robbo462003

And why did you choose Indonesia is there a significant cost of of living advantage over europe?

Davita

I'm not sure about EU robbo coz Im from Canada.
Initially I came to Jakarta because my wife is originally from here and her mother was ailing. That was over 6 years ago and Ive been commuting to and fro Vancouver since.

The cost of living is difficult to ascertain but I live like a king on a pension in Indonesia compared with my normal lifestyle in Vancouver.

The cost of property is significantly less in Indonesia...I have an apartment in Jakarta that would cost 7-8 times in downtown Vancouver. I also own a villa in Bali that would be 3-4 times more in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Cost of food and clothing is ridiculously cheap but booze is expensive.

The main problem is getting the appropriate visa to stay in the country. I have a retirement visa which is for over 55yo and has to be renewed annually. Including exit entry permits this costs around US$800 using an agent.

Shoot any questions and Ill try to answer.

robbo462003

Hello Davita and thanks for your reply.

I have been visiting the philippines for years and as i am now on the cusp of retirement but worry I would not be able to adjust to the tropical climate there in retirement.The phil is very interesting to me because it has an agreement with the UK which means UK retirees get the same annual pension increases as those in the UK.Plus the retirement visa has many advantages,rental accommodation is cheap and so are groceries & booze (except imported stuff).Baguio,north of manila and 5000 ft above seal level has a nice climate but is only accessible by road a 7 hour bus journey & suffers earth quakes & landslides.Indonesia I no nothing about, but seems to attract ex-pats in numbers.Maybe the climate there is kinder than the phil.

slapphead_otool

I have lived/worked in both - Jakarta and Manila to be specific, and climate wise there isn't a lot in it. If anything Indonesia is hotter, being on the equator. As you point out, it depends where you live. Up in the hills in places like Bandung its quite cool - Bandung was a hill station for the Dutch in colonial days. Same problem though, you have to get to Bandung by road or train.

Indonesia suffers from earthquakes, landslides and volcanos too. Probably worse, and to be honest they are not as adept at disaster management than the Philippines.

One other issue to remember is Indonesia is predominantly Muslim, and this has a pervasive impact on life. Filters restrict some internet sites (porn etc). Drink is sometimes difficult to obtain, there are draconian laws in place that although currently disregarded could be used to make life hard - e.g. restricting women's clothing and dancing. Also Ramadan takes place every year, and that is a challenge in itself.

Having said that, I prefer Indonesia and its people, despite have some great friends in the Philippines.

Bali is a different world to the rest of Indonesia. The climate is nice, 95% of the people are Hindu, it is very Western friendly and tourist oriented, and yet if you get out of Kuta you are back in Asia and out of KFC/Mcdonalds etc.

Davita

I'm not familiar with the Philippines so cannot comment.

There are many expats in Indonesia but mostly for either work purpose or married to Indonesian spouses.
It is rare, except for Bali, to see both spouses of same skin tone unless tourists...and even in Bali, some are long term visitors rather than permanent retirees.

Indonesia is hot and similar to all the other nations around. There are higher-ground cooler places but I don't think many live there permanently...more like holiday venues. Indonesia is so vast that all types of lifestyle is available...city, beach, jungle, hilltop...all.

Imo Malaysia offers the best visa for UK retirees under the MM2H scheme. I have such a visa myself as it was a consideration...but I prefer Indonesia as my wife is originally from RI and Bali suits me just fine. Jakarta is a metropolis and useful for a visit, but I don't recommend for ever.

I'm surprised that expats residing in the Philippines are permitted to index UK OAP and Indonesia not...makes no sense; but the whole index pension arrangement from UK stinks.

bakedbean

Yeh absolutely. Makes no sense at all.

I'm interested that Slapphead says Bali weather is nice. Davita says Hot. So... is Bali weather different from other parts of Indonesia, say Jakarta?

slapphead_otool

Bali is hot, no doubt about it. Bali is about 7 degrees South of the equator. Manila is about 15 degrees North of it.

But being a relatively small island Bali get nice sea breezes, which makes a big difference. The dry season from May to about October is the nicest. Average temperature is 26C, although it can rise to average max of 32C.

Jakarta is a different kettle of fish. It sits on a wide low lying plain - in fact the city was built Dutch style on swamp land, using canals. Jakarta's average temperature is around 30C and there are no cool breezes. The low lying plain is one of the causes of the terrible pollution in the city.

bakedbean

26 degrees sounds very nice to me.

slapphead_otool

When the Dutch built Jakarta they drained the swamps with huge canals.

In recent years the locals had seen these canals as an ideal garbage disposal system, until they blocked up. The Japanese came in and emptied them in the 1970s, and warned the Jakartans what would happen if they filled up again.

Sure enough all of the rubbish went back into the canals. In 2007 a combination of high rainfall on hills denuded of trees due to a change to palm oil plantations, plus a very high tide showed them exactly what the Japanese were talking about. Much of Jakarta was deep under water and it wasn't pretty for several days. Around 50 people died and thousands lost what little they ever had.

Jakarta floods in drizzle, and only stays afloat if the canals are kept open and the rain doesn't coincide with a high tide. It can take seven hours to get to the airport when it rains....

There was a lot of talk after 2007 about how to fix the problem. I took a look last week. Nothing had been done.

Brendan Hoover put some good stuff on the floods up on his blog...

http://www.thejavajive.com/blog/expa...a-floods-2007/

Davita

I was about to respond to BB's post but was ordered to help with shopping...does shopping ever end?

Anyway...glad I did because Slapphead has responded better than I could.

Jakarta weather generally sux because of pollution. My apartment is on the 18th floor and my view is S and W as far as the eye can see. That isn't far because of haze...on a good day I can see mountains in the distance but that's rare. It seems cool but that's probably because we don't get much of the direct sun.

Bali is hotter and much sunnier but we get a constant breeze. My villa has a view to the Indian ocean and during the day we keep everything open and enjoy the breeze. At night we close everything, not because of temperature, but to keep away bugs. Then we use A/C but sometimes the fan is enough.

In Indonesia there are many places that are cool like the Cameron Highlands in Malaysia. My brother-in-law has just built a house in Malang, Java, where it gets quite cold at night.

Just my opinion.
Bali is much like Penang used to be when I lived there in the late 50/60's....pretty laid back and delightful. Bali is more touristy and ethnic, in fact that's the main economy, whereas Penang has become hi-rise and industrial. Hi-rise buildings in Bali is prohibited...I heard nothing can be taller than a palm tree but that may just be an old-wives tale.

Balinese men are not industrious...most of the work is done by Javanese or Bali women!!! The men consider themselves slaves to art and ceremony...it is interesting for tourists to see all the blessings to the gods, and the constant ceremonial outings, but it gets a bit weary for residents who have to wait in traffic for the gamelan gongs and parades to pass.

I told my wife if I die in Bali I want my ceremony to last at least for an hour holding up the traffic. It's called revenge!

slapphead_otool

bakedbean

and all that flipping burning of forests you lot do Nice and hazy here in Penang today... all sent over from Indonesia no doubt

slapphead_otool

Thats not the forests, its the kretek smokers....

traceylee

Try in the mountains of Java - the weather around Bandung is usually lovely, although it can be quite chilly if you go much higher than that!

Davita

As traycee has said Bandung is not far from Jakarta and a very desirable weekend relief from the Jakarta weather and traffic. Problem is everyone goes there at weekends and holidays so it gets as bad as Jakarta during those times.
Bandung is also central to many industries making fashion garments and is home to outlet stores that sell name brand clothing at tremendous discount.
This is another reason to avoid Bandung during holiday/weekend.

Recently we took a train from Bandung to Jogjakarta, which I recommend. It leaves early and the journey takes 7 hours. The train itself is nice...much like economy on airlines and I wouldn't be surprised if the seats didn't originate from airlines. There is much more room, the train is airconditioned and smoking is only permitted in a certain area. Make sure an executive-class ticket is purchased. The views from the train are spectacular but tedious also as the plains are just field after field of rice. I can see why rice is such a staple and yet I read that Indonesia is a net importer...well I guess there are 240 million of those rice-eaters in RI and not enough plains to grow much as mountains prevail on most islands.

Jogja is full of history and again shopping for batik should be listed...also, daily side trips can be taken to Borobudur and Solo.