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kimilseung Aug 15th 2020 4:11 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12897201)
And pilots of many other nationalities, including, for example, many more Poles than Indians.

...and lets not forget the Free Indian Legion of Bose, under the leadership of the SS, who are often cited as inspirational for the Indian military mutineers of 1946, and in turn for the British not having faith that the Indian military would support the Raj, thus leading to Indian independence.

Bipat Aug 15th 2020 4:35 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 12897206)
...and lets not forget the Free Indian Legion of Bose, under the leadership of the SS, who are often cited as inspirational for the Indian military mutineers of 1946, and in turn for the British not having faith that the Indian military would support the Raj, thus leading to Indian independence.

Bose was a 'firebrand++', Nehru hated him! That is why the continuing rumours regarding his death.
Also the British Indians of the British Indian army were obviously against him

Bipat Aug 15th 2020 4:42 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12897201)
And pilots of many other nationalities, including, for example, many more Poles than Indians.

Yes---many other nationalities---However as this is Indian Independence day on an India part of the Forum, Indian troops were mentioned. What is your problem with that?


(Indian and Polish origin people the largest number of migrant origin people in the UK. Two of our close neighbours in the UK are Sikhs married to Polish ladies.)





scrubbedexpat142 Aug 15th 2020 4:46 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 
Today is also an important anniversary for another outpost of Empire - that of the arrival in Grand Harbour, Valletta of the battered & crippled tanker Ohio, whose cargo of oil enabled Malta GC to survive and keep fighting, with crucial consequences for the war in the Med. & north Africa - and the war as a whole.

scot47 Aug 15th 2020 5:36 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 
You want another date that we should remember. It is that which clearly marks the end of the Empire. The day when imperial forces surrendered in Singapore 15 February 1942.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Singapore

Some in England have not yet grasped that The Empire is over !

kimilseung Aug 15th 2020 5:37 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897216)
Bose was a 'firebrand++', Nehru hated him! That is why the continuing rumours regarding his death.
Also the British Indians of the British Indian army were obviously against him

So many straw-men all in a row.

Bipat Aug 15th 2020 7:27 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 12897239)
So many straw-men all in a row.

What exactly does that mean? Were you there at the time?
What is your opinion of the plane crash? What documents knowledge
Russia hold?







Bipat Aug 15th 2020 7:37 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by scot47 (Post 12897238)
You want another date that we should remember. It is that which clearly mark the end of the Empire. The day when imperial forces surrendered in Singapore 15 February 1942.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Singapore

Some in England have not yet grasped that The Empire is over !

Yes the Empire is over.
Good relationships nowadays with many of the Empire countries (as with India ) .The British Pandemic economy is now in the hands of an Indian origin politician.
Could not posters on this Forum for just one day say something positive?

morpeth Aug 15th 2020 8:35 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897284)
Yes the Empire is over.
Good relationships nowadays with many of the Empire countries (as with India ) .The British Pandemic economy is now in the hands of an Indian origin politician.
Could not posters on this Forum for just one day say something positive?

Actually I did say something positive, though I would have assumed the issue isn't whether to say something positive or negative just something meaningful and accurate. I said and I give him credit he seems to have a clear vision for India from the start and by most criteria economically he has delivered. While his elitist attitude in a country so poor to be spending money on space I do question the morality of.

Bipat Aug 15th 2020 9:37 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12897307)
Actually I did say something positive, though I would have assumed the issue isn't whether to say something positive or negative just something meaningful and accurate. I said and I give him credit he seems to have a clear vision for India from the start and by most criteria economically he has delivered. While his elitist attitude in a country so poor to be spending money on space I do question the morality of.

My post pointed out today is Independence Day, and as above Poster above pointed out also VJ day----UK TV this evening a 'moving' programme and also so many Indian people giving their experiences.
Regardless of views of Nehru, his independence speech is recognised as one of the all time great speeches..


Brexit etc. did not seem appropriate in reply.

Yet again you go on about the space programme.---It has been explained to you many times that this was the major concern of the previous Congress Governments (I would also question its beginning at that time).
To stop it NOW-- would waste previous research--end scientific/space cooperation with other countries (UK)--- cause unemployment, prevent young people from joining space research in their own country.








kimilseung Aug 15th 2020 9:46 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897281)
What exactly does that mean? Were you there at the time?
What is your opinion of the plane crash? What documents knowledge
Russia hold?

New straw-men

Bipat Aug 15th 2020 10:10 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 12897344)
New straw-men

Could you explain what you mean!

There has always been controversy about his 'methods' of getting independence by asking Nazi German help, about his death, about relationship with Nehru.
(Recent documents released by Modi at request of his daughter did not help much.)
The numbers in the INA etc. were not that great. -----( The mother of a close friend of mine was involved with them in Singapore-----she visited UK in her 80s usual sort of wealthy 'activist' ----cigarette in long holder dangling from her mouth----I loved her!).




scrubbedexpat142 Aug 16th 2020 7:51 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897337)

Yet again you go on about the space programme.---It has been explained to you many times that this was the major concern of the previous Congress Governments (I would also question its beginning at that time).
To stop it NOW-- would waste previous research--end scientific/space cooperation with other countries (UK)--- cause unemployment, prevent young people from joining space research in their own country.

Might do better to make those investments in the aviation sector, and improve safety.

Bipat Aug 16th 2020 9:00 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12897472)
Might do better to make those investments in the aviation sector, and improve safety.

I think Kerala crash was due to weather conditions. (We never fly during monsoon!) Different airports different in infrastructure.

(Some airports are in difficult areas----fierce argument with OH about flying to Srinagar ----take-off' on return in my view seems straight into a mountain! His view of my bus trip to there with the children years ago not printable. Now train is possible.)

scrubbedexpat142 Aug 16th 2020 9:06 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897492)
I think Kerala crash was due to weather conditions. (We never fly during monsoon!) Different airports different in infrastructure.

No, aircraft mishandled in (known) adverse weather conditions.

Bipat Aug 16th 2020 9:16 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12897497)
No, aircraft mishandled in (known) adverse weather conditions.

How can you know that before investigation complete? Should the flight have been cancelled? (Any form of travel is dangerous in heavy monsoon!)

If you are correct and pilot error how would investment have helped?

scrubbedexpat142 Aug 16th 2020 9:24 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897504)
How can you know that before investigation complete? Should the flight have been cancelled? (Any form of travel is dangerous in heavy monsoon!)

Not appropriate to comment in detail on this thread, however -

Pilot had already aborted one approach due to the weather, and botched the actual landing (too high, too fast over threshold onto soaked runway).


If you are correct and pilot error how would investment have helped?
Enhanced training for a start, grooved runways, improved ATC and regulation. Remember, this accident was not a one off, there were half a dozen (or more) serious runway excursion incidents last year.

morpeth Aug 17th 2020 12:12 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897337)
My post pointed out today is Independence Day, and as above Poster above pointed out also VJ day----UK TV this evening a 'moving' programme and also so many Indian people giving their experiences.
Regardless of views of Nehru, his independence speech is recognised as one of the all time great speeches..


Brexit etc. did not seem appropriate in reply.

Yet again you go on about the space programme.---It has been explained to you many times that this was the major concern of the previous Congress Governments (I would also question its beginning at that time).
To stop it NOW-- would waste previous research--end scientific/space cooperation with other countries (UK)--- cause unemployment, prevent young people from joining space research in their own country.

as has been also explained many times it is borderline immoral for such a poor third world country to engage in such prestige projects- and the savings would obvious be able to give a lot more jobs than thew those employed in the industry. the UK has some of the best universities in world rankings, as far as i know india few or none- i am quite sure the UK is quite capable of doing its own scientific research.i am always amazed at the lack of empathy shown by elites and nationalists in many third world countries.

you are probably right brexit comments off topics- though the speech did give focus to the key policy strategy to replace imports,

i agree Nehru's speech quite impressive

morpeth Aug 17th 2020 12:18 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12897509)
Not appropriate to comment in detail on this thread, however -

Pilot had already aborted one approach due to the weather, and botched the actual landing (too high, too fast over threshold onto soaked runway).

Enhanced training for a start, grooved runways, improved ATC and regulation. Remember, this accident was not a one off, there were half a dozen (or more) serious runway excursion incidents last year.

expatrick i know little about te subject though i have heard pilots making similar observations . i am quite interested to understand any sort of reasoning why space exploration to take precedence over saftey measures whether in the aviation sector, basic sanitation, or the type of concerns the EU has expressed about drug production in India.

Bipat Aug 17th 2020 1:31 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12897926)
expatrick i know little about te subject though i have heard pilots making similar observations . i am quite interested to understand any sort of reasoning why space exploration to take precedence over saftey measures whether in the aviation sector, basic sanitation, or the type of concerns the EU has expressed about drug production in India.

I believe Expatrick is an expert in aviation. It is true that different airports have very different infrastructure---some of this is under State control not central Government. Also monsoon conditions should lead to more cancellations.

Morpeth you constantly repeat yourself- Space exploration does not take "precedence" over anything I explained to you that after decades of work it should not be "stopped" "NOW".

Basic sanitation has had precedence as has health provision 50% of population free private health care now---!
Concerns over drug production -----again you are 'out of date' ---several years ago EU had concerns with countries such as Italy etc. and 3 or 4 of the many production companies in India, the latter were closed.
I presume you know AstraZeneca has arranged for the Oxford virus vaccine to be manufactured in India! The company will produce for Indian use and India will give 50% to poorer countries.

scrubbedexpat142 Aug 17th 2020 5:34 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 
I guess that it is naive of us to expect modern governments to put the safety of its citizens before fulfilling vanity projects - particularly those governments responsible for post imperial nation building & development.

Bipat Aug 17th 2020 6:00 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12898078)
I guess that it is naive of us to expect modern governments to put the safety of its citizens before fulfilling vanity projects - particularly those governments responsible for post imperial nation building & development.

Which "post imperial nation'? UK or India???

The space program of India in the beginning (Nehru) could have been said to be what you call a "vanity project",
However why now waste the past efforts. It will provide work in the future for young scientists.

It now is providing advance weather information which has saved lives regarding the recent East coast cyclone etc. It also tracks shipping of 'less friendly' countries.
The UK satellites were sent up with Indian rockets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asi...0put%20five%20

As I said above some airports are financed at State level ----Goa airport another example belongs to the Indian Navy.

scrubbedexpat142 Aug 17th 2020 6:06 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898088)
Which "post imperial nation'? UK or India???

The space program of India in the beginning (Nehru) could have been said to be what you call a "vanity project",
However why now waste the past efforts. It will provide work in the future for young scientists.

It now is providing advance weather information which has saved lives regarding the recent East coast cyclone etc. It also tracks shipping of 'less friendly' countries.
The UK satellites were sent up with Indian rockets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asi...0put%20five%20

As I said above some airports are financed at State level ----Goa airport another example belongs to the Indian Navy.

India (& other former colonies).

​​​​​​The aviation sector (& India's is pretty large) employs (or should) many scientists & technicians and contributes significantly to GDP.

scot47 Aug 17th 2020 6:06 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 
London is an example of vanity in spending They have the delusion that they are still a World Power and as a result keep a fleet of submarines armed with Trident missiles, This folly costs huge sums of money that would be better spent on other projects.

scrubbedexpat142 Aug 17th 2020 6:10 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by scot47 (Post 12898092)
London is an example of vanity in spending They have the delusion that they are still a World Power and as a result keep a fleet of submarines armed with Trident missiles,

Precisely, hence my hope and belief that the former colonies could and should do better, learning from the mistakes of others!

Bipat Aug 17th 2020 8:11 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12898091)
India (& other former colonies).

​​​​​​The aviation sector (& India's is pretty large) employs (or should) many scientists & technicians and contributes significantly to GDP.

So young scientists with ambitions to work with a space program should migrate to USA? Lives saved by early weather forecasts are not important-----protection from unfriendly countries?
Well ----they are just non-Western, non-white people, just former colonies why should they have ambitions?
Combined space projects supporting UK ----not important?

British trained pilots have jobs with various Indian airlines (India the country with the largest number of women pilots).
As I said airport and safety measures are also at State level and military level.

(I agree that Naresh Goyal ---Former Chairman of Jet Airways---- a shameless man.)













scrubbedexpat142 Aug 17th 2020 9:06 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898141)
So young scientists with ambitions to work with a space program should migrate to USA?...
Well ----they are just non-Western, non-white people, just former colonies why should they have ambitions?

What a bizarre comment! Plenty of ambitious Indian technicians emigrate to the USA & elsewhere, as a matter of choice & demand. You have often expounded the need to allow the best & brightest to be allowed to immigrate to wherever demand requires - and employing technicians in a space programme does not justify the neglect of safety & efficiency in sectors such as aviation.

Your desperation to demonstrate prejudice where none exists is palpable, and often renders your posts irrational, sometimes even hysterical.

Bipat Aug 17th 2020 9:40 pm

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12898166)
What a bizarre comment! Plenty of ambitious Indian technicians emigrate to the USA & elsewhere, as a matter of choice & demand. You have often expounded the need to allow the best & brightest to be allowed to immigrate to wherever demand requires - and employing technicians in a space programme does not justify the neglect of safety & efficiency in sectors such as aviation.

Your desperation to demonstrate prejudice where none exists is palpable, and often renders your posts irrational, sometimes even hysterical.

Obviously those young people who want to emigrate should be able to do so! Just as British Expats do---just as you have!
As you say those that benefit the UK are doing so!

However they shouldn't have to to achieve their ambitions. Why shouldn't ex-colonies have ambitions? Why shouldn't students benefit their own country?
You totally ignore the scientific advances by India.

Could you explain how exactly the space program prevents investment by individual Indian States in their local airports!
Why didn't the space program prevent the worlds largest free health system?
What about the safety of advance warning of cyclones helped by satellites? Overall far more lives would be lost than in air crashes. (84 deaths even then this year from cyclone Amphan--India and Bangladesh)
You could easily use as an example the multiple road accidents during monsoon deluges---and flooding etc----why not States spending more on safety.

(As I said above --at the time Nehru started the space program I agree that it was not appropriate but decades later why do you resent what has been achieved, and the joint efforts with the UK. If that is not prejudice what is it?




Bipat Aug 18th 2020 7:31 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 
Additions to last post.

Note ----
-'International commercial agreements' in first link.
'In market for space products and services', 'wealth generator' in second link.


https://www.space.com/india-pslv-roc...h-success.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29341850

scrubbedexpat142 Aug 18th 2020 7:48 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898186)
Obviously those young people who want to emigrate should be able to do so! Just as British Expats do---just as you have!
As you say those that benefit the UK are doing so!

However they shouldn't have to to achieve their ambitions. Why shouldn't ex-colonies have ambitions? Why shouldn't students benefit their own country?
You totally ignore the scientific advances by India.

Could you explain how exactly the space program prevents investment by individual Indian States in their local airports!
Why didn't the space program prevent the worlds largest free health system?
What about the safety of advance warning of cyclones helped by satellites? Overall far more lives would be lost than in air crashes. (84 deaths even then this year from cyclone Amphan--India and Bangladesh)
You could easily use as an example the multiple road accidents during monsoon deluges---and flooding etc----why not States spending more on safety.

(As I said above --at the time Nehru started the space program I agree that it was not appropriate but decades later why do you resent what has been achieved, and the joint efforts with the UK. If that is not prejudice what is it?

While states may invest in individual airports, aviation safety (training, regulation, etc) requires a nationwide approach, driven by central government. The argument is that State funds would be better spent on aviation safety (& other things) rather than on a space programme - no one has died on the space programme, yet. Something to think about next time you board an aircraft.

Bipat Aug 18th 2020 8:16 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12898311)
While states may invest in individual airports, aviation safety (training, regulation, etc) requires a nationwide approach, driven by central government. The argument is that State funds would be better spent on aviation safety (& other things) rather than on a space programme - no one has died on the space programme, yet. Something to think about next time you board an aircraft.

Did you read the above links ----commercial value of the space program.

Multiple lives have been saved by satellite advanced warnings of cyclones---enabling early evacuation of people.

(I think about death every time I board an aircraft---especially when pilot is landing too fast into Goa airport---(our nearest airport). Owned by navy).
As I said above often pilot is British on international flights (Jet --when it existed.).


There is much India could do about safety the most important being road safety-----the statistics for road deaths are horrifying. This has nothing to do with the space program.



India quite far down on this list
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-most-airline-accidents-in-the-world.html






scrubbedexpat142 Aug 18th 2020 8:54 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898318)

Multiple lives have been saved by satellite advanced warnings of cyclones---enabling early evacuation of people.

You don't need a space programme to get that information. I can get that on my PC without leaving my sofa, for free. In fact I just did - using satellite imagery to track the next incoming thunder storm.

morpeth Aug 18th 2020 8:54 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12897957)
I believe Expatrick is an expert in aviation. It is true that different airports have very different infrastructure---some of this is under State control not central Government. Also monsoon conditions should lead to more cancellations.

Morpeth you constantly repeat yourself- Space exploration does not take "precedence" over anything I explained to you that after decades of work it should not be "stopped" "NOW".

Basic sanitation has had precedence as has health provision 50% of population free private health care now---!
Concerns over drug production -----again you are 'out of date' ---several years ago EU had concerns with countries such as Italy etc. and 3 or 4 of the many production companies in India, the latter were closed.
I presume you know AstraZeneca has arranged for the Oxford virus vaccine to be manufactured in India! The company will produce for Indian use and India will give 50% to poorer countries.

You are right I haven't read any recent articles about the issue of safety and drugs produced in India, though I noted some time ago your comments about a few factories that were closed. I have a relative who works for a big pharma company internationally who indicates where possible not to take drugs made in India or China- China because of poor quality control, India from the obvious issue of a country so corrupt that inspectors can easily be bribed and past issues of quality control.

As far as space program funds spent on it means less for the poor people of India of which there are so many both numerically and as a percentage of the country, and as definitively shown previously what constitutes poverty officially in India on a par with countries like Philippines, Indonesia ( both of which ahead of India in some social development measures), and even some countries in Africa.A simple issue. India can rent space on satellites for its particular needs much cheaper than the sums being invested in prestige projects.

There is nothing to preclude the central government allocating or providing funds to safety projects in the various states.

morpeth Aug 18th 2020 8:59 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898186)
Obviously those young people who want to emigrate should be able to do so! Just as British Expats do---just as you have!
As you say those that benefit the UK are doing so!

However they shouldn't have to to achieve their ambitions. Why shouldn't ex-colonies have ambitions? Why shouldn't students benefit their own country?
You totally ignore the scientific advances by India.

Could you explain how exactly the space program prevents investment by individual Indian States in their local airports!
Why didn't the space program prevent the worlds largest free health system?
What about the safety of advance warning of cyclones helped by satellites? Overall far more lives would be lost than in air crashes. (84 deaths even then this year from cyclone Amphan--India and Bangladesh)
You could easily use as an example the multiple road accidents during monsoon deluges---and flooding etc----why not States spending more on safety.

(As I said above --at the time Nehru started the space program I agree that it was not appropriate but decades later why do you resent what has been achieved, and the joint efforts with the UK. If that is not prejudice what is it?

Your constant attempts to attribute prejudice when others disagree with you gets tiresome Bipat and intellectually adds nothing to eh discussion.

The issue of the space program is very simple- in a country as poor as India and obvious safety issues concerning air safety, as you point out road safety, endemic poverty and public health issues- is it moral and rational to spend money on prestige projects.

Bipat Aug 18th 2020 9:09 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12898333)
You are right I haven't read any recent articles about the issue of safety and drugs produced in India, though I noted some time ago your comments about a few factories that were closed. I have a relative who works for a big pharma company internationally who indicates where possible not to take drugs made in India or China- China because of poor quality control,1) India from the obvious issue of a country so corrupt that inspectors can easily be bribed and past issues of quality control.

2) As far as space program funds spent on it means less for the poor people of India of which there are so many both numerically and as a percentage of the country, and as definitively 3) shown previously what constitutes poverty officially in India on a par with countries like Philippines, Indonesia ( both of which ahead of India in some social development measures), and even some countries in Africa.A simple issue. India can rent space on satellites for its particular needs much cheaper than the sums being invested in prestige projects.

There is nothing to preclude the central government allocating or providing funds to safety projects in the various states.

1) This is just not true. India is a major provider of generic drugs worldwide.

2) Did you read the above posts regarding commercial value of the space program?

3) I have explained to you before your statistics from those countries. Which other country has free private health care for 50% of population? Basic foods at special price----even we get gas subsidies!

morpeth Aug 18th 2020 9:10 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898141)
So young scientists with ambitions to work with a space program should migrate to USA? Lives saved by early weather forecasts are not important-----protection from unfriendly countries?
Well ----they are just non-Western, non-white people, just former colonies why should they have ambitions?
Combined space projects supporting UK ----not important?

British trained pilots have jobs with various Indian airlines (India the country with the largest number of women pilots).
As I said airport and safety measures are also at State level and military level.

(I agree that Naresh Goyal ---Former Chairman of Jet Airways---- a shameless man.)

Kind of hard to understand the relevance of the post. Early satellite warning can be secured without an internal space program, or without the more prestige elements included in the program.

In terms of projects between India and the UK, the UK is quite capable of its own space program and unlike India has some of top universities in the world, I am not sure what the cooperation consist of but I would suspect the UK sought to outsource some work cheaper, or let the Indians put up more of the initial funding- and considering the negative effect on the UK from the net economic relationship with India, would make sense for the UK to secure some additional funding from India. However the issue is simple- why spend money on prestige projects and not help the poor ?

I am unsure what the gender of Indian pilots has to do with safety discussion.

I am unclear which post you refer to where it has implied Indians shouldn't have ambitions.

Bipat Aug 18th 2020 9:15 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12898334)
1)Your constant attempts to attribute prejudice when others disagree with you gets tiresome Bipat and intellectually adds nothing to eh discussion.

2) The issue of the space program is very simple- in a country as poor as India and obvious safety issues concerning air safety, as you point out road safety, endemic poverty and public health issues- is it moral and rational to spend money on prestige projects.

1) Why do you always reply to any post regarding India with a negative often totally untrue reply?

2) READ about commercial value of space programme. Road safety doesn't need money---just laws and proper policing. (Poverty is decreasing vastly --)

morpeth Aug 18th 2020 9:27 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898341)
1) This is just not true. India is a major provider of generic drugs worldwide.

2) Did you read the above posts regarding commercial value of the space program?

3) I have explained to you before your statistics from those countries. Which other country has free private health care for 50% of population? Basic foods at special price----even we get gas subsidies!

Each of your points doesn't address the issues :

1. Drug Safety : The fact India is a major drug producer doesn't in itself 'prove' there isn't a safety concern to be considered. It wasn't that long ago the EU expressed the concern, and in any country where bribery is so pervasive it is a concern. However I did write I haven't read any articles or sources on the issue recently, by all means if you have any tangible serious indicating that overall drug production safety is up to international standards, and by some miraculous scenario the Indian pharma industry less corrupt than other sections of the economy, I certainly would be interested in reading. I presume another factor is who owns the drug producing facilities and whether international inspectors are involved. I don't know, do you ?

2. Commercial Value of the Space Program- proves nothing in a country with tens and tens of millions in dire poverty.

3. Poverty Levels- there is no disagreement about some measures to benefit the poor that have been undertaken in recent years. However the overall poverty level, that by some social measures of development India is behind Indonesia and the Philippines, and what India sets as the official poverty level is on a par or below that of several other third world countries including some in Africa, all point to the immorality and poor policy choice of spending money on prestige projects. ( I provided extensively before extensive data from Indian and foreign sources, from universities, NGO's, private companies- whether Indian or foreign- to support these comments. Your evidence of 'looking out your window' ,what your family says, or that it is only remote tribes who prefer to stay poor, simply not an 'explanation' of substance )

morpeth Aug 18th 2020 9:37 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12898345)
1) Why do you always reply to any post regarding India with a negative often totally untrue reply?

2) READ about commercial value of space programme. Road safety doesn't need money---just laws and proper policing. (Poverty is decreasing vastly --)

Quote untrue Bipat, I have often made very positive comments about India's progress. As far as'untrue' comments I basically respond to.comments, and often provide the sources and reasons for the comments- you then generally ignore evidence and then write my comments untrue. And if you consider our past communications I am quite willing to acknowledge when I have misunderstood an issue, and have done so.

You present a Hindu Nationalist version of India and then get annoyed when someone brings up reality or evidence, and often you do not respond directly to issues at hand, or when you get stuck completely on incorrect claims you make, you then resort to stating or implying people are racist of 'anti-Indian'.

I wonder if you actually read the posts or instantly understand them through the prism of Indian nationalism.Has anyone denied there there may be some commercial value from India's space program ?

I have no for or against position about India, just as a major country it certainly is of interest I am against nonsense or unsupported portrayals at variance with reality. I l also have learned from your comments about current evens in India that I otherwise might not have learned.

Bipat Aug 18th 2020 10:09 am

Re: Inglorious Empire
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12898349)
Each of your points doesn't address the issues :

1. Drug Safety : The fact India is a major drug producer doesn't in itself 'prove' there isn't a safety concern to be considered. It wasn't that long ago the EU expressed the concern, and in any country where bribery is so pervasive it is a concern. However I did write I haven't read any articles or sources on the issue recently, by all means if you have any tangible serious indicating that overall drug production safety is up to international standards, and by some miraculous scenario the Indian pharma industry less corrupt than other sections of the economy, I certainly would be interested in reading. I presume another factor is who owns the drug producing facilities and whether international inspectors are involved.
1) I don't know, do you ?

2. Commercial Value of the Space Program- proves nothing in a country with tens and tens of millions in dire poverty.

3. Poverty Levels- there is no disagreement about some measures to benefit the poor that have been undertaken in recent years. However the overall poverty level, that by some social measures of development India is behind Indonesia and the Philippines, and what India sets as the official poverty level is on a par or below that of several other third world countries including some in Africa, all point to the immorality and poor policy choice of spending money on prestige projects. ( I provided extensively before extensive data from Indian and foreign sources, from universities, NGO's, private companies- whether Indian or foreign- to support these comments. Your evidence of 'looking out your window' ,what your family says, or that it is only remote tribes who prefer to stay poor, simply not an 'explanation' of substance )

1) Yes I do know. Why did AstraZeneca choose an Indian company for major production you might ask. As I said you are out of date along with four Indian companies, there was EU worry about Italy. As I have said before there are illegal backstreet pharmacies.

2) Commercial value? Other countries pay to have their satellites sent up by Indian rockets. How is that punishing the poor?

3) SOME measures?? The lower income 50% of population free health care in private hospitals! USA and UK would appreciate that!!! Basic foods and gas at practically nil cost. Deposit free bank accounts enabling loans for those such as rickshaw drivers to buy new vehicles. People travel, have good clothes. Could write a page about it.

Here we go again! My window, my family and you say you are not prejudiced!!
I read daily newspapers, see TV, have contacts with hundreds of people in different States, travel north to south, seen the great increase in difference over the last few years of my 50 years of travelling there. ----What do you do?----Just a few distant friends and sort out reports that suit your agenda and post your usual negativity (a polite way of describing it!)







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