India and the Wars

Old Mar 9th 2019, 1:48 am
  #661  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Facts are not twisting words but you do not understand that.
You ignore recorded history because you are biased.
We will never know what the majority in kashmir think because they will never be asked

At least I have got you to look into the history of pre the nation that exists today.

Sometimes violence is justified where would you have gained your liberties without it.
Liberties you deny others.
Again you edit your post. I have been reading Indian history for decades.
So you justify violence!
What liberties have I denied others?
As said go to Kashmir and talk to people.

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Old Mar 9th 2019, 2:06 am
  #662  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
Again you edit your post. I have been reading Indian history for decades.
So you justify violence!
What liberties have I denied others?
As said go to Kashmir and talk to people.
​​​​​​
You approve of the Indian occupation of kashmir, denying the peoples the right to self determination.
YOU approve of the violence by the army in kashmir against civilians and others protesting and fighting for their rights.

​​
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 2:42 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
​​​​​​
You approve of the Indian occupation of kashmir, denying the peoples the right to self determination.
YOU approve of the violence by the army in kashmir against civilians and others protesting and fighting for their rights.

​​
1) EMR -----what is your definition of "self determination" in this situation.
2) EMR----what are the rights of the majority?
3) EMR-----WHEN are you ever going to talk to Kashmiri people?

I do not approve of violence except in self-defence and protection of others.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 2:58 am
  #664  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
1) EMR -----what is your definition of "self determination" in this situation.
2) EMR----what are the rights of the majority?
3) EMR-----WHEN are you ever going to talk to Kashmiri people?

I do not approve of violence except in self-defence and protection of others.
​​​​​
Read the UN resolution on Kashmir.
So you do not approve of the actions of the Indian army in kashmir
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 3:19 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
​​​​​
Read the UN resolution on Kashmir.
So you do not approve of the actions of the Indian army in kashmir

EMR----You mean the 1947 resolution. Explain how that would take place in Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

-EMR ----I will ask you again. What are the rights of the majority?
When are you going to talk to any Kashmiri people?
(I have asked you several times how you think people there earn a living----no answers to any questions from yourself.)

The Indian army is in Kashmir to keep the peace and prevent incursions over the border, that is their duty. They should not 'overstep' this duty.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 3:45 am
  #666  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

I take you have not read the resolutions calling for a plebiscite
How do you think a majority Muslim population would have voted.

Shooting down unarmed demonstrators is not keeping the peace..
That is exactly the same as Dyer did in Amritsar.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 3:57 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
I take you have not read the resolutions calling for a plebiscite
How do you think a majority Muslim population would have voted.

Shooting down unarmed demonstrators is not keeping the peace..
That is exactly the same as Dyer did in Amritsar.
You mean the 1947? We are discussing 2019 and the present majority.
Kashmir is still a majority Muslim State. (Muslims are not 'clones' they have differing views.)

If you are speaking of the occasion when the demonstrators were stoning the army and an army officer was killed. The resulting firing by the army was condemned.

Nothing whatsoever like the Dyer incident.

When are YOU ever going to answer even the above simple questions?

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Old Mar 9th 2019, 4:03 am
  #668  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
You mean the 1947? We are discussing 2019 and the present majority.
Kashmir is still a majority Muslim State. (Muslims are not 'clones' they have differing views.)

If you are speaking of the occasion when the demonstrators were stoning the army and an army officer was killed. The resulting firing by the army was condemned.

Nothing whatsoever like the Dyer incident.

When are YOU ever going to answer even the above simple questions?
​​​​​​
We are and have been discussing for ever the background to the kashmir conflict.
Do you realise that you said the shooting of Muslim demonstrators for self determination by Indian troops is not the same as happened under British rule.
In kashmir it has happened a number of times, check your facts


With a 70 %, Muslim population its obvious why India never allowed a plebiscite over 40000 deaths have paid the price.

Last edited by EMR; Mar 9th 2019 at 4:10 am.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 5:01 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
​​​​​​
We are and have been discussing for ever the background to the kashmir conflict.
Do you realise that you said the shooting of Muslim demonstrators for self determination by Indian troops is not the same as happened under British rule.
In kashmir it has happened a number of times, check your facts
With a 70 %, Muslim population its obvious why India never allowed a plebiscite over 40000 deaths have paid the price.

This discussion started regarding the recent terrorist attack. We are discussing the situation NOW. The background is certainly not as simple as you make it out to be.
Do you totally disregard the actions of Pakistan???? It takes two to make a war!

The demonstrators were 'separatists'----the majority of Kashmiri citizens are NOT separatists. WHEN will you accept that? They are a minority; although a large minority, are you saying that a minority should decide the future of Kashmir???????
The Kashmiris are divided about their future ------the majority want the status quo----to live and earn their living, their girls to be educated-------why are you against that???????

Why do you never examine the actions of Pakistan? What happened to Benazir Bhutto, Nawaz Shariff two PMs on the verge of making peace.


The Indians involved in the Dyer situation were not a 'minority' it was their country. They were not throwing stones. The British were interlopers from thousands of miles away and in no way connected to India.

I wonder when you will answer such simple questions????
How many Kashmiris have you talked to? How do you think they earn their livings?

[ I wish you would answer ----then you will have the last word, which is what you want in all the threads you post in]
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 5:35 am
  #670  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
This discussion started regarding the recent terrorist attack. We are discussing the situation NOW. The background is certainly not as simple as you make it out to be.
Do you totally disregard the actions of Pakistan???? It takes two to make a war!

The demonstrators were 'separatists'----the majority of Kashmiri citizens are NOT separatists. WHEN will you accept that? They are a minority; although a large minority, are you saying that a minority should decide the future of Kashmir???????
The Kashmiris are divided about their future ------the majority want the status quo----to live and earn their living, their girls to be educated-------why are you against that???????

Why do you never examine the actions of Pakistan? What happened to Benazir Bhutto, Nawaz Shariff two PMs on the verge of making peace.


The Indians involved in the Dyer situation were not a 'minority' it was their country. They were not throwing stones. The British were interlopers from thousands of miles away and in no way connected to India.

I wonder when you will answer such simple questions????
How many Kashmiris have you talked to? How do you think they earn their livings?

[ I wish you would answer ----then you will have the last word, which is what you want in all the threads you post in]
Nothing you ever post excuses your support for the shooting of civilians demonstrating for the rights for self determination..
Muslims are the majority in Kashmir, the Indian security forces are the occupying power.
Why have Indias actions in Kashmir been universally condemned by almost every major power, UN and human rights organisation.

Nothing you have ever posted disputes the historical facts that created the conflict.
With atitudes like yours its no wonder that this conflict will go on probably for ever...




Last edited by EMR; Mar 9th 2019 at 5:41 am.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 6:02 am
  #671  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Nothing you ever post excuses your support for the shooting of civilians demonstrating for the rights for self determination..
Muslims are the majority in Kashmir, the Indian security forces are the occupying power.
Why have Indias actions in Kashmir been universally condemned by almost every major power, UN and human rights organisation.

Nothing you have ever posted disputes the historical facts that created the conflict.
With atitudes like yours its no wonder that this conflict will go on probably for ever...
I have not disputed historical 'facts', that created conflict.
I have not supported the shooting of the civilians. I SAID it was condemned.

The minority of a population do not have the right to decide the future of that population. Why do you think they have. The separatists are a minority.

The majority if India's Muslims do not live in Kashmir State.

SO---I will ask YET again---possibly get answers!

What is your view of Pakistan's terrorist actions (condemned worldwide)?
What happened to the two Pakistan PMs on the verge of making peace?
How many Kashmiri people have you talked to?
How do Kashmiris they make their livings?

WHY EMR are you unable to answer simple questions????

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Old Mar 9th 2019, 7:32 am
  #672  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
I have not disputed historical 'facts', that created conflict.
I have not supported the shooting of the civilians. I SAID it was condemned.

The minority of a population do not have the right to decide the future of that population. Why do you think they have. The separatists are a minority.

The majority if India's Muslims do not live in Kashmir State.

SO---I will ask YET again---possibly get answers!

What is your view of Pakistan's terrorist actions (condemned worldwide)?
What happened to the two Pakistan PMs on the verge of making peace?
How many Kashmiri people have you talked to?
How do Kashmiris they make their livings?

WHY EMR are you unable to answer simple questions????
What is your view of the universal condemnation of years of repression by the Indian security forces.
Kashmir is where it is today because India has never allowed the Muslim majority a voice in its own destiny...
None of your questions are relevant because of the cause of the conflict., which is beyond your comprehension.

I

Last edited by EMR; Mar 9th 2019 at 7:46 am.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 8:22 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
What is your view of the universal condemnation of years of repression by the Indian security forces.
Kashmir is where it is today because India has never allowed the Muslim majority a voice in its own destiny...
None of your questions are relevant because of the cause of the conflict., which is beyond your comprehension.

I
EMR the cause of the present day conflict after 70 years is also to do with Pakistan. You know nothing about Pakistan.
You can't answer the questions because also you know nothing whatever about Kashmiri people.
The majority of the Kashmiri people are not separatists why are you not able to understand this??
They are all Muslims!!
They are the Muslim majority. They are ruled by Muslims, they have their own constitution.
What destiny would you prefer for them? To be ruled by Pakistan against their wishes? To lose their jobs, to have no income.
Have you not realised if Kashmir was handed over to Pakistan many would migrate into other Indian States. Why should they lose their homes, trade.
Not allowed a voice----what is an election for?

EMR you are keen to go back in history, Sikhs and Hindus were there before Muslims.

What about the Pandits ethnic cleansing? Presume you agree with this because there were less if them.
Mehbooba was trying to encourage them to come back, did she really think that they would dare?

So for you, actually knowing and talking to Kashmiri people in 2019 is irrelevant.

Because an EMR living thousands of miles away has decided only he knows what they want, that the minority separatists should make all decisions.

Last edited by Bipat; Mar 9th 2019 at 8:48 am.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 8:31 am
  #674  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR the cause of the present day conflict after 70 years is also to do with Pakistan.
You can't answer the questions because you know nothing whatever about Kashmiri people.
The majority of the Kashmiri majority are not separatists why are you not able to undersrand this??
Thick would be a polite description for you.
The cause India's occupation in 1947, refusal to let the population vote on if they want to join Pakistan or join India the effect anywhere between 400000 and 100000 dead depending in your source..
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:26 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Thick would be a polite description for you.
The cause India's occupation in 1947, refusal to let the population vote on if they want to join Pakistan or join India the effect anywhere between 400000 and 100000 dead depending in your source..
EMR, The State was legally acceded to India.
Just for interest if the referendum had taken place where would you have put the border?
How many would have died at that time. It is unlikely that the decision would have been unanimous for either Pakistan or India.
As I said it takes two countries to go to war.


Regardless of whether the referendum should have been held, it is now 2019. Are you aware of that?????

Why don't you learn at least something about Pakistan and about Kashmir itself before calling me "thick".
I cannot understand that you post all this 'stuff' about Kashmir, when you have never been there, and never spoken to a Kashmiri.

(Apparently you care nothing for the ethnic cleansing of Hindus because there were less of them even though they had lived in Kashmir long before the Mughals came.)







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