family problems Indo

Old Dec 12th 2013, 11:49 am
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Default family problems Indo

I am in need of advice here. Irish man married abroad to Indonesian, , also local Nikka seri. Wife living in Yogya,we are recently seperated, one daughter. I have been in and out of Indo for years, on social buddaya visa, waiting for right time to make the jump to Kitas. Eventually, sold up home, making the move, using my money, for her business....when I got advice not to invest. I allready have properties under my wifes name. We have a beautiful 6yr old daughter.
After I stalled to invest in her business, the ``shit hit the fan``. Alot of manufactured slanderous accusations were thrown my way, it became increasingly difficult to live together, as my daughter was being exposed to alot of drama, perhaps deliberately, so the best situation was to leave. I requested the return of my properties, money, it was refused. Ascess to my daughter was increasingly frustrated, until it was totally blocked.
It seems my wife has moved on to her next victim now, from OZ.
It also seems my marriage couldent be registered in Indo, as i was previously told it was by my wife. Now, my marriage status in Indo is `` at sea``, I dont know what it is???
I am also told, to claim any of my property back,(in my wifes name still), I have to also have a Kitas, but if i divorce first I have no claim? She has been pushing for divorce of course.
More importantly, how can I gain legal ascess rights to my daughter.....are there child rights organisations..??..without the upset drama that my wife makes, which she knows will drive me away, the twist it into an excuse to say I am not interested in my daughter. How can i have a say in my daughter life, like education, ie. my wife has taken her out of an excellent co-ed school, and placed her in a strict islamic school, in spite of my offer to continue paying.
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Old Dec 12th 2013, 3:48 pm
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Default Re: family problems Indo

First gerro let us welcome you to the forum.
I have great sympathy for your dilemma, but don't see how forummers can help unless with an Indonesian law degree.
I'm not a lawyer but have often stayed in Holiday Inns...so have a clue!

1. Your Muslim marriage...if it was done in a Kantor Ukusan Agama (KUA) and a Buku Nikah issued....you are officially married under Indonesian law. If your wife has stolen/lost the book just go back to the KUA and ask for a copy.

2. If you have evidence of bank transfers from outside to Indonesia and can be traced to you wife...this is evidence. If she has purchased freehold (Hak Milik) property with this money in her maiden name, and you were married without a pre-nup...she has committed a crime and something I would use as leverage.

3. If your estranged wife is unwilling to sponsor you for a visa to enter RI you need someone else. A good indonesian resident friend for free or an agent for a fee.

4. Without correct sponsorship (ie Spouse, Work or Retirement) a kitas is not available...owning or renting property is not a condition for a kitas.

To summarize, my friend, you have little options. You are not alone...2 guys in my pub are going through similar trials and cannot figure out any course of action. Indonesian law hardly protects expats...unless lots of money is spread around.

Please..the last thing you want is to get angry and cause trouble involving police. The first thing they do is deport and redflag your passport for no entry for a number of years.

A decent western english speaking lawyer is advised....I've heard of some who have had some success in pre-trial disposition of some assets.
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Old Dec 12th 2013, 5:55 pm
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Default Re: family problems Indo

Hi Davita,
Many thanks for a quick response.
1) I have a surat keterangan Nikah...pondoh pesantren...
Its a certificate. No buku nikka issued I am told unless I have a Kitas, ie I am living offically in Indo, but cannot be issued on a social budiya visa. Not sure if true or not. My ex never offically registered the marriage properly, but went through the motions.

2) Part of property was got before marriage, the rest after. I have a prenup.
However chasing after this thro local law........!! lol My ex has even told me once how she would thwart any trials,drawing them out, playing sickies etc.

3) I have ascess to friend sponsors no problem, however my ex tried to make a problem with one sponsor earlier this year, reporting that I stole land certificates to police/immigration, who hauled me in on renewal. The certs were simply in safe keeping by me, my entitlement, as we were married. Islamically, ok! They had to be paid off of course..

4)I have a friend helping me sponsor me with a kitas, he says , from local official sponsor office in Ubud, that I must have a rented house first. A Legian based sponsor office, says different, now you confirm my doubts, thanks.

5)If u have any recommendations of a decent Lawyer....bahasa english....please refer on.

Yes, I have heard stories, many western guys getting caught. I would go as far as to say, that there are too many organised scams ongoing in this area. A recent documentary, based in Phillipines, showed how whole local families were in on the scam. You are right about the police in general.
I am still astounded about how corrupt people are in general, 2nd nature. Westerners are generally never prepared for how viral it all is.
Many thanks, G
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Old Dec 13th 2013, 4:29 am
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Default Re: family problems Indo

1. If a Surat Nikah (certificate) it would have needed to be registered in the Civil Registry then....you are officially married.

2. Say you are legally married, then the pre-nup has meaning but...and you're not going to like this...on divorce she has total title to the property, separate from you as the legal spouse. That is what the pre-nup provides. The main reason mixed marriage in Indonesia suggest a pre-nup is because land title law precludes a foreigner owning freehold land whereas marriage law entitles half to each on divorce. Clearly there is a conflict....but a pre-nup obviates that as the title will be held by the Indonesian spouse separately.

From what you describe I would say you have very little legal recourse to re-obtain property other than before marriage, if you can provide the financial connection. A lawyer should advise...maybe on a pro-bono condition of a % of what you get.

Re: staying in Indonesia...many have lived for years on a Sosbud which is much easier to obtain than a kitas, although it means leaving for S'pore or KL every 6 months and return.

Sorry, I don't know any lawyers, and sorry to be of not much help but you were courageous to post about your predicament as others may read and not fall into the same trap...marrying across Cultures; Religions; National Laws; Immigration Laws.... requires more thought than....sayang... ooohhh!!!

Last edited by Davita; Dec 13th 2013 at 4:59 am.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 5:24 pm
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Default Re: family problems Indo

well heres the thing.
1) Its a surat Nikah, but not officially registered. I went about a divorce last year...about 25 juta, anyone like to know, they threw the whole lot back at me, taking 5 j for expenses, saying that the cert registration was`nt official, it had only one number on it, but the Cert itself had no number, making it a fraud. My wife handled the registration of course, I thought it was ok.

2)About the prenup..........that was made by myself, in my country, not Indo, it basically states I keep what was mine before I married. I hold it. There was no prenup made in Indo. Besides, I thought a Prenup provided whatever someone specified in it, or is there a standardised Indo Prenup for foreigners of mixed marriages you are implying that precludes property title to foreigners? Then why might a Buleh ever sign that, except s/he has been tricked into it.

Yes , you are correct, marrying across cultures, is a no-mans land, full of land-mines, which one usually learns about when its a bit late..lol. One of my reasons for posting this is also to educate people on the marriage scams that are going on as scams are second nature to people in Indo in general.

Any advice on organisations that give info on fathers rights, childs rights, and to them ascessing each other?
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 7:56 pm
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Default Re: family problems Indo

Well here’s the thing.
1) It’s a Surat Nikah, but not officially registered. I went about a divorce last year...about 25 juta, anyone like to know, they threw the whole lot back at me, taking 5 j for expenses, saying that the cert registration wasn’t official, it had only one number on it, but the Cert itself had no number, making it a fraud. My wife handled the registration of course, I thought it was ok.

1A Thus it would appear, under Indonesian law, you are NOT married. If you have those certificates take it to a lawyer and ask if these would be considered as evidence of fraud and that you were tricked into a ‘so-called marriage’. If so, your wife could be prosecuted for a criminal act!

2) About the pre-nup..........that was made by myself, in my country, not Indo, it basically states I keep what was mine before I married. I hold it. There was no pre-nup made in Indo.

2A Pre-nups, not authorised by RI Gov’t, are invalid in the Republic of Indonesia. It would only have meaning within the land where it was established by law.

3) Besides, I thought a Pre-nup provided whatever someone specified in it, or is there a standardised for foreigners of mixed marriages you are implying that precludes property title to foreigners? Then why might a Buleh ever sign that, except s/he has been tricked into it.

3A Indonesia has a marriage law which prevents the Indonesian spouse from buying freehold land (Hak Milik) whilst being married to a foreigner, because the foreign spouse would normally be entitled to a half-share on divorce. The common way to avoid this, when getting married in Indonesia, is to simultaneously sign a pre-nup saying any freehold land purchased during the marriage will freely and clearly belong to the WNI spouse. The foreign spouse would have no title. There are simple examples of this pre-nup available all over RI expat sites, and better explanations than mine abound.

4) Yes, you are correct, marrying across cultures, is a no-man’s land, full of land-mines, which one usually learns about when it’s a bit late..lol. One of my reasons for posting this is also to educate people on the marriage scams that are going on as scams are second nature to people in Indo in general.

5) Any advice on organisations on fathers’ rights, child’s rights, and to them accessing each other?

5A If you are clearly not married I suggest your next step would be to identify, in law, that she IS your daughter. If she isn’t…walk-away! If she is…. find who registered her and who was designated as the father.

There is a bigger expat site called ‘living in Indonesia’ it is informative and also has a forum where members can give useful info and tips. Good luck as I've reached the limit of my knowledge.

Last edited by Davita; Dec 14th 2013 at 8:00 pm.
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Old Dec 18th 2013, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: family problems Indo

Ok Davita, thanks so much for all the useful info and contacts, its been of great help. I have a copy of birth Cert with my name included, plus a receipt from hospital of birth in my name, so they must be of use.
By the way, as my daughter has dual passports, I was told once I have a Kitas, with Kartu Keluarga, she can travel outside the country with her non-indonesian passport. ie on a foreign passport. She wont be stopped on the way out. What you think? But then must the KK have my name put on it, as being on only a social Buddaya, non resident, a foreigner cannot have his name on the KK, I am told..........true ?
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Old Dec 20th 2013, 6:33 am
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Default Re: family problems Indo

I cannot give any authoritative advice, maybe others can help.

To my knowledge a KK (family card) is only issued to Indonesians.
I've had a Kitas for 3 years but I'm not on any family card.

If your daughter has a foreign passport, and her surname is the same as yours, then the only issue I see is some countries require a letter from the non-traveling spouse to authorize leaving the country.
I'm not sure if Indonesia applies that rule or even it can apply to foreigners leaving RI, without some external warning from an Embassy/Consul.

This is to prevent disputing parents from hijacking children which, I caution, can be seen as a serious crime.
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