India and the Wars

Old Feb 18th 2019, 9:27 pm
  #361  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,118
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
1) Read the referendum results. A Goan politician can become President or PM of the Republic.

2) You are the one talking of Hyderabad could be independent. The recent change making Hyderabad capital of a new State, would seem to indicate that Muslims there are happy to be part of India. At Partition how many went to Pakistan?

In our town we have many Muslim and Christian neighbours. One such is minding my laptop dongle and Jio Wifi as I write this!!! (We are in the UK until end of April). I am not a Hindu.

3) Suggest you look at the Wiki--references and find out.
(What was the Portuguese 'right' to rule part of another continent? What about Daman and Diu ----should they be independent?)
1) Read the referendum results. A Goan politician can become President or PM of the Republic.

It is fascinating your ability to completely avoid a question. I asked simply- did India hold a referendum in Goa whether the population wished to be part of India or independent I have asked this maybe 20 times and you keep referring to a referendum that didn’t ask the question.

2) 2) You are the one talking of Hyderabad could be independent. The recent change making Hyderabad capital of a new State, would seem to indicate that Muslims there are happy to be part of India. At Partition how many went to Pakistan?

Again complete avoidance of the issue being discussed. Did India use force or not to take over Hyderabad? (It did). How many went to Pakistan? (I don’t now and that isn’t the point- and in any case looking at the timing and the geography that could have a bearing. Did India hold a referendum to ask the wishes of the people?

--Simply India has used force to impose its will and avoids consulting the people in territories it takes over as to their wishes. Whether Kashmir or Hyderabad or Goa. No better and no worse than other states whether from Europe or Asia or Africa or Latin America that use force. The fact India avoids referends implies it is afraid to consult the wishes of the people concerned.





3) In our town we have many Muslim and Christian neighbors. One such is minding my laptop dongle and Jio Wifi as I write this!!! (We are in the UK until end of April). I am not a Hindu- It just appears you support extreme Hindu nationalism

4) Suggest you look at the Wiki--references and find out.
(What was the Portuguese 'right' to rule part of another continent? What about Daman and Diu ----should they be independent?)

What gives any nation the right to forcibly take over another territory ? We are just discussing historical facts. The issue of whether justified or not another matter- Hitler had more justification than India to use force to incorporate the German speaking areas of Poland and Czechoslovakia – do we need a world where countries are using force around the world according to their own justifications?
morpeth is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 9:38 pm
  #362  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
No this is a British Forum. So people speak English. Note British----even though they don't think about Ancient Britain when they say it!!

What I am trying to convince you is that in other countries people speak their local language most of the time.
In India the majority of the 1.4 billion (not 2 billion) do not speak English in every day conversation, even though many can understand and speak it. They will speak it to British tourists.

Each State will have newspapers in their own State language.

Times of India is the no.1 sold countrywide ----that is the link I gave you!!!!!!!!

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ Other BE members can see that it is the same newspaper but in English language.
https://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/

(I only posted 2 links) -----Urdu is not commonly spoken throughout India------but people who speak it are aware of the OFFICIAL NAMES of the country (there are TWO OFFICIAL NAMES

EMR you still haven't told us which are the Indian cities you have visited and where the 1000s of people are you questioned about their language.
Official names, what has that got to do with reality, what Indians call their country, how they identify themselves, how the rest of the world sees them..


There are 100s millions who live in parts of modern India that was never part of the ancient Bharat civilisation, Don,t they have the right to call their parts of India by its ancient names.
What connection do they have with Bharat...

Bipat this is the 21st Century not the times we refer to as BC...

I have been in Delhi, Agra, Jodpur, Jaipur, Oudaipur , Kochi., small towns and villages in Rajahstan.
later this year, Delhi, Gwalior, Orcha and Chennai.
I will ask every Indian we meet to tell me the name of their country...
let's have a bet on how many use your name Bharat..


EMR is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 10:05 pm
  #363  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,783
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Official names, what has that got to do with reality, what Indians call their country, how they identify themselves, how the rest of the world sees them..


There are 100s millions who live in parts of modern India that was never part of the ancient Bharat civilisation, Don,t they have the right to call their parts of India by its ancient names.
What connection do they have with Bharat...

Bipat this is the 21st Century not the times we refer to as BC...

I have been in Delhi, Agra, Jodpur, Jaipur, Oudaipur , Kochi., small towns and villages in Rajahstan.
later this year, Delhi, Gwalior, Orcha and Chennai.
I will ask every Indian we meet to tell me the name of their country...
let's have a bet on how many use your name Bharat..

EMR the official name of a country, its official languages and official State languages ARE A REALITY. It is not MY name!!!

Just because they are not used in everyday conversation and you don't use them doesn't mean they don't exist!!!!!

Bharat is the Hindi word for India. It has nothing to do nowadays with ancient civilisations.
Do you think of yourself as an 'Ancient Britain'?

People call themselves ALSO by their State names-----Bengali/Tamil/Goan etc.

EMR---- just think! --the people you speak to on your tour will answer you in English!!!!! I think they have that much sense to know where you come from. Of course they will say "India"!!!!

(They might wonder why you don't know where you are though, but will be too polite to mention it.)


(In Chennai you won't hear Hindi though, the Southern States object to not having an official national southern language.)

Bipat is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 10:15 pm
  #364  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,118
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Bharat an empire that existed nearlyc2000years ago.and vanished into the mists of time.
Little if anything to do with the modern state of India.
I am visiting sites from that time, it's the tourist industry, nothing more.
Anyone who doubts your abi,ity to deal with facts and recorded history just has to read a couple of your posts..
EMR, this is an interesting discussion. I cant comment on the Hind word for India. Bipat often argues a sort of PC fantasy that everyone basically the same and culture relates only to things like food or outward material things or on occasion she seems to hold a racist view that it relates to skin color- often she has mentioned that foreign rule was unfair if rulers were another skin color and didn't inter-marry. Yet now she is relating a centuries long cultural tradition in India as somehow in a rather bizarre mean that Goa was by definition part of a modern India state that didn't exist previously.

Certainly in India history has shown that culture matters, and the importance of religion in defining a culture and self-identity- and that regardless of an overall Indian culture, the deep divide between Hindus and Muslims can be shown in periodic outbreaks let alone the partition.Expressions of extreme Hindu nationalism ( which sometimes Bipat seems to subscribe too such as her comment about Muslims just leaving similar to her comment about the Portuguese) often concern observers though as Bipat portrays it there is perfect harmony. I guess it would be interesting at what point does Bipat consider the Mughals and their converts to have become Indian, or were they never Indian because they were not Hindu ? Or how are laws to protect the untouchables part of Indian cultural tradition ? Are Pakistanis also heirs to Indian culture and history or does Bipat consider them not to be of the Indian culture- of they should just leave as she says if they are unhappy with Hindu dominance.

I dont believe that thousands of years of history, language development. religious beliefs, climate and geography just vanish overnight. I also think Bipat choosing which historical period is relevant and which is not is a it odd. The British rule, much less than the time for the Mughals is significant but the Mughals not.

I have often believed that Jinnah had a huge part of the blame for the partition yet reading Bipat's comments make me wonder whether his approach was in essence a long-term self-defense against Hindu nationalism. But there is enough blame to go around.

I agree Bipat a bit confused about facts but to her credit she is truly to fit into her new homeland and adopt the local ideology to integrate. Something people often critisize some immigrants groups in the UK and elsewhere of not doing.I am sure it makes many Indians feel good to not take responsibility for their own decisions and actions and try to blame the British- and there are enough British who seem to lap up such nonsense.
morpeth is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 10:15 pm
  #365  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR the official name of a country, its official languages and official State languages ARE A REALITY. It is not MY name!!!

Just because they are not used in everyday conversation and you don't use them doesn't mean they don't exist!!!!!

Bharat is the Hindi word for India. It has nothing to do nowadays with ancient civilisations.
Do you think of yourself as an 'Ancient Britain'?

People call themselves ALSO by their State names-----Bengali/Tamil/Goan etc.

EMR---- just think! --the people you speak to on your tour will answer you in English!!!!! I think they have that much sense to know where you come from. Of course they will say "India"!!!!

(They might wonder why you don't know where you are though, but will be too polite to mention it.)


(In Chennai you won't hear Hindi though, the Southern States object to not having an official national southern language.)
Unlike you I do some research.
You can find views from nationalists who want to drop India as the nation's official name.
You can find evidence that Bharat is a devisive term..
Apparently Gandhi wanted to drop India from the title of Congress and replace it with Bharat.
He was told in no uncertain terms that this would be devisive and lose the party support from non Hindus, non hindi speakers . During the critical pre Independence period....
There is good reason why India has two official nanes and why one is not used globally and only by a minority of the population..



EMR is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 10:50 pm
  #366  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,783
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Unlike you I do some research.
You can find views from nationalists who want to drop India as the nation's official name.
You can find evidence that Bharat is a devisive term..
Apparently Gandhi wanted to drop India from the title of Congress and replace it with Bharat.
He was told in no uncertain terms that this would be devisive and lose the party support from non Hindus, non hindi speakers . During the critical pre Independence period....
There is good reason why India has two official nanes and why one is not used globally and only by a minority of the population..
EMR-----you don't need to do research about every-day life!!!! You are the one complaining about going over the 'past'.

(You mention Congress they pride themselves on being secular ----they have been in power most of the time!!)

As I said EMR-----day to day people do not give any thought to what is "official"!
(Although as I have told you Bharat is commonly used as a name for businesses etc. and a first name for people ----although not common for the new born now ----there are fashions in names as elsewhere in the world.)

The majority of the Globe do not speak Hindi.----- and many other countries languages either. You are an expat in Portuguesa in the UK it is known as Portugal.

EMR ---Hindus speak day to day whatever is their local State language
----they are not all Hindi speakers!!!!-

You speak about research ----before I read your post it had occurred to me to look in my OCI passport-------It is in both English and Hindi and of course the B word is there!!!!!


Bipat is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 10:58 pm
  #367  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR-----you don't need to do research about every-day life!!!! You are the one complaining about going over the 'past'.

(You mention Congress they pride themselves on being secular ----they have been in power most of the time!!)

As I said EMR-----day to day people do not give any thought to what is "official"!
(Although as I have told you Bharat is commonly used as a name for businesses etc. and a first name for people ----although not common for the new born now ----there are fashions in names as elsewhere in the world.)

The majority of the Globe do not speak Hindi.----- and many other countries languages either. You are an expat in Portuguesa in the UK it is known as Portugal.

EMR ---Hindus speak day to day whatever is their local State language
----they are not all Hindi speakers!!!!-

You speak about research ----before I read your post it had occurred to me to look in my OCI passport-------It is in both English and Hindi and of course the B word is there!!!!!
You are rambling again Bipat.
Portugal has one language not 100s, the vast majority, 1 religion, 1 ethnicity..
As the founding fathers of India thought the term Bharat was devisive if chosen as the one name of the Independent nation then you will understand why I
defer to them and not you,..
Nations have changed,there names to reflect nationalistic views of the governing ethnic majority.
Sri Lanka, ( civil war followed ) Myanmar , look at the state of that sad nation.
Nationalism based on a historical context can bring result in ethnic and religious context.
As I posted, the founding fathers knew what they were doing.

Last edited by EMR; Feb 18th 2019 at 11:01 pm.
EMR is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 11:32 pm
  #368  
BE Enthusiast
 
prestonjohn's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: London.
Posts: 941
prestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond reputeprestonjohn has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

The founding fathers or founders of India ! Lets get some facts into perspective regarding India's past and where did its peoples spring from.Firstly the term Aryans and it being associated with pure bred or of one source has been undermined by DNA testing on bones dug up on archaeological digs.This is nothing new the Japanese were in for shock when DNA indicated that they were of Korean origin.But India has a strange place in the history of human migration. Roughly 75,000 years ago Mount Toba erupted in Indonesia and virtually wiped out the population of India, who were tribals and very vulnerable to climate change.It covered India in a carpet of volcanic dust and temperatures dropped by 7 to 10 c degrees.Then roughly 5,000 years ago The Harappans appeared on the scene with, strangely, a fully developed sense of urban city planning. sewers and grain silos, streets and a knowledge of metallurgy.Where did the Harappans arrive from ? That's one of the great mysteries of history.If any one can claim to be the founders of India it is The Harappans.
prestonjohn is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 11:32 pm
  #369  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,783
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by morpeth
EMR, this is an interesting discussion. I cant comment on the Hind word for India. Bipat often argues a sort of PC fantasy that everyone basically the same and culture relates only to things like food or outward material things or on occasion she seems to hold a racist view that it relates to skin color- often she has mentioned that foreign rule was unfair if rulers were another skin color and didn't inter-marry.
1) Yet now she is relating a centuries long cultural tradition in India as somehow in a rather bizarre mean that Goa was by definition part of a modern India state that didn't exist previously.

Certainly in India history has shown that culture matters, and the importance of religion in defining a culture and self-identity- and that regardless of an overall Indian culture, the deep divide between Hindus and Muslims can be shown in periodic outbreaks let alone the partition.Expressions of extreme Hindu nationalism ( which sometimes Bipat seems to subscribe too such as her comment about Muslims just leaving similar to her comment about the Portuguese) often concern observers though as

2) Bipat portrays it there is perfect harmony. I guess it would be interesting at what point does Bipat consider the Mughals and their converts to have become Indian, or were they never Indian because they were not Hindu ?

3) Or how are laws to protect the untouchables part of Indian cultural tradition ?

4)Are Pakistanis also heirs to Indian culture and history or does Bipat consider them not to be of the Indian culture- of they should just leave as she says if they are unhappy with Hindu dominance.

I dont believe that thousands of years of history, language development. religious beliefs, climate and geography just vanish overnight. I also think Bipat choosing which historical period is relevant and which is not is a it odd.
5)The British rule, much less than the time for the Mughals is significant but the Mughals not.

I have often believed that Jinnah had a huge part of the blame for the partition yet reading Bipat's comments make me wonder whether his approach was in essence a long-term self-defense against Hindu nationalism. But there is enough blame to go around.

5) I agree Bipat a bit confused about facts but to her credit she is truly to fit into her new homeland and adopt the local ideology to integrate. Something people often critisize some immigrants groups in the UK and elsewhere of not doing.I am sure it makes many Indians feel good to not take responsibility for their own decisions and actions and try to blame the British- and there are enough British who seem to lap up such nonsense.
1) Morpeth -----have you ever been to Goa and the surrounding districts?----the same people with the same language, traditions etc in the surrounding States. . Look at a map and the porous borders do you not think that during Portuguese rule they moved in and out.

The Christian (descendants of the forcibly converted) have taken on aspects of Portuguese ---food/art/ music/building etc. As I told you this also spread over the borders.
There was hardly any 'mixing' by the Portuguese. The Goans were not Portuguese.

2) I have never said there was "perfect harmony"-----that is obvious!! Also between groups of the same religion have not PERFECT harmony;
I told you in our town Sunni and Shia live in separate areas. However day to day MOST people get on together.
(We think oh no!---we can't go to XYZ place including airport on a Friday!!! Our taxi driver (and friend!) is Muslim and Friday prayers at varying times means he is always late!)

3) Untouchables -----because that class of workers cleaned toilets ----if they were touched disease might pass, no anti-biotics in those days. It wasn't right to think like this---
It wasn't 'right' in the UK to hang poor children for theft/or transport them to another country!------Times change.

4) Of course Pakistani people have a background of Indian history-----You should see the buses at the Wagah border--- the last bus of the day --and people waving to each other both sides. The ceremony of closing the border gates can be very 'moving -' as well as a 'spectacle'.

I stated that the people of Hyderabad could go to Pakistan if they wished as someone had indicated that they were more-or-less 'trapped' there. From brief personal experience Muslims are quite happy there.

Hindu "dominance" approx. 80% of the population are nominally Hindu-----what do you want them to do??? Convert to a different religion??? Which would you prefer???
Why this constant negativity from you and EMR about the entire population of Hindus???-----(they are not identical clones!!!)

4) British rule is discussed as it was most recent lasting until 20th century and we are British---This is a British Expat Forum.

5) How much more condescending can you get Morpeth???? It is not my "new homeland" I am British, we divide our time between TWO homes.

What local ideology?????? Chucking your garbage on the paths? Driving your rickshaw straight at the elderly crossing the road? Digging up the road and not putting lights?
Ruining the beauty of the area with yet more high rise flats, freeways etc. etc.

I am sure PJ---- above will think of plenty more!!!!!

Last edited by Bipat; Feb 18th 2019 at 11:37 pm. Reason: Addition
Bipat is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 11:46 pm
  #370  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
1) Morpeth -----have you ever been to Goa and the surrounding districts?----the same people with the same language, traditions etc in the surrounding States. . Look at a map and the porous borders do you not think that during Portuguese rule they moved in and out.

The Christian (descendants of the forcibly converted) have taken on aspects of Portuguese ---food/art/ music/building etc. As I told you this also spread over the borders.
There was hardly any 'mixing' by the Portuguese. The Goans were not Portuguese.

2) I have never said there was "perfect harmony"-----that is obvious!! Also between groups of the same religion have not PERFECT harmony;
I told you in our town Sunni and Shia live in separate areas. However day to day MOST people get on together.
(We think oh no!---we can't go to XYZ place including airport on a Friday!!! Our taxi driver (and friend!) is Muslim and Friday prayers at varying times means he is always late!)

3) Untouchables -----because that class of workers cleaned toilets ----if they were touched disease might pass, no anti-biotics in those days. It wasn't right to think like this---
It wasn't 'right' in the UK to hang poor children for theft/or transport them to another country!------Times change.

4) Of course Pakistani people have a background of Indian history-----You should see the buses at the Wagah border--- the last bus of the day --and people waving to each other both sides. The ceremony of closing the border gates can be very 'moving -' as well as a 'spectacle'.

I stated that the people of Hyderabad could go to Pakistan if they wished as someone had indicated that they were more-or-less 'trapped' there. From brief personal experience Muslims are quite happy there.

Hindu "dominance" approx. 80% of the population are nominally Hindu-----what do you want them to do??? Convert to a different religion??? Which would you prefer???
Why this constant negativity from you and EMR about the entire population of Hindus???-----(they are not identical clones!!!)

4) British rule is discussed as it was most recent lasting until 20th century and we are British---This is a British Expat Forum.

5) How much more condescending can you get Morpeth???? It is not my "new homeland" I am British, we divide our time between TWO homes.

What local ideology?????? Chucking your garbage on the paths? Driving your rickshaw straight at the elderly crossing the road? Digging up the road and not putting lights?
Ruining the beauty of the area with yet more high rise flats, freeways etc. etc.
Bipat untouchables still exist, we saw that, those who clean up the rubbish, those who eat pork , not eaten by Muslims or higher caste Hindus because pigs feed on rubbish..
Caste was explained to us as being based on profession,, ( by a high caste ,guide ) the subject of untouchables and the nomadic groups their status and prejudice against them was brushed over.
.
Once again you make your atitude to Muslims clear.
Tens of millions of Muslims are not a foreign race that should move to a foreign country if they do not like India but ethnically descended from those who lived on the sub continent for 1000s years..
Islam arrived in India in over 1300 years ago , , centuries before the arrivals of other ethnic groups who followed Islam..
They are ethnically no different than Hindu nationalists. Just a different religion..
They have as much in common with those descended from the Moghuls, who arrived in the 15th century those who live in Pakistan as do you..

Last edited by EMR; Feb 18th 2019 at 11:53 pm.
EMR is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2019, 11:57 pm
  #371  
Concierge
 
spouse of scouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,247
spouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

I only pop in here now and then, but the word 'untouchables' caught my eye - I think (but am not positive!) that the term is Dalit people?
spouse of scouse is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2019, 12:11 am
  #372  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,783
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by EMR
Bipat untouchables still exist, we saw that, those who clean up the rubbish, those who eat pork , not eaten by Muslims or higher caste Hindus because pigs feed on rubbish..
Caste was explained to us as being based on profession,, ( by a high caste ,guide ) the subject of untouchables and the nomadic groups their status and prejudice against them was brushed over.
.
Once again you make your atitude to Muslims clear.
Tens of millions of Muslims are not a foreign race that should move to a foreign country if they do not like India but ethnically descended from those who lived on the sub continent for 1000s years..
Islam arrived in India in over 1300 years ago , , centuries before the arrivals of other ethnic groups who followed Islam..
They are ethnically no different than Hindu nationalists. Just a different religion..
They have as much in common with those descended from the Moghuls, who arrived in the 15th century those who live in Pakistan as do you..

Yes caste/class distinctions still exist because names indicate job origins. Yes there is still SOME prejudice in SOME areas by SOME people. It is illegal to discriminate.

(If you had ever seen a Goan pig toilet you wouldn't want to eat pork in any restaurant near by!! Do you know what they eat???)

EMR your remarks about Muslims are bizarre-----on the one hand you say they have a 'right' to live a Muslim majority State, then you say my remark that they are happy in Hyderabad otherwise they could go to a Muslim majority State you take as being anti-Muslim????? Think about what you say.

I have pointed out to you that we mix every day with Muslims/Christians/Hindus when in India----as neighbours/ friends/ shopkeepers/officials etc.etc. They also drive the rickshaws/buses/aircraft we sit in!
Bipat is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2019, 12:13 am
  #373  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,783
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
I only pop in here now and then, but the word 'untouchables' caught my eye - I think (but am not positive!) that the term is Dalit people?
Yes you are right.
Bipat is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2019, 12:16 am
  #374  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
Yes caste/class distinctions still exist because names indicate job origins. Yes there is still SOME prejudice in SOME areas by SOME people. It is illegal to discriminate.

(If you had ever seen a Goan pig toilet you wouldn't want to eat pork in any restaurant near by!! Do you know what they eat???)

EMR your remarks about Muslims are bizarre-----on the one hand you say they have a 'right' to live a Muslim majority State, then you say my remark that they are happy in Hyderabad otherwise they could go to a Muslim majority State you take as being anti-Muslim????? Think about what you say.

I have pointed out to you that we mix every day with Muslims/Christians/Hindus when in India----as neighbours/ friends/ shopkeepers/officials etc.etc. They also drive the rickshaws/buses/aircraft we sit in!
Read your own posts, you stated that if Muslims were not happy they could go to Pakistan
That is prejudice against people who are Indian, descended from those who lived in the times of Bharat, just a different religion.
It is you who regard Muslims as being different, when they are as Indian as any other inhabitant of that nation.
Why do you say you mix with Muslims, Christians Tec why not say you mix with all those around you instead of defining them as being different ..
EMR is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2019, 12:18 am
  #375  
Concierge
 
spouse of scouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,247
spouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: India and the Wars

Originally Posted by Bipat
Yes you are right.
I got the best hug I've ever had from a lovely woman who described herself as Dalit, and a blessing as well. Out of all the people I met in India, and I met lots of very nice people, she made the most impression on me.

That is, I assume the 'index finger pointed upwards' was a blessing, I asked someone about it and they told me it was this (although I pinched this description from the Smithsonian website because it explains it better):
Known as Tarjani Mudra. Indicates anger, but do not fear. Raised by a guardian spirit at a temple doorway, or in the iconography of a terrifying goddess like Durga or Kali, the finger is meant to point away from you and vanquish what would harm you.

Last edited by spouse of scouse; Feb 19th 2019 at 12:27 am.
spouse of scouse is offline  

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.