Grow it yourself
 

Does anyone here have any advise for growing fruit and veg and having a few animals. This is not a 'Good Life' self-sufficiency type thing as I couldn't do without some shop bought things, but in essence is it possible to get most of your fresh food this way? What sort of season is there in Umbria for this...would a poly-tunnel be a good idea? What sort of things grow well and what don't compared to the UK. Specifically I'm thinking Umbria or possibly Marche. As ever, many thanks!

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Everything grows, unfortunately the weeds best of all! You can have fruit and veg all year around, but growing conditions are very different to the UK. Water, water and more water, so you need water, except in winter…. Fruit trees will also need water and weed suppressant (thick cardboard with a few stones on will do) in the first 2-3 years. A poly-tunnel , well perhaps, but a friend had to rescue this greenhouse from an olive grove 50m away… You will find many Italians jar everything and some hardly ever buy fruit and veg, although I think it is becoming less common.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Umbria and the Marche are perfect for vegetable gardening. You need a water supply for the summer months. A polytunnel is good for winter greens and early tomatoes. There are plenty of abandoned plots but reliable water supplies are not so easy to find. Tap water is too expensive and may not even be legal to use.
Are you thinking of the Marche now?
In the current crisis it is not legal to travel to an allotment in Umbria.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Thanks both! Geordieborn I know the feeling about weeds...pfftt! Although I am also on lockdown here in the Uk, I'm lucky enough to have a garden and a greenhouse, which I why, when out in the garden I started wondering about over in Italy. Philat98 I was thinking about water and have seen some properties that do allegedly have water in the grounds, if that's true. No I'm not necessarily giving up on Umbria but I have travelled into Marche and so am trying not to be too closed off to any possibility. I'm more than aware that my budget is limiting but as I like simple things (gardening being one of them) as well as canning (which I currently do anyway) I'm starting to wonder if living a more 'rural' type of existence might permit me the move and if Umbria proved too expensive then maybe I could look elsewhere. I am aware that heating is an issue however and so if in a more rural property what is the best type of heating to look for other than wood burners?

On a separate note: I have had some promising possible work which I could do from my home. I did read somewhere though that doing any freelance journalist type work I would need a license/qualification in Italy. Is that correct?

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I like the Marche. The land is more fertile than Umbria, not so steep and I suspect the summer rainfall is better. To heat a house with a woodburner from November to March you would have to cut quite a bit of wood every year.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Sansa (olive waste), wood and then pellet in order of cost to heat, mixed with solar for DHW in summer.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I didnt know you could burn sansa. Is it any good?

Re: Grow it yourself
 

We found it to be superb and very cheap, but we did also have a wood burner as back-up and the fact we love them. We bought wood at around €150/1200kg at 2-3 per year depending on how much of our own we had. Sansa at €250/1200kg we would buy 2-3 as we used it all year for water, very bad to do, but no solar. Interesting thing was the sansa with one burn could keep the water hot for 4 days in summer. Think the outlay for a new burner would be the drawback as they cost an awful lot. These days you can get them that burn sansa and/or pellets.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

We find pulling weeds up by hand and then sprinkling roots with salt works well.We feed a few local cats and nearly killed one last year with weedkiller.Puts our mind at ease and it works.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I use weedkiller too but not out of choice as I would rather not use it but I spend more time in England than I do in Italy so don't have the option. How did the weedkiller affect your cat out of interest..? Did you spray it directly or did the cat eat something which was contaminated. There are always cats in my Italian garden but so far I've had no weedkiller associated problems that I'm aware of.

Yes, everything will grow in Italy, and as mentioned above, the weeds most of all. My biggest gardening mistake when I first got my place out there was not attending to the weeds with the necessary level of awareness required and in no time at all found myself with an almost impenetrable 2 acre jungle of 6 ft high thorny, spiky horrors. I now spend large amounts of time on every trip fastidiously dealing with them with the strimmer and provided I can be there for at least a month in both spring and autumn can keep them reasoably well managed. I still have to apply weedkiller at least once a year though.

Hens are always a good bet for a regular supply of eggs but you'll be more or less guaranteed rats to go with them so you'll need to be prepared to deal with them too. I just got meself 4 lovely little hens here in the UK because for 3 weeks I haven't been able to find a single egg in the supermarkets, but almost straight away I'm getting the unwanted night time visitors burrowing under the fence to get in to the hen run for any leftover seed on the ground. Traps aren't working so far and as far as I can see my cats are being a bit blase about it, but I'm persevering.

I've always wanted a goat too. If I ever go to live in Italy I'll probably get one.

Here are a couple of pics. Same patch of land with the pics taken at opposite ends of the plot... first one is with the weeds, and the second one is a few weeks after treatment with weedkiller. It's well worth it.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...65ed81b899.jpg


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...d7e67df500.jpg

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Thats a powerful weedkiller. I just use a strimmer. Do you harvest your olives Jake?

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Hi,she ate some grass that we sprayed.She hid under our barbeque for a few days not eating.She recovered ok.Our Russian neighbours give it to us in a dilutable powder,I think it was industrial strength Roundup.I think they said they got it from a place called Chernobyl,lol.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Ah, I should perhaps have mentioned that I had to clear the whole lot first before doing the weedkilling.. :( The first pic was taken in early August when they were all sitting there dead and horribly spiky. After clearing them to ground level with the strimmer I applied weedkiller as soon as they started growing again at the beginning of September and that dealt with them quickly. They do still come back every spring though...

The lower pic was taken towards the end of October, so I guess the 'few weeks' I mentioned was more like 10-12 weeks between the two pics and involved a good bit of hard graft with strimmer and rake in between..as well as some lovely garden fires too..

No I don't harvest them as I'm never there at the right time. My neighbour was doing it for me but he sold up and moved away last year so I'm swithering about either trying to be there at the right time to do it myself or trying to find someone I can trust to do it for me.. Trouble is, if I go over so late in the season to do it myself I'll miss my almonds and walnuts, and I sometimes manage to get some delicious plums from my tree too if I'm early enough, but that means going at the end of August which is still blistering hot in Puglia. Way too hot for me in my old age.. It's a dilemma.....

Re: Grow it yourself
 

The stuff I use is pretty strong too. I get it in concentrated liquid form from the local Agri supplier in a 20 ltr container. When I first used the stuff I didn't have a clue and was using a dilution ratio of 1:2 which is utterly ludicrous and would probably knock an elephant over, but I soon learned and now use a ratio of 1:40. It takes a wee bit longer to work at the lower dilution but still does the trick.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Ours is just the communal lawn outside our complex of 6 houses.We potter around pulling weeds up every few days.We're the only ones living here on a regular basis,keeps us busy especially now.We brought a handful of cherry tomato seeds over last year,the ones that are different colours.They were quite successful,doing the same this year. Coriander grows well here,love it with our curries,cheers,Brian.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I have to say I'm very impressed with all your weed killing ideas... And quite shocked by the height of the weeds Jake.White! So I'm guessing that water is an issue and weeds too. But that said is it worth it to grow your own rather than buy at markets? If I managed to get somewhere in the hills (not way up but 15 mins or shout of a town) what other wildlife should I be aware of, both for growing stuff and my cats?

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Obviously it depends exactly where you are, because you're talking about regions that are quite mountainous and wild in parts and it can vary widely, but in addition to things you might encounter in the UK (rabbits, deer, etc) there are more of the things that are rare in the UK (snakes, wild boar, etc) and also things you won't usually find in the UK (mosquitoes, scorpions, porcupines, wolves, even bears).

Never seen a wolf or bear personally (I have seen all of the others), and I live on the border with Umbria.

The local farmers keep packs of dogs to protect their sheep from wolves. The dogs live with the sheep so I guess they might potentially be a problem to your cats, but it's unlikely. The cats will just climb a tree or something. The biggest problem for your cats is likely to be all the other stray cats that will be living nearby - though most cats tend to sort themselves out and avoid actual physical fights if they can - more likely a lot of noise, and then you'll find the strays join decide to come and live with you!

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I suspect that grow it yourself is going to be popular this year. In my village there are abandoned vines and olive trees everywhere because nobody was interested.
I cannot understand why they are not allowing small cultivators to go to their land and work alone. If they dont prune the trees they dont get any oil. A lot of oil in Umbria comes from small farmers.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Yes the weeds are a nightmare and you have to battle them constantly to keep them down. I suspect that will be the case everywhere in Italy as the whole place is so lush. Depends where you are re water being an issue. Down in Puglia we have two very dry months in July and August where it doesn't rain much apart from the odd summer storm which can reach monsoon proportions but never lasts long. At all other times of year it rains fairly often. If I had the option to grow my own stuff I would because that's what I do here in England both in my garden and at my allotment. You can grow anything you like in Italy if you have the time to plant, then tend your garden till your stuff grows and ripens : tomatoes, peppers, artichokes, all the herbs, all the fruits and nuts, anything you like really.

Wildlife..? As noted above : more so than in England. Bears and wolves can be seen if you're incredibly lucky, but really only in the mountains and more remote regions. Snakes are a favourite of mine and in my own garden I have seen the European Leopard Snake which is quite beautiful green and brown. I caught a tiny one sunbathing on my veranda one morning and when I picked him up he was so furious that he bit me hard on the hand but his jaws were so tiny that he made no impression. I let him go in the garden. These guys grow to about 4-5 ft long and I wouldn't risk picking one of the big lads up if the little ones reaction was anything to go by.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ratsnake

I've also seen a few of the Montpelier snake which is a little black one which grows to about the same size as the Leopard Snake and is also quite beautiful to observe.

https://www.understandingitaly.com/snakes.html

We also have The European Viper which is venomous but probably not deadly to a young (ish) adult in good health.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipera_aspis

Personally I've yet to see one of those but both my wife and my daughter claim to have spotted them in our garden. The thing about snakes is, if humans are around, they just want to get away and get on with their business and they'll certainly never want to come looking for you to bother you, so if you ever happen to spot one, look on it as a privilege rather than a problem. We also have lots of birds of prey such as owls of different types as well as buzzards and other hawks and falcons. I happened to come across a Little Owl in my garden one morning lying on his back and quite helpless. I reckoned he had had a stroke as there was no evidence of injury on him. I put him in a box and managed to get some fluid into him with a dropper but he wouldn't eat and died two days later, poor little fella. There's lots of other stuff, just have a look around on google..

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I did wonder if anyone would be allowed to go out and work their individual plots of land. I guess it must be the same Italy-wide then with no one allowed out of their houses. I'm sitting here in England biting my nails and fretting about my weeds but I suppose everyone must be in the same boat..

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Sardinia is allowing small farmers to cultivate the land. My partner is a beekeeper and that permits her to visit the hives. With swarming at this time of year hive visits are important. The roads are completely empty so no danger of spreading any infection.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

No, it's probably not Italy-wide, the rules aren't the same everywhere. Each region, province, commune has their own rules in addition to national ones.

I'm surprised by Philat's comment. Here people tending plots of land that produce food can work I think. They seem to be. Maybe it's a rule for Umbria? Or maybe it's about going outside your commune? My neighbour, who farms several sort-of market gardens for a local restaurant and agriturismo, tells me that there's not a lot to do on his olive grove at this time of year. But maybe he's just up to date with everything...

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Olive pruning is done between March and May in Umbria. Agricoltori professionisti are permitted to work the land in Umbria but not Agricoltori hobbisti. I wonder if big farmers want to block production from small farms to push up prices.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

We do our olive pruning in Puglia at this time of year too. I'd intended to get 15 of my trees hard pruned this year but I doubt it'll happen now unless things change fast, which I doubt...

Re: Grow it yourself
 

The farmers say "Chi ha degli olivi sa che senza potatura avrà delle brutte sorprese sotto l'albero." Quite a few will be in for a nasty surprise in November. Some farmers do an Autumn pruning so they will be OK. I suspect that a lot of the small farmers here are scared to even open the front door.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I cut down a mature fig tree 4 yrs ago and the wife went ballistic. So i broke off 4 twigs from the tree, stuck them in the ground and told her i had prepped them and replanted them. I thought it would help calm her down and was certain that the twigs would just wither away and all would be forgotten. Anyway, 4 yrs later and the trees have been producing an abundance of fruit every year, i have to use a step ladder to reach the fruit at high level. Tomatoes are another thing we have had great success at growing. The clay soil seems to be very fertile where we are. We are lucky enough to be able to draw water from a canal alongside our house. The last couple of years i have been sheet mulching and covering the sheeting with top soil for dressing. It helps keep weeds down and maintain water retention in the soil. So i don't have to water as much as i had been.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I combine plastic mulch with drip tubes. In my stony clay soil a row of 15 Roma tomatoes produces around 30kg of fruit without any supports or maintenance required. The plastic also protects against soil erosion.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

This to me is a great way forward and the kind of thing we would have done with young fruit trees. I would still double-dig any new land to start with. Another tip we had from a local was to bury almost every veg plant to plant it in a hole just under a spade or so deep. This worked very well especially for tomatoes. So plant as normal, but in the hole, sometime whereby the tom is not even peeping over the top, then water to almost flooding it, once the water has sunk in sprinkle half a cm or more soil around the hole, don’t water for 3-4 days unless heavy wilting of course, then start normal watering as needed and after each water build up a little more soil. This does a number of things; protects the young plant from any blazing sun, stops as much water evaporation, protects from the wind and in toms encourages side growth root from the buried stalk. I used to eventually end up with very strong rooted toms with the soil level being often slightly above ground level by the end of the season. Between rows we used to put grass cuttings 20-30cm deep at the start of the season, lot of this was clover cuttings, so quite beneficial, this allowed us to walk on the plot still after any heavy rain. We would plant through last year’s mulch the next year i.e. moving rows in rotation. This would have likely been much better with Johnbologna’s methods. Note, avoid any heavy inked cardboard if you can.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

We put about 20 tomato plants in last year and got fed up of picking them, they just kept on coming back!
Everything we plant seems to do well - lots of watering needed - with the exception of swedes, for some reason.
Whereabouts in Puglia are you Jake? Might be interested in the olives.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I'll PM you

Re: Grow it yourself
 

Here in the UK, a bit like yourselves, we're unable to get out and buy plants or seeds and online they've virtually all sold out or cost £10 per seed as people cash in on the shortage. However just in case, like me, you haven't heard of this before, I came across a brilliant idea for growing directly from the veg you're eating now. And so far it's working...

For tomatoes: take a slice across the tomato and put this in it's entirety into some compost and cover loosely. Water and wait about 10 days. New tomato seedlings growing from the slice. The tomato slice adds moisture to the seeds and as it rots down also helps add goodness. I may never have to buy tomatoes/seeds again!

Basil: take a small cutting and place in water until roots grow (about 10 days also), then plant into compost. Never-ending basil. Always a good thing.

Leeks/Salad Onions: After chopping keep the base and place in water. This then sprouts new tops and can be used again.

Peppers: Cut in half longways. Rub the seeds a bit and then put compost inside the pepper. Water. After a couple of weeks new seedlings emerge a bit like the tomato.

Mushrooms: Take unused mushroom stalks or gone over mushrooms and whizz up in a blender. Poor this directly onto damp soil or compost in a darkish place and in shade and watch the mushrooms come up during the next few weeks

I'm sure all of this is nothing new, but I'm amazed that it's working so well. Might be an option if you're also stuck?

Re: Grow it yourself
 

The trouble with your plan is that the varieties that farmers grow are usually not the ones you want in your garden. Their main concern is the durability of the product. Two of my favourite tomatoes are Sungold and Pera d'Abruzzo and I have never seen them for sale in a supermarket.
There doesnt seem to be any seed shortage in Italy and they are very cheap here.

Re: Grow it yourself
 

I think the trouble is that only the basil works to any extent, and then limited....