India and the Wars

Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:43 am
  #676  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

EMR
End this part of this thread with something pleasant.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...282-2019-03-09
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 11:45 am
  #677  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR, The State was legally acceded to India.
Just for interest if the referendum had taken place where would you have put the border?
How many would have died at that time. It is unlikely that the decision would have been unanimous for either Pakistan or India.
As I said it takes two countries to go to war.


Regardless of whether the referendum should have been held, it is now 2019. Are you aware of that?????

Why don't you learn at least something about Pakistan and about Kashmir itself before calling me "thick".
I cannot understand that you post all this 'stuff' about Kashmir, when you have never been there, and never spoken to a Kashmiri.

(Apparently you care nothing for the ethnic cleansing of Hindus because there were less of them even though they had lived in Kashmir long before the Mughals came.)
Have ever read anything about the events of 1947,49.
You post such nonsense I doubt it, probably because you just cannot stand to read anything that would burst your bubble of misinformation and prejudice..
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 10:47 pm
  #678  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR I know what you are doing!
You seem to have this ambition to criticise anything to do with India, as though it is the only country in the world where horrific acts happen.
Of course I condemn rape of little girls in India. Of course of course I condemn religious violence. Rape of a child is rape regardless of religion.

However I also condemn rape of little girls and babies in the UK. Grooming, rape and abuse of older vulnerable girls. Cruelty and abuse in any form, in any country regardless of religion or no religion.
Bipat, I have had long debates with EMR on other threads- and actually on most subjects we have different opinions. If he posts on this thread about India in response to your comments it is because this thread is about India ! You always try to equate the situation in India to other places, which appears often to be ignoring the particular issues concerning India- there are obvious differences for example between the type of poverty in India and the UK, or the treatment of women- doesnt mean if someone points out particular situation in India they are ignoring problems in UK or elsewhere. . .

There is a lot of press on the subject of treatment of women in India, I certainly have no basis for a strong opinion on the matter.But I do not think EMT is picking on India he criticizes other places just a strongly- and your posts do come across a some sort of propaganda machine for India.any average person would say it is terrible India cant provide proper toilets and sanitation for tens and tens of millions of people- when pointed out you bring up all sorts of excuses, denying data, denying relevance,or whenever possible blaming the British etc etc. Same goes for almost any subject.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 10:47 pm
  #679  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR I know what you are doing!
You seem to have this ambition to criticise anything to do with India, as though it is the only country in the world where horrific acts happen.
Of course I condemn rape of little girls in India. Of course of course I condemn religious violence. Rape of a child is rape regardless of religion.

However I also condemn rape of little girls and babies in the UK. Grooming, rape and abuse of older vulnerable girls. Cruelty and abuse in any form, in any country regardless of religion or no religion.
Bipat, I have had long debates with EMR on other threads- and actually on most subjects we have different opinions. If he posts on this thread about India in response to your comments it is because this thread is about India ! You always try to equate the situation in India to other places, which appears often to be ignoring the particular issues concerning India- there are obvious differences for example between the type of poverty in India and the UK, or the treatment of women- doesnt mean if someone points out particular situation in India they are ignoring problems in UK or elsewhere. . .

There is a lot of press on the subject of treatment of women in India, I certainly have no basis for a strong opinion on the matter.But I do not think EMT is picking on India he criticizes other places just a strongly- and your posts do come across a some sort of propaganda machine for India.any average person would say it is terrible India cant provide proper toilets and sanitation for tens and tens of millions of people- when pointed out you bring up all sorts of excuses, denying data, denying relevance,or whenever possible blaming the British etc etc. Same goes for almost any subject.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 10:51 pm
  #680  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
Morpeth it doesn't need a dictionary to understand a few simple FACTS.
A group of people consisting of families and communitues have a border/barrier put between them. When this barrier is removed they don't need a referendum to decide to continue as one group of people.

They were all Indian people, the people of Goa were not Portuguese.
The 'invasion' if you must call it that was a minimum force to ensure the Portuguese left. (I have a letter, hand written describing the ships arriving at the south, and subsequent events------probably has some 'recorded history value.)

India is a federation of States, they have local rule.
In response I listed FACTS- please do let me know any fact I posted- which I followed by the word FACT was not indeed rue.

By the way I am curious- it has been said one of Atlee's motivations at quitting India quickly was the financial drain which didnt bode well for his social programs. Your opinion ?, ​​​​​​

Last edited by Bob; Mar 12th 2019 at 2:56 am. Reason: quote fix
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 12:24 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
In response I listed FACTS- please do let me know any fact I posted- which I followed by the word FACT was not indeed rue.

By the way I am curious- it has been said one of Atlee's motivations at quitting India quickly was the financial drain which didnt bode well for his social programs. Your opinion ?, ​​​​​​


Morpeth when you and your twin* EMR post "FACTS"----- many are open to interpretation, some are opinions.
You also refuse to accept the concept of justification (right or reasonable)---Homicide is a crime----- in self-defence it is justified.

You also continually use the word "similar" in describing people of the 'same' family and community; somehow refusing to accept that dividing such people by a border by a foreign power----is wrong---- because other foreign powers 'decide' it is "legal".

Just one opinion regarding Attlee. I have read in several accounts that India was becoming ungovernable.
https://www.14gaam.com/why-british-left-from-india.htm

*Euphemism

Last edited by Bob; Mar 12th 2019 at 2:56 am. Reason: quote fix
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 12:36 am
  #682  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat


Morpeth when you and your twin* EMR post "FACTS"----- many are open to interpretation, some are opinions.
You also refuse to accept the concept of justification (right or reasonable)---Homicide is a crime----- in self-defence it is justified.

You also continually use the word "similar" in describing people of the 'same' family and community; somehow refusing to accept that dividing such people by a border by a foreign power----is wrong---- because other foreign powers 'decide' it is "legal".

Just one opinion regarding Attlee. I have read in several accounts that India was becoming ungovernable.
https://www.14gaam.com/why-british-left-from-india.htm

*Euphemism
Apart from the economic argument there was certainly little appetite after the 2nd global war in 30 years for the UK to be involved what would have become an increasingly violent Indpendence campaign in India...
The UK left Burma, Palestine , any where in those immediate post war years where British blood was being shed trying to hold back the advance of time.

Is your family descended from " northern interlopers" who drove the indigenous peoples of India to the south..
Invasion, occupation, repression, division has been part of the history of the sub continent , British rule , warts and all is just one chapter of many..
Facts are Facts.

Last edited by Bob; Mar 12th 2019 at 2:57 am. Reason: quote fix
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 12:54 am
  #683  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
Bipat, I have had long debates with EMR on other threads- and actually on most subjects we have different opinions. If he posts on this thread about India in response to your comments it is because this thread is about India ! You always try to equate the situation in India to other places, which appears often to be ignoring the particular issues concerning India-
1) there are obvious differences for example between the type of poverty in India and the UK, or the treatment of women- doesnt mean if someone points out particular situation in India they are ignoring problems in UK or elsewhere. . .

2) There is a lot of press on the subject of treatment of women in India, I certainly have no basis for a strong opinion on the matter.But I do not think EMT is picking on India he criticizes other places just a strongly- and your posts do come across a some sort of propaganda machine for India.
3)any average person would say it is terrible India cant provide proper toilets and sanitation for tens and tens of millions of people- when pointed out you bring up all sorts of excuses, denying data, denying relevance,or whenever possible blaming the British etc etc. Same goes for almost any subject.


Yes there are obvious differences in poverty between India and the UK-----the main difference is numbers due to population size! Also you often equate simple village life with 'miserable' poverty.
You fail to see the difference between village life and the dreadful city poverty of the slums. You also fail to see the self-perpetuation to some extent of the latter by those involved in the 'black economy'.
You fail to accept State differences ---climate, terrain etc.

2) Again you fail to know the differences at different levels of society. In some ways Indian women (middle and upper class) have more equality/opportunity than in Western countries.

I have put this link before.
Note it is published in a UK newspaper and comments on BBC bias also it concerns 'FACTS'.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...the-facts.html

3) Yes it is an outrage when people have to share toilets or can't be persuaded to give up outdoor defaecation.
You again use the word "India" when to some extent it is State differences. Also in past posts you equate outdoor toilets with 'no' toilets because of wording on census forms.

(You might also know that though there are many who would much prefer a 'squatting style' toilet, many particularly elderly----women and men prefer western style, although the latter much more difficult to keep clean) ---------there is always more than ONE answer/reason/purpose for anything Morpeth.





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Old Mar 11th 2019, 1:10 am
  #684  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR

Apart from the economic argument there was certainly little appetite after the 2nd global war in 30 years for the UK to be involved what would have become an increasingly violent Indpendence campaign in India...
The UK left Burma, Palestine , any where in those immediate post war years where British blood was being shed trying to hold back the advance of time.

Is your family descended from " northern interlopers" who drove the indigenous peoples of India to the south..
Invasion, occupation, repression, division has been part of the history of the sub continent , British rule , warts and all is just one chapter of many..

Facts are Facts.
EMR you seem to have messed up the quote again ---hope I have edited it correctly.

Yes my family are not Dravidian, so they did descend from interlopers. However such people settled in the country, inter-married----became PART of the country.

There is a great difference between rule by a foreign/distant power in the 19th/20th century when the rulers only aim was their own benefit; they had no interest in becoming part of the country.



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Old Mar 11th 2019, 1:18 am
  #685  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR you seem to have messed up the quote again ---hope I have edited it correctly.

Yes my family are not Dravidian, so they did descend from interlopers. However such people settled in the country, inter-married----became PART of the country.

There is a great difference between rule by a foreign/distant power in the 19th/20th century when the rulers only aim was their own benefit; they had no interest in becoming part of the country.
Not a good day again for you Bipat , I messed nothing up , yet another of your rambles.
Once again you need to get your Indian history books out.
The Greeks, Persian, Tamerlane, the Afghans , others , all invaded, filled their boots with loot and left..

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Old Mar 11th 2019, 1:28 am
  #686  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Not a good day again for you Bipat , I messed nothing up , yet another of your rambles.
Once again you need to get your Indian history books out.
The Greeks, Persian, Tamerlane, the Afghans , others , all invaded, filled their boots with loot and left..
(Look at your post before I edited it)

You are the one 'rambling again equating Ancient Greece and 20th century Britain!!!!!!!
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 1:47 am
  #687  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
(Look at your post before I edited it)

You are the one 'rambling again equating Ancient Greece and 20th century Britain!!!!!!!
Once again you seem to have major comprehension issues and an inability to accept historical facts.
I did not equate the ancient Greeks with 20th century Britain..
Keep on Rambling Bipat.
.
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 2:09 am
  #688  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Once again you seem to have major comprehension issues and an inability to accept historical facts.
I did not equate the ancient Greeks with 20th century Britain..
Keep on Rambling Bipat.
.
EMR -----Twin-Morpeth, asked a question about Attlee and India in 1947.
You state British rule just "one chapter of many", referring back to 1st century CE.

Would you refer back to Roman Empire when asked a question about WW2??

(EMR --I am well aware of historical facts, however events that took place within living memory or this century! seem more relevant to discussions on this thread.)
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 2:35 am
  #689  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR -----Twin-Morpeth, asked a question about Attlee and India in 1947.
You state British rule just "one chapter of many", referring back to 1st century CE.

Would you refer back to Roman Empire when asked a question about WW2??

(EMR --I am well aware of historical facts, however events that took place within living memory or this century! seem more relevant to discussions on this thread.)
BRITISH rule was just one of many.
You clearly are having serious comprehension issues.,
I started the reply with a reference to the post WW2 government of the UK.
Are you the same Bipat who re.peatedly claimed that the ancient civilisation that predated the wave after wave of invaders,including your own families ancestors, is the same India that existed in 1947..
You have shown very little understanding of historical fact, if you did these threads would have died long ago...
Confused, my name is Bipat.
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 4:21 am
  #690  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
BRITISH rule was just one of many.
You clearly are having serious comprehension issues.,
I started the reply with a reference to the post WW2 government of the UK.
Are you the same Bipat who re.peatedly claimed that the ancient civilisation that predated the wave after wave of invaders,including your own families ancestors, is the same India that existed in 1947..
You have shown very little understanding of historical fact, if you did these threads would have died long ago...
Confused, my name is Bipat.
I think I realise now, where you are 'coming from' EMR; you spend your time reading history books without any present day knowledge of the actual 'place' you are reading about!!
Totally irrelevant remarks regarding Morpeth's question about Attlee, and scot47s origin of this thread.

Yes, there were wave after wave of invaders, however the FACT that 80% of the country is still nominally Hindu indicates the continuation of this philosophy from ancient India by the Dravidian and Aryan peoples who developed a roughly homogenous 'people' by inter-mixing and travel.

Other invaders left far less 'mark'.

Have you in your extensive Indian research read the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. (Both have been series on TV!!!)




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