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Re: Awkward
And let's remember that unexploded ordnance is being found regularly in continental Europe!
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Re: Awkward
Several decades ago I lived in Torino, one Easter my parents came to stay for a week and, when I introduced them to my landlord (who was of a similar age as my parents), my landlord asked my Dad if he had been to Italy before. My Dad replied that although he had never actually set foot in Italy he had been close. My landlord asked "how close"? My Dad replied "about 22,000 feet!"
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Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by chris120
(Post 13252283)
My Dad replied "about 22,000 feet!"
----- Re C.2s I'm in category 3 (or maybe 2) on your scale of entitlement. My late grannies met each other when they were in a bomb shelter - they got married after the war. They would tell me plenty of wartime stories, which I enjoyed listening to. But I certainly see where you're coming from - it must sound really odd when people start owning WW2 as though they had lived through those turbulent times. That said, I feel immensely grateful to the brave soldiers who sacrificed their lives for our peace. 'Lest we forget' doesn't and shouldn't ring hollow. |
Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by Finknottle
(Post 13252275)
And let's remember that unexploded ordnance is being found regularly in continental Europe!
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Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by daniel_t
(Post 13252322)
Nice one!
----- 'Lest we forget' doesn't and shouldn't ring hollow. I'm not suggesting we forget. It's reasonable that the vast majority of people only 'know' a simplified narrative of WW2. Even amongst historians there are only a few who might be able to claim to have a really profound knowledge of all aspects, given that it's such a broad subject. But that means that the 'story' that people know is inherently selected 'highlights', and then the question is who selected what to remember and what to forget? |
Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13252371)
Well yes, but not only continental Europe. There was a similar situation a of months ago in Plymouth.
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Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by Finknottle
(Post 13252397)
Indeed - but I think attitudes are a little different on the continent.
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Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13252487)
Interesting...in what way?
NB: Experiences may differ! NBB: Maybe your thread title was a bit tongue in cheek, don't know! |
Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13252246)
Well that's true. I was exaggerating a bit and maybe didn't make my point clearly. I'll try again.
I don't believe my personal view comes from an absence of knowledge about WW2. In fact I probably know more than the average person (having studied and taught the subject), but I reject the notion of any personal connection to it. I hear other British people talk about WW2 as if they have a close personal connection. Is that justified? ​​​​​​My opinion as follows: Category 1- fair enough if you fought in/lived through WW2 (you'd probably be over 100 years old now, but okay it's possible). Category 2- And okay it's fair enough if your mother/father/ older sibling etc fought in/lived through WW2 (but obviously less justified than category 1) Category 3 - Also fair enough if your grandfather etc told you about WW2 (but again less than category 1 and 2) Category 4 - getting quite tenuous if you have no family connection (or other direct connection) to anyone in the above categories. This category includes me Category 5. - the many millions of British people alive today that are second (or subsequent) generation immigrant I often hear people saying terms like "Our brave boys" , and then when you ask them it turns out they are either in category 4 or don't appreciate that they're rather thoughtlessly including all the category 4 and 5 people in their use of "we/us". And that can be a bit dangerous. It's funny because for the Boomers it was unfashionable to talk about WW2 in the 70s and 80s, but now it seems to be difficult for us to move forward. And also, sadly, the same people who keep talking about the war often don't seem to know much about it ​ |
Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by Finknottle
(Post 13252491)
in my experience (see above) the British tend to get more exercised about this sort of thing. Take your OP and the thread title - I saw both and thought, well, not a deal at all but maybe an opportunity for a passing comment or even a bit of humour - certainly nothing to feel awkward about.
NB: Experiences may differ! NBB: Maybe your thread title was a bit tongue in cheek, don't know! It was. And I agree with you about people in the military probably enjoying that I was being a bit goliardico (using banter). Is it different in the UK? Maybe publicly...I have some experience of working with people in various Public Services (military/nursing/police etc) in the UK and think that the black comedy/dark comedy/ gallows humour etc is quite common almost as a way of dealing with the situations they encounter that's quite difficult, and I shudder to think what the general public would make of some of it. So, yes I did intend humour. Hence my use of my strange smiley face after my OP. And then I thought "Hang on, I'm commenting on a public forum and perhaps not everyone will get my sense of humour, and this won't look good if the bomb explodes!" ... thankfully for everyone it didn't. |
Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by philat98
(Post 13252499)
Without Russian and US intervention we might have been under German colonial rule for 80years.
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Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13252504)
You quoted what I wrote...so is this a reply to what I wrote or just a general point? I don't understand it if it's meant as a reply
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Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13252501)
It was.
And I agree with you about people in the military probably enjoying that I was being a bit goliardico (using banter). Is it different in the UK? Maybe publicly...I have some experience of working with people in various Public Services (military/nursing/police etc) in the UK and think that the black comedy/dark comedy/ gallows humour etc is quite common almost as a way of dealing with the situations they encounter that's quite difficult, and I shudder to think what the general public would make of some of it. So, yes I did intend humour. Hence my use of my strange smiley face after my OP. And then I thought "Hang on, I'm commenting on a public forum and perhaps not everyone will get my sense of humour, and this won't look good if the bomb explodes!" ... thankfully for everyone it didn't. I do think the British have a different take on the war, not entirely surprising given the history, and the geography. Some of the posts above reflect that, I think. |
Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by philat98
(Post 13252507)
I was just saying that victory in Europe wasn't entirely down to our brave British boys.I think we are still stuck in the days of Empire.
​​​​​"Air Chief Marshal Dowding... would later write: ‘Had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of the battle would have been the same.'" (From www.rafmuseum.org.uk) Of course I'd say this should be taught in UK schools... but I would have to acknowledge that I am motivated to tell a certain version of history that fits with my modem political views :-) ​​ |
Re: Awkward
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13252515)
Oh I see. Absolutely agree. And not only Russians. and Americans. Contributions from Commonwealth countries, occupied countries,etc. such as Polish pilots in the Battle of Britain.
​​​​​"Air Chief Marshal Dowding... would later write: ‘Had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of the battle would have been the same.'" (From www.rafmuseum.org.uk) Of course I'd say this should be taught in UK schools... but I would have to acknowledge that I am motivated to tell a certain version of history that fits with my modem political views :-) ​​ |
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