India and the Wars

Old Mar 6th 2019, 6:38 am
  #616  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Can people please stop "Willmore'ing" the quotes?

Spoiler:

It's a pain in the dick.


Thanks.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 11:08 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
1) I think you are mixed Morpeth ----On the one hand you say that separation was necessary and then you say that the necessity "doesn't condone indignity suffered by individuals"------What else did it do?????
(You frequently use the word 'emotional' to describe disagreement with your views. Perhaps individual loss of dignity did produce negative emotions!!!!)

2) Morpeth--- Christian influence and let us say 'strongly encouraged' (bought) conversion went on far longer than 18th century. Convent and Christian schools taught all pupils Christian dogma.
You constantly use the words 'Hindu Nationalism' ---approx. 80% of the population is nominally Hindu! Why is that a problem for you? They don't go round the world 'converting' people!

3) You say you 'do not know the extent' but will not accept that I might have more knowledge of the extent!!!! I was not describing "Ethnic" communities------In India there are multiple smaller groups/communities related to origins etc. I can't give you names of such communities as it would for Goa give personal info.

4) Not possible to give details of the Indian tax system here-----but essentially local economy and taxation is managed by the States themselves.
That is why some States are wealthier than others (along with environmental differences).
​​​​​​1) I think you are mixed Morpeth ----On the one hand you say that separation was necessary and then you say that the necessity "doesn't condone indignity suffered by individuals"------What else did it do?????

I haven’t a clue what your point is. Actually if you read what I posted I simply posted out that the ‘separation’ you constantly complain about (and which has nothing to do with the issues being discussed) had a purpose ( whether with 21st sensibilities or Hindu nationalists agree with) which some- I said some- may consider justified by the extraordinary efficiency of British rule in India requiring so few British civil servants. And you may wish to re-read my post- there are many policies governments may adopt that on an individual basis maybe objectionable. That is true worldwide.

And it is ironic that in a country with its caste system and how untouchables were treated ( and you will probably come up with some comment that is the fault of the British as well) that you feel so strongly about the separation issue that in the end was an issue for the upper and some in the middle classes.



2) (You frequently use the word 'emotional' to describe disagreement with your views. Perhaps individual loss of dignity did produce negative emotions!!!!)

No I do not use that word for someone who disagrees, but for someone posting emotional subjective views that have no evidence or even basic logic to support such views- over and over and over when confronted with facts or evidence our enable to answer. I wasn’t aware that you or your own ancestors suffered such dignity you refer to but if the whole subject too emotional for you maybe that explains the challenges you face in dealing with logic and evidence.

3)
2) Morpeth--- Christian influence and let us say 'strongly encouraged' (bought) conversion went on far longer than 18th century. Convent and Christian schools taught all pupils Christian dogma.

The manner in such missionary activity doe in the 18th century quite different than that by the late19th and 20th centuries. If one looks throughout Asia and indeed most of the third world, Parochial schools provided many future leaders* whether converted of not) and brought education to many. Why wouldn’t a convent or other Christian school not teach Christian dogma? Just as a Madrassa would teach Islamic dogma?





4)
You constantly use the words 'Hindu Nationalism' ---approx. 80% of the population is nominally Hindu! Why is that a problem for you? They don't go round the world 'converting' people!



You express what seems to be a fanatic Hindu nationalist that can’t deal with logic or evidence, and seems very resentful Muslims or British or anyone for that matter who has the audacity to point out your tourist promotion version of India may be just propaganda.



I haven’t the slightest problem with anyone of faith trying to convert others. If I were Indian I probably wouldn’t like anything that would interfere with my own cultural and religious beliefs so I can understand that.



You keep saying myself or EMR have a problem with Hindus because comments made about extremist views.

3) You say you 'do not know the extent' but will not accept that I might have more knowledge of the extent!!!! I was not describing "Ethnic" communities------In India there are multiple smaller groups/communities related to origins etc. I can't give you names of such communities as it would for Goa give personal info.



You may wish to look up the word ethnic. I have no doubt you might have more knowledge but since you will avoid logic or evidence that may beget questions about your emotional viewpoints it is normal for someone to question your assertions.

4) Not possible to give details of the Indian tax system here-----but essentially local economy and taxation is managed by the States themselves.
That is why some States are wealthier than others (along with environmental differences).



Totally missing the point- because of some degree of local control that doesn’t negate the occupied territories are not sovereign.

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Old Mar 7th 2019, 11:14 am
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
Your usual cumbersome post----Morpeth WHY do you not reply in the usual way??????

1) Taxation----- your view is an "opinion" the views of others are "nonsense"!!

2) You choose which views you agree with and these views become 'evidence'.
How many times do I repeat points which you ignore, I have NOT said there is PERFECT harmony between religious groups -----I SAID the majority get along with each other day to day in most areas.

3) The space programme was started by Nehru years ago-----I have said it wasn't appropriate then. It wouldn't be appropriate to start it now.
BUT NOW to waste all the research, the progress, put people out of work etc. is a different matter.
Morpeth are you not able to realise differences in different timing of events?

4) "Anti---British Mania"-----???? I am British!! I think that there was much wrong about the Empire Raj ---and the refusal to allow independence -----it was the British Governments of THOSE times. Why cannot you see that? Do you approve of EVERYTHING Britain does?????

Kashmir "heels of Indian occupation", the State is ruled by its own Chief Minister and has its own Constitution----"heel"?
I would have thought with your views on the importance of economy the trade and economy which relies on being part of India, would have your approval??

Regarding Goa ---as I said your complete lack of knowledge regarding the area, makes it impossible for you to understand the situation.Has any Goan Government Minister ever mentioned a referendum on independence?????

5) I said the people of Hyderabad seem happy with their situation - --- Large numbers did not show an inclination to leave when partition happened in 1947. Since then division has been for other reasons not religion----As I said there is freedom of religion .
That is quite different from saying if they don't like it they can leave---you are twisting words.

"Asians"---I presume you are referring to Indian people----well yes, they came voluntarily, so if they don't like it they can go home and many do---or go to other countries.

Yes, self determination the right not to be occupied/ruled by a foreign country that has no connections with its people.

You are determined to insist that I am in some way a Hindu extremist. I am not in any way religious---except to think Jesus had good ideas if un-workable!-
Hinduism anyway is a way of life----and philosophy rather than a religion----and there are multiple different groups.

Goan Hindus are said to be particularly strict. Personal 'folk' experience confirms this.

I am not in any way Indian except as OCI as a spouse---(apparently if Indian would certainly be an inferior in your eyes!!)
Yes your views on taxation under the British and the effect on the economy are nonsense , and for which I provided links showing the evidence. evidence showed so.​​​​​

One could be excused for saying considering your emotional and subjective views about India for thinking you have adopted the country as your main home and nationality.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
​​​​​​1)I think you are mixed Morpeth ----On the one hand you say that separation was necessary and then you say that the necessity "doesn't condone indignity suffered by individuals"------What else did it do?????

I haven’t a clue what your point is. Actually if you read what I posted I simply posted out that the ‘separation’ you constantly complain about (and which has nothing to do with the issues being discussed) had a purpose ( whether with 21st sensibilities or Hindu nationalists agree with) which some- I said some- may consider justified by the extraordinary efficiency of British rule in India requiring so few British civil servants. And you may wish to re-read my post- there are many policies governments may adopt that on an individual basis maybe objectionable. That is true worldwide.

And it is ironic that in a country with its caste system and how untouchables were treated ( and you will probably come up with some comment that is the fault of the British as well) that you feel so strongly about the separation issue that in the end was an issue for the upper and some in the middle classes.



2) (You frequently use the word 'emotional' to describe disagreement with your views. Perhaps individual loss of dignity did produce negative emotions!!!!)

No I do not use that word for someone who disagrees, but for someone posting emotional subjective views that have no evidence or even basic logic to support such views- over and over and over when confronted with facts or evidence our enable to answer. I wasn’t aware that you or your own ancestors suffered such dignity you refer to but if the whole subject too emotional for you maybe that explains the challenges you face in dealing with logic and evidence.

3)
Morpeth--- Christian influence and let us say 'strongly encouraged' (bought) conversion went on far longer than 18th century. Convent and Christian schools taught all pupils Christian dogma.

The manner in such missionary activity doe in the 18th century quite different than that by the late19th and 20th centuries. If one looks throughout Asia and indeed most of the third world, Parochial schools provided many future leaders* whether converted of not) and brought education to many. Why wouldn’t a convent or other Christian school not teach Christian dogma? Just as a Madrassa would teach Islamic dogma?

You constantly use the words 'Hindu Nationalism' ---approx. 80% of the population is nominally Hindu! Why is that a problem for you? They don't go round the world 'converting' people!



4) You express what seems to be a fanatic Hindu nationalist that can’t deal with logic or evidence, and seems very resentful Muslims or British or anyone for that matter who has the audacity to point out your tourist promotion version of India may be just propaganda.

I haven’t the slightest problem with anyone of faith trying to convert others. If I were Indian I probably wouldn’t like anything that would interfere with my own cultural and religious beliefs so I can understand that.


You keep saying myself or EMR have a problem with Hindus because comments made about extremist views.

5) You say you 'do not know the extent' but will not accept that I might have more knowledge of the extent!!!! I was not describing "Ethnic" communities------In India there are multiple smaller groups/communities related to origins etc. I can't give you names of such communities as it would for Goa give personal info.

You may wish to look up the word ethnic. I have no doubt you might have more knowledge but since you will avoid logic or evidence that may beget questions about your emotional viewpoints it is normal for someone to question your assertions.

6) Not possible to give details of the Indian tax system here-----but essentially local economy and taxation is managed by the States themselves.
That is why some States are wealthier than others (along with environmental differences).

Totally missing the point- because of some degree of local control that doesn’t negate the occupied territories are not sovereign.


1) Yes class/caste system existed as did the class system in the UK. The differences (in brief) in India the risk of disease from those who dealt with excrement and the fact that names indicated 'class origins'.
I don't suppose much 'touching' went on in the UK workhouses!
Certainly the apartheid of the British affected middle and upper classes.

2) Morpeth more emotion seems to exude from your posts in that you have to defend all and every point regarding Britsh rule.
Why would it have affected me? I did not go there until 1968.

3) I refered to ' bought' conversions. The offering of food/goods etc. to the poor if they converted and sent their children to church. This went on until 20th century.
There is still a special entry visa for missionaries.

Why would I resent Muslims? We 'live' with them.

4) What on earth in my posts shows any evidence of "Hindu nationalism"??
Just because I correct your negative views from lack of knowledge about present day India (except any news propaganda you read!
Why Hindu??? When I am not a Hindu?

5) The small groups and communities of a few thousands do not have different ethnicities by my understanding.
I do not consider North Norfolk people to have different ethnicity than South Norfolk.

6) It is not Some degree of control. It is control in most areas. States are not 'sovereign', but they are not "occupied". As I said any one from any State could become PM.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 8:47 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
Yes your views on taxation under the British and the effect on the economy are nonsense , and for which I provided links showing the evidence. evidence showed so.​​​​​

One could be excused for saying considering your emotional and subjective views about India for thinking you have adopted the country as your main home and nationality.

Well you are wrong. My views are of a person who actually has had a home in the country for decades.
Put in a more polite way than I really think, your views from a distance are determindly negative.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 8:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Bipat
1) Yes class/caste system existed as did the class system in the UK. The differences (in brief) in India the risk of disease from those who dealt with excrement and the fact that names indicated 'class origins'.
I don't suppose much 'touching' went on in the UK workhouses!
Certainly the apartheid of the British affected middle and upper classes.

2) Morpeth more emotion seems to exude from your posts in that you have to defend all and every point regarding Britsh rule.
Why would it have affected me? I did not go there until 1968.

3) I refered to ' bought' conversions. The offering of food/goods etc. to the poor if they converted and sent their children to church. This went on until 20th century.
There is still a special entry visa for missionaries.

Why would I resent Muslims? We 'live' with them.

4) What on earth in my posts shows any evidence of "Hindu nationalism"??
Just because I correct your negative views from lack of knowledge about present day India (except any news propaganda you read!
Why Hindu??? When I am not a Hindu?

5) The small groups and communities of a few thousands do not have different ethnicities by my understanding.
I do not consider North Norfolk people to have different ethnicity than South Norfolk.

6) It is not Some degree of control. It is control in most areas. States are not 'sovereign', but they are not "occupied". As I said any one from any State could become PM.
While you use words such as " occupied " which you clearly do not know the meaning of your posts will always be disagreed with..

India has a huge range of different ethnic groups, estimate 2000, ,22 languages ., some times it appears you really do not know much about your adopted homeland...

Last edited by EMR; Mar 7th 2019 at 9:19 pm.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
While you use words such as " occupied " which you clearly do not know the meaning of your posts will always be disagreed with..

India has a huge range of different ethnic groups, estimate 2000, ,22 languages ., some times it appears you really do not know much about your adopted homeland...
I was replying to Morpeth. He was referring to Goa as being occupied by India.

For heavens sake EMR, I know about the different languages and ethnic groups in India.
Again I was replying to Morpeth about Goa an the immediate surrounding areas Konkani coastal areas.-----Same language same communities and families.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 9:43 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
I was replying to Morpeth. He was referring to Goa as being occupied by India.

For heavens sake EMR, I know about the different languages and ethnic groups in India.
Again I was replying to Morpeth about Goa an the immediate surrounding areas Konkani coastal areas.-----Same language same communities and families.
I suggest you go back and read your own posts.
You have referred on many occasions to British India as bring occupied, ruled by the gun and other total nonsense.
Every time you post such nonsense expect to be corrected, to have the facts posted.
Not for your benefit because you are beyond hope but in the unlikely event someone might stumble across this forum hoping to learn something.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 9:45 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
I was replying to Morpeth. He was referring to Goa as being occupied by India.

For heavens sake EMR, I know about the different languages and ethnic groups in India.
Again I was replying to Morpeth about Goa an the immediate surrounding areas Konkani coastal areas.-----Same language same communities and families.
I suggest you go back and read your own posts. " do not have different ethnicities " your words.
You have referred on many occasions to British India as being occupied, ruled by the gun and other total nonsense.
Every time you post such nonsense expect to be corrected, to have the facts posted.
Not for your benefit because you are beyond hope but in the unlikely event someone might stumble across this forum hoping to learn something.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 9:59 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
I suggest you go back and read your own posts. " do not have different ethnicities " your words.
You have referred on many occasions to British India as being occupied, ruled by the gun and other total nonsense.
Every time you post such nonsense expect to be corrected, to have the facts posted.
Not for your benefit because you are beyond hope but in the unlikely event someone might stumble across this forum hoping to learn something.
EMR --I have never said that there were not different ethnicities any one who knows anything knows that!! The above posts are about one specific area-------MY Area!

Regarding "guns"----- we have been through this before. Others have also explained to you. It didn't need many. What were the soldiers there for? What were the barracks for?

If you care to look at other threads, most are about information.
Just yourself and Morpeth put these bizarre posts about a country that you personally know nothing about.

Last edited by Bipat; Mar 7th 2019 at 10:06 pm.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 10:08 pm
  #626  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR --I have never said that there were not different ethnicities any one who knows anything knows that!! The above posts are about one specific area-------MY Area!

Regarding "guns"----- we have been through this before. Others have also explained to you. It didn't need many. What were the soldiers there for?

If you care to look at other threads most are about information.
Just yourself an Morpeth put these bizarre posts about a country that you personally know nothing about.
Clearly you know just as little about its history, etc
India is more , much much more than your small local area, read the titles of these threads.
Nothing bizarre about facts, although you seem to think so..
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 10:44 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Clearly you know just as little about its history, etc
India is more , much much more than your small local area, read the titles of these threads.
Nothing bizarre about facts, although you seem to think so..
EMR---As I have told you before I have stayed with relatives and travelled throughout from absolute south to Pakistan borders. More than half the States over 50 years.

I suggest you read other threads apart from Morpeths.
Your opinions from the other side of the world are not "facts" EMR.
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Old Mar 7th 2019, 10:58 pm
  #628  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR---As I have told you before I have stayed with relatives and travelled throughout from absolute south to Pakistan borders. More than half the States over 50 years.

I suggest you read other threads apart from Morpeths.
Your opinions from the other side of the world are not "facts" EMR.
That's you problem or rather, OCD, anything no matter what the source, no matter how many thousands of sources where it is recorded , anything that contradicts yiur views cannot be a fact. In your mind.
That is why any discussion with you, on just about anything, with who ever it is , goes, on and on and on...

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Old Mar 7th 2019, 11:24 pm
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
That's you problem or rather, OCD, anything no matter what the source, no matter how many thousands of sources where it is recorded , anything that contradicts yiur views cannot be a fact. In your mind.
That is why any discussion with you, on just about anything, with who ever it is , goes, on and on and on...
No EMR, I only disagree generally with you and your twin poster Morpeth, who seem to 'stalk' my posts.
Look at the title of this thread and the other recent threads.







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Old Mar 7th 2019, 11:35 pm
  #630  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
No EMR, I only disagree generally with you and your twin poster Morpeth, who seem to 'stalk' my posts.
Look at the title of this thread and the other recent threads.
You need to find a dictionary and look up the meaning of two words, debate and forum.
Knowing you, you will even disagree with them..
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