Patty

Just wondering if the global crisis has affected anyone here in Italy yet?
I work in a large factory and this week alot of people have been made to stay at home - mostly taking the time off their holiday allowance. As teachers we are obviously one of the most 'superficial' costs - so its a bit scarey. Some of the people have told me that if they have no holidays then they may have to take cassa integrazione (which is hard to translate - its a sort of forced temporary redundancy).
Has anyone else any stories ?? Do you think this is just the beginning ?

chris120

Cassa integrazione was invented by Giovanni Agnelli and FIAT, they and the other industrial groups (IVECO, AVIO etc) do this often towards the end of the year, its not that unusual.

selinuntina

There's v high unemployment in our town but thats a lot to do with the fact our biggest employer was arrested just before xmas last year for "allegedly" being the big boss mans banker . He'd just built a big centro commerciale and loads of people were employed. The finanza are running it now and have cut down loads of hours.
DH is olive picking and there's loads of people doing it this year, once that finishes there will be loads of umemployed.
Not sure about people getting laid off as most people here don't work in regola.

Lorna at Vicenza

Cassa Intergrazione is not always that unusual in Italy as it's a well known and used method of cutting costs. I think Patty was trying to say that it is not known or used in the UK that much, so it's hard to find a real definition of it. In the UK you are either usually redundant or employed. (or on the dole)

A similar expression in English might be "temporarily laid off".

But as in cassa intergrazione that could esily become permanent.

The biggest lay offs in my area are not happening now but happened a while back when some of the biggest textile companies in the area closed down. Apparently this part of Northern Italy was also nicknamed "little manchester" because of the huge textile industry which is huge no longer.
In the last year or two marble and granite machinery factories have been working at a loss too as even though people are still buying the raw goods they are not buying the new machinery but making do and mend with what they have.

Lorna at Vicenza

sorry guys - wrong person involved in my blurb ........ it wasn't Patty's but Chris' comment I was referring to. Plus a bit of my own.

nbrome

The ones on cassa integrazione or unemployment pay after redundancy are the lucky ones.
Italy does have unemployment pay, on paper, but it's awfully hard to get. Your job has to have been regular, you have to have been dismissed etc etc. Nothing covers people who have been working in nero, or who left because of other reasons, many of which could be considered valid. In any case if your problem becomes longer term the benefit runs out. There is no social security for people who don't qualify for contributary benefits.
I'm a social worker and I work in the social services of the Rome local authority. We see all kinds of people who can't manage on what they have (this is mainly pensioners) or what they don't have. And by the way, being the local authority our clientele, if foreigners, are those with all their documents and every right to be here.
Every year we get about 700 claims from pensioners whose rent is more than their pension. They usually get a pittance of 2-300 euros once a year from us. The adults can only ask for a "contribution" once in a lifetime and have to show they will use the money to solve their problems (for ever?). In other words if they have no job, no home, no income etc they won't get anything 'cos it's just money down the drain.
The vast majority of people who ask for help are "normal" people, the likes of which I never saw working in social services in the uk. Oh, and not one of them has ever qualified for unemployment pay.

selinuntina

Wow, I knew it was bad but not that bad.One of the reasons we are leaving is because here in Sicily a job "in regola" is so hard to find. DH just wants to do an honest days work but has only been offered pittance and "in nero".
My SIL last year worked in a sports shop. She was "in regola" and her busta paga was 1200 euro a month. She worked 6 days a week full time. They made her sign the busta paga but then only gave her 300 euro !!!!!! she felt she had no choice as there were plenty of peole ready to take her place. Signing for the full amount though meant she still had to pay full price for medicines etc.
I think the system needs a huge overhaul, to help the elderly. If they have no family to live with its a no win situation for them.

Mr Posh

wow now that is scary: I knew that italy was currupt and things went on But signing for busta paga and only getting 300 euros. did she say or do anything about it? Did it happen more then once? Bugger i feel so sorry for her !!!!!!!

chris120

there were plenty of peole ready to take her place - at EU50 a day!
I can't believe that there are people that poor in Italy. Where i live even the illegals won't work for much less than 100 a day.

selinuntina

yes for about 6 months, until DH heard about it and told her either to leave or report them, she left. Its very common here. There's so little work that people really are prepared to work for anything. I was offered a job last year, a guy looking for a secretary who spoke english, use a computer and run his office. I was a PA back in UK so fit the bill. He offered me 200 euros a month but "couldn't" put me in regola I declined.
Round these parts 100 euro a month in regola is like finding gold.

selinuntina

I think the difference is here a lot of peole live with their families. Even when they get married they usually live in the same house as the parents. We've been scraping by on average 700 euro a month for the past 2 years. We don't have rent or mortgage to pay but we have accumalated debts through just trying to get by.

chris120

700 a month, 200 a month, 100 a month! Why hang around, go back to UK

selinuntina

We are next thursday
DH is from here though so leaving his home village is a wrench, for all of us it is.
Dh has alreday got a job in UK funnily enough with an Italian company.

duffer

Yeah it's sad. The husband of my OH's friend got a job in a factory, owned by someone they knew, with a permanent contract, BUT he had to sign his letter of resignation in advance!!! W@nkers. In the end he found another job and told them to stuff it.

nbrome

And we live in the same place! Who do you speak to?
Come and visit me at work any day and see the other side. We have only the legal immigrants. Lots of refugees looking for work and no sign of work or benefit of any kind. Rome is just not that good a place to find factory or building work anyway.
Anyway, I don't want to dwell on immigrants. Just one example of an Italian in difficulty, one of many: someone who has worked alot in nero through necessity, brought up a family, paid rent, has children maybe at university or just finishing school, his health fails (tumour, dialysis, serious accident etc) and just can't work full stop. He has absolutely no income. No sick pay, no unemployment, no social security. Maybe family members try to get jobs and pay the rent. But maybe they can't manage and they get evicted eventually. Maybe they end up in shelters, and they actually stay there 'cos there is no way out. If you don't have a family to support you then it's the end.
I'm not making this up, I could give you lots of examples.