wall. Unfortunately the “goal posts” were moved some time ago and you cannot get a “form S1” until you are in receipt of a UK (or other EU) state pension (Brexit apart).
You're so right about frustrations! We did lots of research including talking to embassies and HMRC in the lead up to making our decision to move and this point was never made clear. However, I feel well prepared to go back and try again. The benefits of being here make these frustrations worthwhile!
many thanks
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