About Queen Elizabeth
Sep 15th 2022, 7:11 pm
#16
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Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Central Italy
Posts: 3,660
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
Monarchism or republicanism aside - Her late Majesty selflessly dedicated her entire life to the service of our country and the Commonwealth.
The Royal Family is a marketing tool for British businesses abroad, as well as cultural symbol admired by many around the world.
Presidents come and go - some of them only work for selfish personal gains. Corrupt presidents fill their coffers until they get booted out of government.
Feel free to disagree though.
The Royal Family is a marketing tool for British businesses abroad, as well as cultural symbol admired by many around the world.
Presidents come and go - some of them only work for selfish personal gains. Corrupt presidents fill their coffers until they get booted out of government.
Feel free to disagree though.
Sep 17th 2022, 3:58 am
#18
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 346
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
Okay , here goes:
I'm not sure if it's possible to put monarchism or republicanism completely to one side, given that we're talking about that subject. I'm a republican. Given what you wrote you are probably pro-monarchy? However I think we could probably agree generally about Queen Elizabeth, even though I feel there's a bit of the "putting on a pedestal" effect that often happens when someone dies. I mean she wasn't all that popular after the death of Diana. Whilst I don't think the Queen was a saint I do think that on balance she did an extremely good job. Obviously being a republican I would still question whether that job should exist in the modern era.
And being a democrat I accept that the majority of people in the UK support the royal family. Though I think the minority of those who are anti monarchy is quite a big one... maybe 20%? Estimates vary wildly. Obviously there's a lot of strong support for the Queen, especially at the moment, but even if 20 million attend the funeral or visit the coffin, that still wouldn't represent a majority. I'm not sure that support extends to the whole family. I found the lack of enthusiasm for Charles (when he was Prince) amongst monarchists a bit weird. I prefer him because of the views he has expressed and the work of his charities. In a recent survey only 56% of people said they think the royal family "is a good thing". But people generally don't like change so I don't really see republicans winning if there was a referendum.
The tourism argument is always interesting, and it is possible to quote all sorts of different statistics. For example, if you look at the numbers of visitors to attractions the royal sites aren't that high. On the other hand about a third of foreign visitors say that the royal family was an important factor in their visit. We don't have to look very far for an example of a country with no monarchy: doesn't seem to have a big impact on the number of visitors to Paris or Rome... but again maybe the royal family is a unique selling point of 'the British brand '. And then there's the cost of the royal family to consider. This funeral is supposedly the biggest security operation since WWII. And days and days of disruption to business and paralysis of government in the midst of an economic crisis. It must be costing a fortune. Still, it would be a risk to get rid of the royal family. Probably not a good choice for the economy at the moment.
Presidents aren't the same in every country. Again Britain doesn't have to look far for some examples. You might not like a Macron but you could have a Higgins instead...Who? Higgins? (We all say) Exactly! He's Irish president. Tbh I had to Google it because he's not exactly internationally well known. Britain could choose what type of President it wanted. Higgins has very little power... it's not that different to the power of the Queen (or King now).
But ultimately all of the above argument about tourism, economy, role of the president,etc is secondary, because as you say, the President could be "booted out"... and this is of course exactly the point for anyone who is a republican and a democrat. That's precisely the argument for getting rid of the monarchy. If we got a corrupt King how would he be booted out?
​​​
PS. Tbf I have chosen to live in Italy so it's also perhaps not my business anymore 😃
I'm not sure if it's possible to put monarchism or republicanism completely to one side, given that we're talking about that subject. I'm a republican. Given what you wrote you are probably pro-monarchy? However I think we could probably agree generally about Queen Elizabeth, even though I feel there's a bit of the "putting on a pedestal" effect that often happens when someone dies. I mean she wasn't all that popular after the death of Diana. Whilst I don't think the Queen was a saint I do think that on balance she did an extremely good job. Obviously being a republican I would still question whether that job should exist in the modern era.
And being a democrat I accept that the majority of people in the UK support the royal family. Though I think the minority of those who are anti monarchy is quite a big one... maybe 20%? Estimates vary wildly. Obviously there's a lot of strong support for the Queen, especially at the moment, but even if 20 million attend the funeral or visit the coffin, that still wouldn't represent a majority. I'm not sure that support extends to the whole family. I found the lack of enthusiasm for Charles (when he was Prince) amongst monarchists a bit weird. I prefer him because of the views he has expressed and the work of his charities. In a recent survey only 56% of people said they think the royal family "is a good thing". But people generally don't like change so I don't really see republicans winning if there was a referendum.
The tourism argument is always interesting, and it is possible to quote all sorts of different statistics. For example, if you look at the numbers of visitors to attractions the royal sites aren't that high. On the other hand about a third of foreign visitors say that the royal family was an important factor in their visit. We don't have to look very far for an example of a country with no monarchy: doesn't seem to have a big impact on the number of visitors to Paris or Rome... but again maybe the royal family is a unique selling point of 'the British brand '. And then there's the cost of the royal family to consider. This funeral is supposedly the biggest security operation since WWII. And days and days of disruption to business and paralysis of government in the midst of an economic crisis. It must be costing a fortune. Still, it would be a risk to get rid of the royal family. Probably not a good choice for the economy at the moment.
Presidents aren't the same in every country. Again Britain doesn't have to look far for some examples. You might not like a Macron but you could have a Higgins instead...Who? Higgins? (We all say) Exactly! He's Irish president. Tbh I had to Google it because he's not exactly internationally well known. Britain could choose what type of President it wanted. Higgins has very little power... it's not that different to the power of the Queen (or King now).
But ultimately all of the above argument about tourism, economy, role of the president,etc is secondary, because as you say, the President could be "booted out"... and this is of course exactly the point for anyone who is a republican and a democrat. That's precisely the argument for getting rid of the monarchy. If we got a corrupt King how would he be booted out?
​​​
PS. Tbf I have chosen to live in Italy so it's also perhaps not my business anymore 😃
Sep 17th 2022, 6:25 am
#19
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 64
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
Okay , here goes:
I'm not sure if it's possible to put monarchism or republicanism completely to one side, given that we're talking about that subject. I'm a republican. Given what you wrote you are probably pro-monarchy? However I think we could probably agree generally about Queen Elizabeth, even though I feel there's a bit of the "putting on a pedestal" effect that often happens when someone dies. I mean she wasn't all that popular after the death of Diana. Whilst I don't think the Queen was a saint I do think that on balance she did an extremely good job. Obviously being a republican I would still question whether that job should exist in the modern era.
And being a democrat I accept that the majority of people in the UK support the royal family. Though I think the minority of those who are anti monarchy is quite a big one... maybe 20%? Estimates vary wildly. Obviously there's a lot of strong support for the Queen, especially at the moment, but even if 20 million attend the funeral or visit the coffin, that still wouldn't represent a majority. I'm not sure that support extends to the whole family. I found the lack of enthusiasm for Charles (when he was Prince) amongst monarchists a bit weird. I prefer him because of the views he has expressed and the work of his charities. In a recent survey only 56% of people said they think the royal family "is a good thing". But people generally don't like change so I don't really see republicans winning if there was a referendum.
The tourism argument is always interesting, and it is possible to quote all sorts of different statistics. For example, if you look at the numbers of visitors to attractions the royal sites aren't that high. On the other hand about a third of foreign visitors say that the royal family was an important factor in their visit. We don't have to look very far for an example of a country with no monarchy: doesn't seem to have a big impact on the number of visitors to Paris or Rome... but again maybe the royal family is a unique selling point of 'the British brand '. And then there's the cost of the royal family to consider. This funeral is supposedly the biggest security operation since WWII. And days and days of disruption to business and paralysis of government in the midst of an economic crisis. It must be costing a fortune. Still, it would be a risk to get rid of the royal family. Probably not a good choice for the economy at the moment.
Presidents aren't the same in every country. Again Britain doesn't have to look far for some examples. You might not like a Macron but you could have a Higgins instead...Who? Higgins? (We all say) Exactly! He's Irish president. Tbh I had to Google it because he's not exactly internationally well known. Britain could choose what type of President it wanted. Higgins has very little power... it's not that different to the power of the Queen (or King now).
But ultimately all of the above argument about tourism, economy, role of the president,etc is secondary, because as you say, the President could be "booted out"... and this is of course exactly the point for anyone who is a republican and a democrat. That's precisely the argument for getting rid of the monarchy. If we got a corrupt King how would he be booted out?
​​​
PS. Tbf I have chosen to live in Italy so it's also perhaps not my business anymore 😃
I'm not sure if it's possible to put monarchism or republicanism completely to one side, given that we're talking about that subject. I'm a republican. Given what you wrote you are probably pro-monarchy? However I think we could probably agree generally about Queen Elizabeth, even though I feel there's a bit of the "putting on a pedestal" effect that often happens when someone dies. I mean she wasn't all that popular after the death of Diana. Whilst I don't think the Queen was a saint I do think that on balance she did an extremely good job. Obviously being a republican I would still question whether that job should exist in the modern era.
And being a democrat I accept that the majority of people in the UK support the royal family. Though I think the minority of those who are anti monarchy is quite a big one... maybe 20%? Estimates vary wildly. Obviously there's a lot of strong support for the Queen, especially at the moment, but even if 20 million attend the funeral or visit the coffin, that still wouldn't represent a majority. I'm not sure that support extends to the whole family. I found the lack of enthusiasm for Charles (when he was Prince) amongst monarchists a bit weird. I prefer him because of the views he has expressed and the work of his charities. In a recent survey only 56% of people said they think the royal family "is a good thing". But people generally don't like change so I don't really see republicans winning if there was a referendum.
The tourism argument is always interesting, and it is possible to quote all sorts of different statistics. For example, if you look at the numbers of visitors to attractions the royal sites aren't that high. On the other hand about a third of foreign visitors say that the royal family was an important factor in their visit. We don't have to look very far for an example of a country with no monarchy: doesn't seem to have a big impact on the number of visitors to Paris or Rome... but again maybe the royal family is a unique selling point of 'the British brand '. And then there's the cost of the royal family to consider. This funeral is supposedly the biggest security operation since WWII. And days and days of disruption to business and paralysis of government in the midst of an economic crisis. It must be costing a fortune. Still, it would be a risk to get rid of the royal family. Probably not a good choice for the economy at the moment.
Presidents aren't the same in every country. Again Britain doesn't have to look far for some examples. You might not like a Macron but you could have a Higgins instead...Who? Higgins? (We all say) Exactly! He's Irish president. Tbh I had to Google it because he's not exactly internationally well known. Britain could choose what type of President it wanted. Higgins has very little power... it's not that different to the power of the Queen (or King now).
But ultimately all of the above argument about tourism, economy, role of the president,etc is secondary, because as you say, the President could be "booted out"... and this is of course exactly the point for anyone who is a republican and a democrat. That's precisely the argument for getting rid of the monarchy. If we got a corrupt King how would he be booted out?
​​​
PS. Tbf I have chosen to live in Italy so it's also perhaps not my business anymore 😃
I just wanted to comment on the paragraph about tourist attractions. As you live in Italy too, you will probably agree with me that we have endless tourist attractions, from historical monuments, art galleries, museums, breathtaking coastlines, mountains, lakes, hillsides, gastronomical miracles, I always call Italy : "Un museo a cielo aperto". It would take months to visit all the beauty we have here. Now, I don't want to minimise or put down our good old United Kingdom as I was born in London, lived there for the first 26 yrs of my life, and extremely proud and honored to have been brought up in such a great civilized country. It's just that if I imagine it without the monarchy and therefore no more royal tourist attractions and souvenirs,​ I think the tourist industry would suffer a little. We British expats do understand that there is so much more to see in the UK but we have to look at it from a foreign visitor's point of view. At least over here, the first thing I hear that everyone wants to see is Buckingham Palace and the Changing of the Guard.
Sep 18th 2022, 10:44 am
#20
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: from Tilbury, Essex to Gallipoli, Italy
Posts: 614
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
Okay , here goes:
I'm not sure if it's possible to put monarchism or republicanism completely to one side, given that we're talking about that subject. I'm a republican. Given what you wrote you are probably pro-monarchy? However I think we could probably agree generally about Queen Elizabeth, even though I feel there's a bit of the "putting on a pedestal" effect that often happens when someone dies. I mean she wasn't all that popular after the death of Diana. Whilst I don't think the Queen was a saint I do think that on balance she did an extremely good job. Obviously being a republican I would still question whether that job should exist in the modern era.
And being a democrat I accept that the majority of people in the UK support the royal family. Though I think the minority of those who are anti monarchy is quite a big one... maybe 20%? Estimates vary wildly. Obviously there's a lot of strong support for the Queen, especially at the moment, but even if 20 million attend the funeral or visit the coffin, that still wouldn't represent a majority. I'm not sure that support extends to the whole family. I found the lack of enthusiasm for Charles (when he was Prince) amongst monarchists a bit weird. I prefer him because of the views he has expressed and the work of his charities. In a recent survey only 56% of people said they think the royal family "is a good thing". But people generally don't like change so I don't really see republicans winning if there was a referendum.
The tourism argument is always interesting, and it is possible to quote all sorts of different statistics. For example, if you look at the numbers of visitors to attractions the royal sites aren't that high. On the other hand about a third of foreign visitors say that the royal family was an important factor in their visit. We don't have to look very far for an example of a country with no monarchy: doesn't seem to have a big impact on the number of visitors to Paris or Rome... but again maybe the royal family is a unique selling point of 'the British brand '. And then there's the cost of the royal family to consider. This funeral is supposedly the biggest security operation since WWII. And days and days of disruption to business and paralysis of government in the midst of an economic crisis. It must be costing a fortune. Still, it would be a risk to get rid of the royal family. Probably not a good choice for the economy at the moment.
Presidents aren't the same in every country. Again Britain doesn't have to look far for some examples. You might not like a Macron but you could have a Higgins instead...Who? Higgins? (We all say) Exactly! He's Irish president. Tbh I had to Google it because he's not exactly internationally well known. Britain could choose what type of President it wanted. Higgins has very little power... it's not that different to the power of the Queen (or King now).
But ultimately all of the above argument about tourism, economy, role of the president,etc is secondary, because as you say, the President could be "booted out"... and this is of course exactly the point for anyone who is a republican and a democrat. That's precisely the argument for getting rid of the monarchy. If we got a corrupt King how would he be booted out?
​​​
PS. Tbf I have chosen to live in Italy so it's also perhaps not my business anymore 😃
I'm not sure if it's possible to put monarchism or republicanism completely to one side, given that we're talking about that subject. I'm a republican. Given what you wrote you are probably pro-monarchy? However I think we could probably agree generally about Queen Elizabeth, even though I feel there's a bit of the "putting on a pedestal" effect that often happens when someone dies. I mean she wasn't all that popular after the death of Diana. Whilst I don't think the Queen was a saint I do think that on balance she did an extremely good job. Obviously being a republican I would still question whether that job should exist in the modern era.
And being a democrat I accept that the majority of people in the UK support the royal family. Though I think the minority of those who are anti monarchy is quite a big one... maybe 20%? Estimates vary wildly. Obviously there's a lot of strong support for the Queen, especially at the moment, but even if 20 million attend the funeral or visit the coffin, that still wouldn't represent a majority. I'm not sure that support extends to the whole family. I found the lack of enthusiasm for Charles (when he was Prince) amongst monarchists a bit weird. I prefer him because of the views he has expressed and the work of his charities. In a recent survey only 56% of people said they think the royal family "is a good thing". But people generally don't like change so I don't really see republicans winning if there was a referendum.
The tourism argument is always interesting, and it is possible to quote all sorts of different statistics. For example, if you look at the numbers of visitors to attractions the royal sites aren't that high. On the other hand about a third of foreign visitors say that the royal family was an important factor in their visit. We don't have to look very far for an example of a country with no monarchy: doesn't seem to have a big impact on the number of visitors to Paris or Rome... but again maybe the royal family is a unique selling point of 'the British brand '. And then there's the cost of the royal family to consider. This funeral is supposedly the biggest security operation since WWII. And days and days of disruption to business and paralysis of government in the midst of an economic crisis. It must be costing a fortune. Still, it would be a risk to get rid of the royal family. Probably not a good choice for the economy at the moment.
Presidents aren't the same in every country. Again Britain doesn't have to look far for some examples. You might not like a Macron but you could have a Higgins instead...Who? Higgins? (We all say) Exactly! He's Irish president. Tbh I had to Google it because he's not exactly internationally well known. Britain could choose what type of President it wanted. Higgins has very little power... it's not that different to the power of the Queen (or King now).
But ultimately all of the above argument about tourism, economy, role of the president,etc is secondary, because as you say, the President could be "booted out"... and this is of course exactly the point for anyone who is a republican and a democrat. That's precisely the argument for getting rid of the monarchy. If we got a corrupt King how would he be booted out?
​​​
PS. Tbf I have chosen to live in Italy so it's also perhaps not my business anymore 😃
Sep 19th 2022, 4:11 am
#21
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2022
Location: Milan area
Posts: 104
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
Can't remember where exactly I read this opinion column - it suggested that the UK is a 'disguised republic', like what you said about Ireland and its president, Michael Higgins.
Last edited by daniel_t; Sep 19th 2022 at 4:13 am.
Sep 20th 2022, 6:08 am
#22
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 346
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
I just wanted to comment on the paragraph about tourist attractions. As you live in Italy too, you will probably agree with me that we have endless tourist attractions, from historical monuments, art galleries, museums, breathtaking coastlines, mountains, lakes, hillsides, gastronomical miracles, I always call Italy : "Un museo a cielo aperto". It would take months to visit all the beauty we have here. Now, I don't want to minimise or put down our good old United Kingdom as I was born in London, lived there for the first 26 yrs of my life, and extremely proud and honored to have been brought up in such a great civilized country. It's just that if I imagine it without the monarchy and therefore no more royal tourist attractions and souvenirs,​ I think the tourist industry would suffer a little. We British expats do understand that there is so much more to see in the UK but we have to look at it from a foreign visitor's point of view. At least over here, the first thing I hear that everyone wants to see is Buckingham Palace and the Changing of the Guard.
​​​​Your comment that Italy is an open air museum is true. But interestingly if you look at the list of the top 10 most visited sites in Britain according to Visit Britain , five of the top 10 are museums or art galleries (and none are royal sites). And those museums and art galleries are full of the stuff that we stole or ripped off from all over the world... and a lot of it is Italian! :-) :-)
Sep 20th 2022, 6:14 am
#23
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 346
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
Hmmm... interesting. I shall Google it. Thanks
I did hear quite a few of the Vox Pop interviews on the BBC were people who emigrated to the UK and the phrase "the Queen allowed us to come here" (or similar) was repeated a few times. I think we can all agree that this isn't true
Sep 20th 2022, 9:17 am
#24
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2016
Location: Ex Teramo, Abruzzo
Posts: 1,216
Re: About Queen Elizabeth
.........
​​​​Your comment that Italy is an open air museum is true. But interestingly if you look at the list of the top 10 most visited sites in Britain according to Visit Britain , five of the top 10 are museums or art galleries (and none are royal sites). And those museums and art galleries are full of the stuff that we stole or ripped off from all over the world... and a lot of it is Italian! :-) :-)
​​​​Your comment that Italy is an open air museum is true. But interestingly if you look at the list of the top 10 most visited sites in Britain according to Visit Britain , five of the top 10 are museums or art galleries (and none are royal sites). And those museums and art galleries are full of the stuff that we stole or ripped off from all over the world... and a lot of it is Italian! :-) :-)
