Inglorious Empire

Old Sep 4th 2020, 3:49 pm
  #211  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by caretaker
I read the speech twice (in English) and it's a boiler-plate feel good speech; onward and upward, etc. India's fleet of MIG fighters needs replacing, but while there are other nations being considered for that, in the interim they're buying new ones from Russia. The factories in India making Russian fighters aren't producing the quality or numbers they need. A billion here, a billion there, but the major purchase of S-400 ground to air missiles is the deal most likely to draw sanctions from the US, despite paying in Euros to try to circumvent that. They kicked NATO member Turkey out of the F-35 deal for making the same purchase, and only spending half as much. Those missiles will give India the power to strike at Pakistani aircraft crossing the border from a distance of 250 miles, and along with Russia's assurance that they will come to India's aid should war break out with Pakistan, it's a hard deal to pass up. The mini-deal with the US (should it go through), could insure that American dairy products are on the menu next year when Putin and Modi celebrate the opening of the new Kalashnikov factory in Korwa. Last year's arms order of of 14.5Bn from Russia exceeded their normal annual trade with Russia of 11.5Bn, but they hope to raise that to 30Bn by 2025. Putin's diplomatic stake in this is to calm the tensions between China and India, enabling a united front against the west.
If you can't understand how Putin and Trump are pivotal to these trade agreements, I'm sorry, but explaining over and over isn't going to help.
India and Russia have had defence agreements for decades----I should know, home is ten miles north of the Seabird project----planes from aircraft carriers there can reach the border within 6 minutes. A minor 'outrage' some years ago when Russian sailors were swimming naked from our beach!
India has recently bought Rafale jets from France---UK exports defence stuff there.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...-new-agreement
China / Pakistan are a significant threat.

These agreements are separate from other trade agreements.
The mini-deal with the US has already gone through---it is the larger deal that Trump wants before the election. Regarding dairy products it is India that is more likely to delay (USA has to prove that the cows are not fed animal origin products).
The 9-10 year ongoing potential potential FTA with the EU----it is India that backs out.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/...169329620.html

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Old Sep 7th 2020, 7:40 pm
  #212  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
The mini-deal with the US has already gone through---it is the larger deal that Trump wants before the election.
I've been trying to find reports of this mini-deal, and all there seems to be is news that one is pending. I'd have to see a link showing that it has gone through before I'd believe it in the face of the existing media reports.
"Do you think we’ve got a chance at a mini trade deal before the election?" former US Ambassador to India Richard Verma asked. "I think there's a chance. It's going to take a little more energy," Biegun said. "The time is short before the US elections and a lot of governments around the world are hedging a little bit. I wouldn't be surprised if the Indian government as well,” the American diplomat said.

5 of the new Raphael fighters have already been delivered and stationed up near the Chinese border, and 4 are coming in the next batch, but with final delivery of all 36 not expected until late next year, by then they could receive nearly as many new Russian planes (40 are on order).
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/r...e-frame-307179
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/in...l-5786361.html

When most of these decisions were taken the pandemic wasn't a thing yet, or I'd suspect they wanted to buy weapons systems because of lack of confidence in their own manufacturing capability. Why buy fighter planes when you are building them? The answer could be time constraints, if China is gearing up for a new confrontation:
https://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...-swamy-2841162

Last edited by caretaker; Sep 7th 2020 at 8:10 pm.
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Old Sep 7th 2020, 8:35 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by caretaker
I've been trying to find reports of this mini-deal, and all there seems to be is news that one is pending. I'd have to see a link showing that it has gone through before I'd believe it in the face of the existing media reports.
"Do you think we’ve got a chance at a mini trade deal before the election?" former US Ambassador to India Richard Verma asked. "I think there's a chance. It's going to take a little more energy," Biegun said. "The time is short before the US elections and a lot of governments around the world are hedging a little bit. I wouldn't be surprised if the Indian government as well,” the American diplomat said.

5 of the new Raphael fighters have already been delivered and stationed up near the Chinese border, and 4 are coming in the next batch, but with final delivery of all 36 not expected until late next year, by then they could receive nearly as many new Russian planes (40 are on order).
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/r...e-frame-307179
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/in...l-5786361.html

When most of these decisions were taken the pandemic wasn't a thing yet, or I'd suspect they wanted to buy weapons systems because of lack of confidence in their own manufacturing capability. Why buy fighter planes when you are building them? The answer could be time constraints, if China is gearing up for a new confrontation:
https://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...-swamy-2841162
The mini-deal completion is referred to in the link I posted. Why are you so doubtful?

Border disputes and incursions have been going on by China since the war with China on 1962 (Nehru). Also the irritation by the presence in India of the Dalai Lama (Tibet in Exile).
Pakistan is the real threat but 'helped' by China!! Also Pakistan main constant threat is with terrorism. India could easily 'destroy' Pakistan if there was a 'real' major confrontation--so it won't happen!
Yes India imports weapons.


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Old Sep 7th 2020, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
The mini-deal completion is referred to in the link I posted. Why are you so doubtful?
The mini-deal completion mentioned at the beginning of that article is a deal between the EU and the United States.
"With the US and the European Union signing a mini trade deal on Friday, the focus has now shifted to the long-drawn trade package being negotiated by India and the US"
Whenever I read something that doesn't mesh with what I've read in various other sources, and then I check and still find no corroboration, I'm doubtful.

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Old Sep 7th 2020, 9:22 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by caretaker
The mini-deal completion mentioned at the beginning of that article is a deal between the EU and the United States.
"With the US and the European Union signing a mini trade deal on Friday, the focus has now shifted to the long-drawn trade package being negotiated by India and the US"
Whenever I read something that doesn't mesh with what I've read in various other sources, and then I check and still find no corroboration, I'm doubtful.
Yes apologies---wrong link.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...LajOBJQDI.html
May I ask why are you interested in India trade deals?
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Old Sep 7th 2020, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
Yes apologies---wrong link.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...LajOBJQDI.html
May I ask why are you interested in India trade deals?
Already read that one, and it says still not finalised. I'm interested in the way India's defense contracts (as well as some other major purchases) are made because those deals reflect influence on world affairs. Reading foreign press, and even some propaganda, as well as journals of the defense industry all give clues to what could be happening now and in the near future.
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Old Sep 10th 2020, 3:39 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by caretaker
Already read that one, and it says still not finalised. I'm interested in the way India's defense contracts (as well as some other major purchases) are made because those deals reflect influence on world affairs. Reading foreign press, and even some propaganda, as well as journals of the defense industry all give clues to what could be happening now and in the near future.

You might be interested in this. The induction of the Rafale aircraft today.
"In military ability India will acquire world class capability".

https://theprint.in/defence/india-an...-parly/499787/

Heard the speeches on NDTV----French Defence Minister speaks perfect English!

(Previous Empire rulers such as British and France now close allies with India.)
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Old Sep 10th 2020, 6:25 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
You might be interested in this. The induction of the Rafale aircraft today.
"In military ability India will acquire world class capability".

https://theprint.in/defence/india-an...-parly/499787/

Heard the speeches on NDTV----French Defence Minister speaks perfect English!

(Previous Empire rulers such as British and France now close allies with India.)
I am confused, when on earth did Britain become a close military ally of India , let alone starting with the above posts India's purchases of Russian military equipment ? Is there a mutual defense agreement between India and the UK ? Doesn't India often take sides against the West in the UN, and in particular in reference to Indian ocean bases ? India is not part of NATO, it isn't part of the 'five eyes' intelligence agreement', or numerous other agreements and cooperation Britain has with its close allies- and certainly no one in their right mind would think India jump to Britain's defense in the 21st century.

Singapore has the five power defense agreement with the UK, does India have such arrangements ?

While there is some mutual consultation and procurement agreements and so forth it is perhaps one of the craziest ideas yet that the UK is a 'close ally' of India.

Unless the attached link incorrect seems India even deepening its relationship with Russia. : does this mean India is an ally of Russia ?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/77094253.cms



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Old Sep 10th 2020, 9:16 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by morpeth
1)I am confused, when on earth did Britain become a close military ally of India , let alone starting with the above posts India's purchases of Russian military equipment ?
2)Is there a mutual defense agreement between India and the UK ?
3)Doesn't India often take sides against the West in the UN, and in particular in reference to Indian ocean bases ? India is not part of NATO, it isn't part of the 'five eyes' intelligence agreement', or numerous other agreements and cooperation Britain has with its close allies- and certainly no one in their right mind would think India jump to Britain's defense in the 21st century.

Singapore has the five power defense agreement with the UK, does India have such arrangements ?

While there is some mutual consultation and procurement agreements and so forth it is perhaps one of the craziest ideas yet that the UK is a 'close ally' of India.

Unless the attached link incorrect seems India even deepening its relationship with Russia. : does this mean India is an ally of Russia ?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/77094253.cms
1) I was replying to a post of caretaker---read.
You dislike the word "ally"----we have been through this before.

2) https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...-new-agreement
The latest agreement with UK.
Other changes.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-in...-idUKKBN22S0J4


3) https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-a-blow-for-uk
94 against 15 countries. We have been through this before also. You just bring up one occasion.

If you read the above posts I pointed out to you the relationship with Russia----do you know about Seabird? The aircraft carriers etc. Do you meet pleasant Russian families in South Goa? (I always come back from there planning to learn some Russian). (Let's not forget Russian crime and prostitution in North Goa.!)
India gets defense equipment where it decides, including France and UK, as mentioned. Presume you realise the potential risks of China and Pakistan!

The defense and security agreements are separate from trade and other arrangements. (India even imports clothes from China, all airport computers are Lenovo.
It does not negate the absolute good relationship with the UK and EU countries. Also the Commonwealth associations.

(Just what circumstance do you expect the UK to need India to defend it militarily.)




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Old Sep 11th 2020, 3:27 pm
  #220  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
1) I was replying to a post of caretaker---read.
You dislike the word "ally"----we have been through this before.

2) https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...-new-agreement
The latest agreement with UK.
Other changes.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-in...-idUKKBN22S0J4


3) https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-a-blow-for-uk
94 against 15 countries. We have been through this before also. You just bring up one occasion.

If you read the above posts I pointed out to you the relationship with Russia----do you know about Seabird? The aircraft carriers etc. Do you meet pleasant Russian families in South Goa? (I always come back from there planning to learn some Russian). (Let's not forget Russian crime and prostitution in North Goa.!)
India gets defense equipment where it decides, including France and UK, as mentioned. Presume you realise the potential risks of China and Pakistan!

The defense and security agreements are separate from trade and other arrangements. (India even imports clothes from China, all airport computers are Lenovo.
It does not negate the absolute good relationship with the UK and EU countries. Also the Commonwealth associations.

(Just what circumstance do you expect the UK to need India to defend it militarily.)
Nothing you have written shows India is a close ally of the United Kingdom, not even remotely does the relationship approach that of Britain's close allies- even Singapore has a closer military relationship.

.
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 3:47 pm
  #221  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by morpeth
Nothing you have written shows India is a close ally of the United Kingdom, not even remotely does the relationship approach that of Britain's close allies- even Singapore has a closer military relationship.
Fresh alliances are made all the time, and old ones strengthened.
https://www.rt.com/news/500424-india...-deescalation/

When you are the democracy in an alliance with a dictatorship and an autocracy, the pressure must be incredible. Some are quite opinionated about it:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Indi...ord-with-China
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by caretaker
Fresh alliances are made all the time, and old ones strengthened.
https://www.rt.com/news/500424-india...-deescalation/

When you are the democracy in an alliance with a dictatorship and an autocracy, the pressure must be incredible. Some are quite opinionated about it:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Indi...ord-with-China

Disputes over border issues have been going on since independence. Nehru foolishly trusted China and it ended with Sino-Indian war in 1962. China is seeking to encircle India, investing heavily in Pakistan. The fact that India has allowed the Dalai Lama to have 'Tibet --in exile'--in India is a constant irritation to China. China just seems to want to 'nibble off' more bits!

At Independence India had to get help where it could and Congress party bought ships etc. from Russia. So Russia is still needed to service them etc.

India post independence has retained strong friendly links with the UK regardless of the jaundiced views of Morpeth, the number of India origin living there for a start! The investment, job creation etc.


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Old Sep 11th 2020, 10:12 pm
  #223  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
Disputes over border issues have been going on since independence. Nehru foolishly trusted China and it ended with Sino-Indian war in 1962. China is seeking to encircle India, investing heavily in Pakistan. The fact that India has allowed the Dalai Lama to have 'Tibet --in exile'--in India is a constant irritation to China. China just seems to want to 'nibble off' more bits!

At Independence India had to get help where it could and Congress party bought ships etc. from Russia. So Russia is still needed to service them etc.

India post independence has retained strong friendly links with the UK regardless of the jaundiced views of Morpeth, the number of India origin living there for a start! The investment, job creation etc.
The old arms deals with Russia are nothing compared to what is going on now, and 1962 is as irrelevant as 1947. The Dalai Lama is an irritation to China, but also irrelevant. When you are an efficient autocracy, or dictatorship, you can just walk over any opposition. I suspect you already know what the situation is.
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 8:19 am
  #224  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by caretaker
The old arms deals with Russia are nothing compared to what is going on now, and 1962 is as irrelevant as 1947. The Dalai Lama is an irritation to China, but also irrelevant. When you are an efficient autocracy, or dictatorship, you can just walk over any opposition. I suspect you already know what the situation is.
Nothing is irrelevant! China 'belt and road project', major investment in Pakistan (Pakistan-terrorism in India) encouragement of Nepal border issues (Nepal FOM into India) all balanced with economic issues.
India again has overtaken China as the fastest moving large economy. China and India are major trading partners which complicates China's incessant wish to enlarge borders!
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by caretaker
Fresh alliances are made all the time, and old ones strengthened.
https://www.rt.com/news/500424-india...-deescalation/

When you are the democracy in an alliance with a dictatorship and an autocracy, the pressure must be incredible. Some are quite opinionated about it:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Indi...ord-with-China
my post was in response to absurd idea India was a 'close ally' of the UK.

on the other had with unstable Pakistan net door one can well understand India wanting to maintain military superiority- andif it needs to get closerto Russia than it is to the west it is understandable.
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