scot47

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/w...sKKvs2K1A1U9Us


What can I say ? The end of Secular India.

Bipat

It is not quite how this report (Opposition propaganda?) seems.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/72448221.cms

Very Briefly
Millions of illegal immigrants have come over the border from Bangladesh and other Muslim countries. The Bill just passed means that those who suffered religious persecution in other countries (non-Muslims) will get Indian citizenship more easily.
The ever present threat of terrorism leads to stricter rules for those of Pakistani origin for example (even for British citizens travelling to India).
Although there is a good relationship with Bangladesh ----India even transferred a parcel of land over to Bangladesh where illegal migrants had settled.

The Assam situation mentioned was where people had not registered themselves.

The Government would not have increased majority without the Muslim vote ----removal of the triple talaq (already removed in many Muslim countries) also pleased Muslim women'!

Kashmir is a totally different issue ---it was the removal of a temporary amendment to the Constitution giving separate rules for Kashmir because of Pakistan and terrorism.These separate rules have meant no investment in the State, less infra structure, rules about women marrying and travelling 'out' etc. In other words poverty.
Kashmiri men travel all over India to rent shops to trade during Winter months to get income. (Four such shops in our home town), domestic tourism an important trade.

The borders of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh have been separated they are very different areas. (The latter is at risk from China as was Tibet!!)
It is not unusual for State borders to be changed. (Hyderabad/Telangana for example).

scot47

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/w...KmhLHmdVEW49fk

Modi and Hindutva destroy Secular India

Bipat

A ridiculous opinion ------fuelled by USA and UK newspapers who do not understand the situation and Congress party politics.
I agree with hindsight Modi could have handled this differently but how? Have you any suggestions?

It is essentially about illegal migrants and the difference between what are essentially 1) 'asylum seekers' and 2) economic illegal migrants.

1) The former----Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus who have escaped religious persecution and torture in neighbouring countries are being fast tracked to citizenship.
In the past Muslims from the same countries married to Hindus have been given emergency visas for entry.

2) Economic illegal migrants---- from mainly Bangladesh-----millions have come over the border!! If fast tracked to citizenship it could lead to Bangladesh 'emptying'!!!
The Congress party sees these people to some extent as a 'vote bank'.
You have to ask if India is so-called 'anti-Muslim' why do they continue to come???
What is the solution???
Remember also that there are many terrorist/Isis units in Bangladesh with connections in India.

Regarding the riots----in India people, particularly students love a 'good riot', however when deaths happen it is time for a solution----but what?

scot47

My Muslim friends in India agree that this is the end of secularism. Bipat - you should not use terms like "ridiculous" if you wish to engage in civilised debate.

Bipat

Well my Muslim friends, neighbours, acquaintances, in India think differently!
Be 'realistic' ----hope that word is OK!!!
No political party in India can survive without the Muslim vote.

How then has the position of ordinary Indian Muslims changed?

What then is yours and your friends solution to the millions of illegal economic migrants from neighbouring Muslim countries?

How should the threat of terrorism be handled. (India is not the only country with this problem is it!!?)

Why are they coming?????
Muslims do not receive religious persecution in Muslim countries!!! So they must see India as preferable!!

Should those Christians etc. that have escaped torture and persecution not be given citizenship??

scot47

Excluding people on grounds of religion cannot be acceptable.

Bipat

They are excluded because they are economic illegal migrants.
You seem to 'accept' that the Christians etc. have been 'excluded' and subject to religious persecution in their neighbouring Muslim countries----

You do not answer questions------why have millions of Muslims migrated/migrating illegally from Bangladesh into India? Is India obligated to give them all citizenship? How many more would the come if they did?
How would you suggest the situation regarding illegal migrants is dealt with??
Does the UK give automatic citizenship to illegal economic migrants?

scrubbedexpat142

We can box this debate off quite easily. Refuse all Hindu immigration from India to the UK (after all they are quite safe in India). End of.

Bipat

We are discussing illegal migration for economic reasons as opposed to asylum seekers who have been abused and tortured.

Does the UK give fast tract citizenship to any illegal migrants.

What is your answer to the millions who have come and continue to come over the porous border from Bangladesh?

scrubbedexpat142

No we are not. We are discussing immigration rights based on religious adherence.

Bipat

Yes we are--- read the new law.

Any legally living in India for two years can apply for citizenship, that includes you and me.

scot47

Bipat - you should come out and tell the world that you support Modi and his fascist ideas.

Bipat

Which "fascist ideas" are you referring to.** (As OCI I do not have a vote, neither does OH----however we have all other rights, including benefits, except purchase of agricultural land). I can stay and live there as long as I like ----without disclosing my religion!!!)

Modi could not have his present majority without the Muslim vote (and an increasing Muslim women's vote.)

You still have not explained why millions of Bangladeshi Muslim citizens illegally have entered India----presumably they prefer to live there!!!

** Are your Indian friends Congress supporters----The party is in as much disarray as the British Labour party. The party leader resigned, his mother now in control!!

scot47

Modi's ideas are patently racist and fascist. Shame on you for supporting this monster.