India and the Wars

Old Mar 12th 2019, 12:48 am
  #736  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
It is a change in reporting practices by the press. Also changes in policing. But it was not a "taboo subject".
For heavens sake----- EMR----if you should watch Indian films!! ----"she's been "rapped" ----- as my dear late sister-in-law shouted to translate for me decades ago (to hushes from those sitting around us). (I had noticed!!!)

EMR--- It is months since I posted n that thread ---I stopped mainly due to the often abusive posts of you and your twin.
You were talking about malls in November after your holiday!
But nowhere near as many times as you,.

The reason you have not posted on the other thread is because your fantasy is dead and buried .
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 1:10 am
  #737  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Back to this thread,I read that Modi and the BJP are being charged with breaking election rules by using a photo of the released pilot on posters and election literature..
Apparently the pilot being a serving member of the forces cannot be involved in politics and election rules in India prohibit the use of the military and uniforms.

One BJP politician quoted as saying the attack on Pakistan could be worth 20, 25 seats for the BJP whose majority was previously under threat..
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 3:01 am
  #738  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

What did I say about Willmore'ing the quotes?

Please stop butchering them. I don't have time to keep fixing them.

As you were.
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 3:37 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
I think you are confused Morpeth---local taxation and trade is at State level. Just basic tax legislation by the Central Government a government which Goans are part of.

Their sameness is that they are members of the same families/communities. Same local language etc. along with other languages.
Do you describe yourself as having 'cultural similarities' to your relatives?????
Bipat you jut prove exactly my point- Goans are not free to run their own economy. Exactly the opposite to what you wrote before.

I said Goans were similar to those in territory adjacent to it. That isnt untrue. This issue is only in your mind since it has zero to do with the point I was making. India used force to takeover Goa FACT. India used force to take over Hyderbad. FACT
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 4:07 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
1) I have not made excuses----can you not understand the word 'reasons'?
Can you not understand that "the poor" are not one homogenous mass of 'clones'----they are different individuals!
Toilets are a priority.
Cancel the space programme and put people out of work? India gets 'aid'. Haven't you read the complaints about in UK newspapers.

2) How often are you going to mention Rwanda?

3) Morpeth--- are you saying there are no homeless and street sleepers in the UK? How many can afford foreign holidays?

There is free health care and schooling for all Indian people, food and gas subsidies. People travel long distances by bus and train.

What is very different is the size of the country---the remoteness of villages---the weather and terrain difficulties. These all add up to increase numbers in poverty.
That is not to say that there are millions in extreme poverty.

You give incidences of visitors view of poverty-----people travelling to India often land at Mumbai or Delhi where they see the dreadful slums near the airports and get the impression that all India is like this. The slums are partly due to people travelling from villages in the hope of work and not getting it.

Morpeth---- unemployment is a major cause of poverty in India only the advancement of the economy will help this.

4) How do YOU define happiness?* Are you saying that everyone's idea of happiness is the same. In my personal experience it is not having a job that causes UN-happiness.
Is employment an "ideologically" defined role???????


* You sound like the late Ken Dodd!!!!!!!
​​​​​​1) I have not made excuses----can you not understand the word 'reasons'?
Can you not understand that "the poor" are not one homogenous mass of 'clones'----they are different individuals!

I haven’t a clue what this is supposed to mean. When discussing anything effecting a country or group of people, one is speaking in generalizations on averages based on information available to which there are always exceptions. For some odd reason you seem to think a response to discussing the scale and type of poverty in India is to point out the poor are not all the same. I am unsure what that is supposed to prove. Just another excuse to avid the reality of terrible poverty that the middle and upper classes in India continue to tolerate.



2) Toilets are a priority.
Cancel the space programme and put people out of work? India gets 'aid'. Haven't you read the complaints about in UK newspapers.



Politician’s worldwide use the word priority, doesn’t mean in reality the actions match the rhetoric. Hardly with the extent of the problem in India could I see that toilets and related sanitation/health issues are a top national priority? But let us say I am wrong- what percentage of national budget is devoted to the ‘priority’? What prestige programs and expenditures have been cut specifically to devote to this priority? Does Modi go without a toilet to demonstrate his solidarity with the poor he claims to care about? I am quite sure putting a few scientists and supporting personnel out of work will more than be made up but supporting hundreds through work or even just improving their sanitation. I didn’t say India didn’t get aid –I referred to that politicians, and probably others who because of pride are not asking even begging for more aid.

2) How often are you going to mention Rwanda?



Simply there are different measurements of poverty and social conditions I provided abundant information showing how India ranks with countries like Indonesia and Philippines in social measurements and specifically in terms of consumption measurements of food/lodging etc. etc. in its poverty definition with Rwanda. Anyone can claim less poverty by lowering the criteria. Or simply most thing people would consider the poverty level/scale/type in Rwanda or Burundi as not on a par with the UK- yet you have the audacity to try to equate the UK and India measurements and type effects on poverty. Your arguments could be effective on people who have never visited India or the third world in general, or have little knowledge of economics.


3) Morpeth--- are you saying there are no homeless and street sleepers in the UK? How many can afford foreign holidays?



Obviously not as you well know, so I am unsure why childish comments are thrown out in this discussion. No one is saying there are not homeless in the UK. I discussed the people on average considered poor in the UK and how they live. If your criteria is someone completely homeless then the percentage of the UK population in poverty in the U is very low in terms of percentage compared to India.









There is free health care and schooling for all Indian people, food and gas subsidies. People travel long distances by bus and train.



That is nice. Not sure what it shows for the discussion.

What is very different is the size of the country---the remoteness of villages---the weather and terrain difficulties. These all add up to increase numbers in poverty.
That is not to say that there are millions in extreme poverty.




As mentioned you seem a bit confused- the same observations could be made of Russia or the United States or Argentina or Brazil etc etc. Again I provided abundant statistics on the issue on the type and scale of poverty in India, and the percentages classed at different levels of poverty- the problems you mention could be in many case overcome ( as they have been in other countries) by beneficial economic policies and priorities set by the government.





You give incidences of visitors view of poverty-----people travelling to India often land at Mumbai or Delhi where they see the dreadful slums near the airports and get the impression that all India is like this. The slums are partly due to people travelling from villages in the hope of work and not getting it.



Sounds like yet another excuse. And the two families I spoke of were not tourists they were originally from India, visiting relatives and their shops and farms that work in England has allowed them to purchase. I agree with you not all of India a slum, but reality is reality why not admit it?




Morphett---- unemployment is a major cause of poverty in India only the advancement of the economy will help this.



I was discussing its existence and scale not its causes. 70 years of wacky economic policies have an effect.

4) How do YOU define happiness?* Are you saying that everyone's idea of happiness is the same. In my personal experience it is not having a job that causes UN-happiness.
Is employment an "ideologically" defined role???????




Defining happiness is of course difficult, but having to work for some might not be their version of happiness or living up to peer pressure or whatever. All I said is for me the criteria I would be looking at in making such comparisons are happiness, contentment, family stability, etc as the most important.







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Old Mar 12th 2019, 4:10 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Back to this thread,I read that Modi and the BJP are being charged with breaking election rules by using a photo of the released pilot on posters and election literature..
Apparently the pilot being a serving member of the forces cannot be involved in politics and election rules in India prohibit the use of the military and uniforms.

One BJP politician quoted as saying the attack on Pakistan could be worth 20, 25 seats for the BJP whose majority was previously under threat..
EMR, that sort of thing happens in all sorts of democracies all the time.
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 4:28 am
  #742  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
EMR, that sort of thing happens in all sorts of democracies all the time.
Really when was The last time it happened in UK politics .
Note it is against Indian election law..
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 4:30 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
1) Bipat you jut prove exactly my point- Goans are not free to run their own economy. Exactly the opposite to what you wrote before.

I said Goans were similar to those in territory adjacent to it. That isnt untrue. This issue is only in your mind since it has zero to do with the point I was making. India used force to takeover Goa FACT. India used force to take over Hyderbad. FACT


1) I said local and taxation and trade was at State level. ( They also take part in governing the country, CM --Manohar Parrikar was previously Defence Minister of India)

https://business.mapsofindia.com/fin...mission/state/


2) I said Goans were the SAME as those in surrounding areas, not "similar"----SAME.

The Indian navy used force to rid Goa of the few remaining Portuguese who refused to leave. The words 'rescue', 'set free', 'annexation' 'invasion' have been used.
You Morpeth prefer the words -"takeover by force".

Why do you never discuss the annexation of Diu and Daman??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazi...-from-portugal



(I have told you that I do not know details of Hyderabad/Telangana)

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Old Mar 12th 2019, 4:43 am
  #744  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
1) I said local and taxation and trade was at State level. ( They also take part in governing the country, CM --Manohar Parrikar was previously Defence Minister of India)

https://business.mapsofindia.com/fin...mission/state/


2) I said Goans were the SAME as those in surrounding areas, not "similar"----SAME.

The Indian navy used force to rid Goa of the few remaining Portuguese who refused to leave. The words 'rescue', 'set free', 'annexation' 'invasion' have been used.
You Morpeth prefer the words -"takeover by force".

Why do you never discuss the annexation of Diu and Daman??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazi...-from-portugal



(I have told you that I do not know details of Hyderabad/Telangana)
Very true Bipat , ignorance so often in your case us bliss.
You could find out but then that might shatter your fragile illusions...
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 5:00 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
​​​​​​

1) I haven’t a clue what this is supposed to mean. When discussing anything effecting a country or group of people, one is speaking in generalizations on averages based on information available to which there are always exceptions. For some odd reason you seem to think a response to discussing the scale and type of poverty in India is to point out the poor are not all the same. I am unsure what that is supposed to prove. Just another excuse to avid the reality of terrible poverty that the middle and upper classes in India continue to tolerate.

2) Politician’s worldwide use the word priority, doesn’t mean in reality the actions match the rhetoric. Hardly with the extent of the problem in India could I see that toilets and related sanitation/health issues are a top national priority? But let us say I am wrong- what percentage of national budget is devoted to the ‘priority’? What prestige programs and expenditures have been cut specifically to devote to this priority? Does Modi go without a toilet to demonstrate his solidarity with the poor he claims to care about? I am quite sure putting a few scientists and supporting personnel out of work will more than be made up but supporting hundreds through work or even just improving their sanitation. I didn’t say India didn’t get aid –I referred to that politicians, and probably others who because of pride are not asking even begging for more aid.

3) (There is free health care and schooling for all Indian people, food and gas subsidies. For low income groups.---- People are able to travel long distances by bus and train.)

That is nice. Not sure what it shows for the discussion.

As mentioned you seem a bit confused- the same observations could be made of Russia or the United States or Argentina or Brazil etc etc. Again I provided abundant statistics on the issue on the type and scale of poverty in India, and the percentages classed at different levels of poverty- the problems you mention could be in many case overcome ( as they have been in other countries) by beneficial economic policies and priorities set by the government.

4)
(You give incidences of visitors view of poverty-----people travelling to India often land at Mumbai or Delhi where they see the dreadful slums near the airports and get the impression that all India is like this. The slums are partly due to people travelling from villages in the hope of work and not getting it).

Sounds like yet another excuse. And the two families I spoke of were not tourists they were originally from India, visiting relatives and their shops and farms that work in England has allowed them to purchase. I agree with you not all of India a slum, but reality is reality why not admit it?



5)
Unemployment-----I was discussing its existence and scale not its causes. 70 years of wacky economic policies have an effect.

Defining happiness is of course difficult, but having to work for some might not be their version of happiness or living up to peer pressure or whatever. All I said is for me the criteria I would be looking at in making such comparisons are happiness, contentment, family stability, etc as the most important.

I have edited your usual cumbersome post.

1) What do you mean middle and upper class "tolerate it"? precisely what can they do except vote for the Government likely to improve the economy and help those they come into contact with.

2) You are obsessed with toilets! It is useless explaining to you how it was, how it is and programmes to improve.

3) Why the sarcasm? free health care, free schools, food and gas subsidies for low income are "nice"!!!!!!!! (The new health scheme???)

4) you agree that ALL India is not a slum!!!!!!!----again sarcasm-----Why is tourism flourishing do you think?????

5) "Wacky economic policies"------?????

The worlds fastest growing large economy!!!!!!!!

I think many adults world over aspire to having a 'job'.

Morpeth------ these continual negative posts from you who visited India about 40 years ago (I think you said)!!


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Old Mar 12th 2019, 5:05 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Very true Bipat , ignorance so often in your case us bliss.
You could find out but then that might shatter your fragile illusions...
The ignorance that come from living in a place rather than taking a 3 week holiday.

I was not in Hyderabad in 1948. Nor were any relatives. I post about what I know ---not just read up in selected books.

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Old Mar 12th 2019, 5:11 am
  #747  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
The ignorance that come from living in a place rather than taking a 3 week holiday.

I was not in Hyderabad in 1948. Nor were any relatives. I post about what I know ---not just read up in selected books.
Very true Bipat , at least you have admitted that, are not interested in facts or recorded history just propoganda and folk memory...
.
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 5:27 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Very true Bipat , at least you have admitted that, are not interested in facts or recorded history just propoganda and folk memory...
.
So EMR what you have told us about your holiday was folk memory?
"Recorded" history ????? You have read ALL of it?
What do you describe as "propaganda", that which you disagree with???
Presume you believe what you see and experience in the UK?
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 5:43 am
  #749  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bob
What did I say about Willmore'ing the quotes?

Please stop butchering them. I don't have time to keep fixing them.

As you were.
Not sure what you mean? I 'butcher' the posts of the OP who puts the his reply within a re-posted quote, but this seems to be the only way.
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Old Mar 12th 2019, 5:49 am
  #750  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
So EMR what you have told us about your holiday was folk memory?
"Recorded" history ????? You have read ALL of it?
What do you describe as "propaganda", that which you disagree with???
Presume you believe what you see and experience in the UK?
Unlike you and India I do not ignore or rewrite UK history because it does not correspond with my views..
Propoganda and you , , Goa, Kashmir, Assam , Sikkim, famines, etc etc , ad nauseam..
Where facts dispute almost everything you believe and post.
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