India and the Wars

Old Feb 7th 2019, 12:15 am
  #226  
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[QUOTE=Bipat;12633729]
Originally Posted by EMR

Yes I remember now the places you visited.
The floods in Kerala were the worst they had had for decades.

For heavens sake EMR ----I have seen such things multiple times!!!!! You are really being silly to think otherwise.

Other areas have different years of particular heavy rain and flooding.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rains-in-years

In November/December 2018 I was in Karnataka, Goa and Mumbai.
You probably are unaware that floods start in the south and as the monsoon moves north, more northern areas are affected.
It will start for us on June7th.
Is that an apology ?
I am fully aware of the monsoons, it was part of my #conomic geography exam..
When deciding where to go on our travels we study the local weather.
Unlike you I try to inform myself, research, facts, recorded history, do not enter any discussion with blinkers on..
When your monsoon starts has got nothing to do with the issues caused by weather in other parts of India.
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 12:40 am
  #227  
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[QUOTE=EMR;12633734]
Originally Posted by Bipat

Is that an apology ?
I am fully aware of the monsoons, it was part of my #conomic geography exam..
When deciding where to go on our travels we study the local weather.
Unlike you I try to inform myself, research, facts, recorded history, do not enter any discussion with blinkers on..
When your monsoon starts has got nothing to do with the issues caused by weather in other parts of India.
Apology for what?? You have said enough times where you went on holiday!!!

Part of your Geography exam!!!!!!! It is part of Indian life!!! It is part of where I have a home!!! Where most of the people I know were born and live.

I put a link about floods in other areas------did you read it????
There are floods in our area also, two years ago the house struck by lightening during one. There is no electricity for days during a heavy monsoon. There were fisherman drowned but not nearly as devastating as those in Kerala obviously or in Mumbai and the North. -----

I will give you a tip-----if during your next tour you walk in a flooded area with "blinkers on", you might fall down a manhole-----the water lifts the lids off so take care.


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Old Feb 7th 2019, 12:52 am
  #228  
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[QUOTE=Bipat;12633750]
Originally Posted by EMR

Apology for what?? You have said enough times where you went on holiday!!!

Part of your Geography exam!!!!!!! It is part of Indian life!!! It is part of where I have a home!!! Where most of the people I know were born and live.

I put a link about floods in other areas------did you read it????
There are floods in our area also, two years ago the house struck by lightening during one. There is no electricity for days during a heavy monsoon. There were fisherman drowned but not nearly as devastating as those in Kerala obviously or in Mumbai and the North. -----

I will give you a tip-----if during your next tour you walk in a flooded area with "blinkers on", you might fall down a manhole-----the water lifts the lids off so take care.
.
You really do get silly when losing the point of any discussion.
I could put a link to the fires in California , drought and floods in Australia which some climatologists believe are linked to climatic change as are the changing pattern and severity of monsoons.
But that would have nothing to do with your posts which disparage first hand experience of anyone but yourself.
Not next visiting an area likely to be flooded , the continuing drought could remain an issue in MP.
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 1:49 am
  #229  
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[QUOTE=Bipat;12633705]
Originally Posted by morpeth

You call a foreign occupier "the victim"?????

I can't give you income figures----the majority were just poor villagers, self sufficient, or small farmers. We were 'next door'.
You say someone is at fault because they disagreed , so hen fine with being subject to force. Woudl be scary to have you as a neighbr.

If you look at most of history and most countries oday there are foreign occupiers all over. just life

I was just curious because you mentioned poverty in Goa- I wasnt aware it was any worse or better than neighboring territories, unless you just added for no reason.ut i have vague impression Goa was just a sleepy backwater then and portuguese not too dynamc. and in general portuguese did fight leaving most of their colonies.
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 1:59 am
  #230  
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[QUOTE=morpeth;12633775]
Originally Posted by Bipat

You say someone is at fault because they disagreed , so hen fine with being subject to force. Woudl be scary to have you as a neighbr.

If you look at most of history and most countries oday there are foreign occupiers all over. just life

I was just curious because you mentioned poverty in Goa- I wasnt aware it was any worse or better than neighboring territories, unless you just added for no reason.ut i have vague impression Goa was just a sleepy backwater then and portuguese not too dynamc. and in general portuguese did fight leaving most of their colonies.
It was the result of the carnations revolution and the change from a right wing post Salazar government to a socialist one that ended Portugals overseas empire.
Portugals colonial wars were their Vietnam .
Tens thousands of Portuguese settlers returned from their colonies and are to be found in almost every town and city.
There are large numbers of South African Portuguese who also moved from the colonies.to S.A..
Portugal gave up its African colonies as It would have done Goa...
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 2:46 am
  #231  
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[QUOTE=morpeth;12633775]
Originally Posted by Bipat

You say someone is at fault because they disagreed , so hen fine with being subject to force. Woudl be scary to have you as a neighbr.

If you look at most of history and most countries oday there are foreign occupiers all over. just life

I was just curious because you mentioned poverty in Goa- I wasnt aware it was any worse or better than neighboring territories, unless you just added for no reason.ut i have vague impression Goa was just a sleepy backwater then and portuguese not too dynamc. and in general portuguese did fight leaving most of their colonies.
Your post doesn't make sense. Portugal was not a 'neighbour', the Goans were neighbours, they were not subject to force!!

If Salazar had had any sense he would have left as other colonial 'masters' did including the British and French.
Relationship between India and Portugal improved after 1974.

"Sleepy backwater" (the local joke by many is that Goans don't get out of bed until lunchtime --because of the alcohol)!!

In reality it was an area of villages, basic amenities and the notorious pig-toilets. Wooded areas, beggars in the town areas--the beaches now famous just empty.
The Portuguese carried out their own international trade from there, spices etc. Certainly many beautiful churches were built and in the main towns beautiful big houses for the Portuguese officials who came there. (Some of these old houses are museums now, many are derelict as the owners did not maintain them.) Their music and art was acquired by the Goan Hindu hierarchy who worked for the Portuguese.
It is difficult to explain unless you travelled through Goa and over the border to the south and saw the difference south.
The truth is, if the Portuguese Government had not resisted 'letting go', more Portuguese could have 'stayed on'.

Goa is a beautiful place the irony is that now its success is spoiling it -----tower blocks around Panjim etc. which are second homes empty much of the year.
(And you would like foreigners to be allowed to buy!!!!!)
Industrial areas of the interior polluting the air and rivers---the mining scams----north Goa uncontrolled tourism----Russian criminals/prostitution.
The south is still beautiful, along with the beaches--- there are cashew, coconut wooded areas etc. but more and more farmers selling their land---for building------
You can tell I am 'home sick'-----Goa is part of our lives in India!! Just 45 min drive to the border. (It has always been part of OHs life since childhood).

[Something has happened to the quotes from posts, but I think from the 'tone' of the posts it is obvious who posted what ---it started as always with an EMR post-----way back post 193]

Last edited by Bipat; Feb 7th 2019 at 3:00 am.
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 4:04 am
  #232  
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[QUOTE=Bipat;12633808]
Originally Posted by morpeth

Your post doesn't make sense. Portugal was not a 'neighbour', the Goans were neighbours, they were not subject to force!!

If Salazar had had any sense he would have left as other colonial 'masters' did including the British and French.
Relationship between India and Portugal improved after 1974.

"Sleepy backwater" (the local joke by many is that Goans don't get out of bed until lunchtime --because of the alcohol)!!

In reality it was an area of villages, basic amenities and the notorious pig-toilets. Wooded areas, beggars in the town areas--the beaches now famous just empty.
The Portuguese carried out their own international trade from there, spices etc. Certainly many beautiful churches were built and in the main towns beautiful big houses for the Portuguese officials who came there. (Some of these old houses are museums now, many are derelict as the owners did not maintain them.) Their music and art was acquired by the Goan Hindu hierarchy who worked for the Portuguese.
It is difficult to explain unless you travelled through Goa and over the border to the south and saw the difference south.
The truth is, if the Portuguese Government had not resisted 'letting go', more Portuguese could have 'stayed on'.

Goa is a beautiful place the irony is that now its success is spoiling it -----tower blocks around Panjim etc. which are second homes empty much of the year.
(And you would like foreigners to be allowed to buy!!!!!)
Industrial areas of the interior polluting the air and rivers---the mining scams----north Goa uncontrolled tourism----Russian criminals/prostitution.
The south is still beautiful, along with the beaches--- there are cashew, coconut wooded areas etc. but more and more farmers selling their land---for building------
You can tell I am 'home sick'-----Goa is part of our lives in India!! Just 45 min drive to the border. (It has always been part of OHs life since childhood).

[Something has happened to the quotes from posts, but I think from the 'tone' of the posts it is obvious who posted what ---it started as always with an EMR post-----way back post 193]
You have your silly head on again Bipat.

Not selling the place are you., I read an article written by an Indian resident of Goa, your views are mild compares to his.
Better to go south to Kerala where the government rather than fill its pockets, did not open its doors to unrestricted tourist developments, hippies, druggies, the Russian mafia, cheap all Inclusives for those who never leave their hotels..
Goa has prostituted itself to the tourist ruppee and is paying the price.
That's why we did not want to go there.

Last edited by EMR; Feb 7th 2019 at 4:43 am.
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 4:55 am
  #233  
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[QUOTE=EMR;12633837]
Originally Posted by Bipat

You have your silly head on again Bipat.

Not selling the place are you.
Better to go south to Kerala where the government rather than fill its pockets, did not open its doors to unrestricted tourist developments, hippies, druggies, the Russian mafia, cheap all Inclusives for those who never leave their hotels..
Goa has prostituted itself to the tourist ruppee and is paying the price.
That's why we did not want to go there.
EMR why are you always so unpleasant and rude.

You have never been to Goa-----Part of the north Goan coastal area is as you say, certainly don't go there. Far north is still OK

Look at a map------the majority of Goa is not coastal, tourism is only in the coastal areas.

As I said above the south is still beautiful----we enjoy driving there for an evening meal.

We don't 'GO' there as you say ---we live (inherited house) 12 miles south, so its towns are the nearest larger towns, we have to drive through to get to banks, the airport etc.
Relatives don't live near the coast.

As I said in previous post over the years Kerala as place for a coastal visit has deteriorated. Certainly you are right, Cochin, Kathakali dance so much to appreciate.

EMR are you serious? ---you must know that Kerala has been communist ruled, surely you know about the Russian charter flights to there!!!!

Russia to strengthen ties with Kerala to promote tourism | Tourism News Live



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Old Feb 7th 2019, 5:08 am
  #234  
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[QUOTE=Bipat;12633861]
Originally Posted by EMR

EMR why are you always so unpleasant and rude.

You have never been to Goa-----Part of the north Goan coastal area is as you say, certainly don't go there. Far north is still OK

Look at a map------the majority of Goa is not coastal, tourism is only in the coastal areas.

As I said above the south is still beautiful----we enjoy driving there for an evening meal.

We don't 'GO' there as you say ---we live (inherited house) 12 miles south, so its towns are the nearest larger towns, we have to drive through to get to banks, the airport etc.
Relatives don't live near the coast.

As I said in previous post over the years Kerala as place for a coastal visit has deteriorated. Certainly you are right, Cochin, Kathakali dance so much to appreciate.

EMR are you serious? ---you must know that Kerala has been communist ruled, surely you know about the Russian charter flights to there!!!!

Russia to strengthen ties with Kerala to promote tourism | Tourism News Live
You post your concerns, I post that they are also concerned by the actual residents of Goa, I was agreeing with you..
Once again you appear not to comprehend your own posts.
That Kerala is not Goa is why we chose it, far more select , upper class, less developed did not come across any Russians, did not see any charters on the departure boards at the airports...
The human poo on the beach not very nice, just have to watch where you step, little different from the cow poo that is part of other areas we visited in India.
Better ruled by an " elected " communist party than one that appeals to religious fanatics..

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Old Feb 7th 2019, 5:45 am
  #235  
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[QUOTE=EMR;12633870]
Originally Posted by Bipat

You post your concerns, I post that they are also concerned by the actual residents of Goa, I was agreeing with you..
Once again you appear not to comprehend your own posts.
That Kerala is not Goa is why we chose it, far more select , upper class, less developed did not come across any Russians, did not see any charters on the departure boards at the airports...
The human poo on the beach not very nice, just have to watch where you step, little different from the cow poo that is part of other areas we visited in India.
Better ruled by an " elected " communist party than one that appeals to religious fanatics..
So you start your post with the words. "You have your silly head on again Bipat"!!

As we know so many Goan residents we do know their views and also regularly read OHeraldo newspaper. I pointed out to you South coast is quite different from the north.
The Russian tourists there are families with children. If you do ever go, Benaulim is nice.

I have not seen human poo on any Southern Goan beach.
Yes the north coast is best avoided also Panjim, Margao--- traffic a pain.

All State governments are elected!!

Last edited by Bipat; Feb 7th 2019 at 5:49 am.
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 6:28 am
  #236  
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[QUOTE=Bipat;12633882]
Originally Posted by EMR

So you start your post with the words. "You have your silly head on again Bipat"!!

As we know so many Goan residents we do know their views and also regularly read OHeraldo newspaper. I pointed out to you South coast is quite different from the north.
The Russian tourists there are families with children. If you do ever go, Benaulim is nice.

I have not seen human poo on any Southern Goan beach.
Yes the north coast is best avoided also Panjim, Margao--- traffic a pain.

All State governments are elected!!
Hardly a communist government, you could not see a society or economy more dedicated to private enterprise than in Kerala..
Anti establishment, anti religious parties, anti rule from Delhi , anti rule by northerners ,might be a better description ..
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 7:41 am
  #237  
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_in_Kerala

EMR likes to see "Reds under the Beds" Here they are. Hopefully he will now stay in Essex or whatever Home coungties Helklhole he inhabits !
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 7:48 am
  #238  
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Originally Posted by scot47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_in_Kerala

EMR likes to see "Reds under the Beds" Here they are. Hopefully he will now stay in Essex or whatever Home coungties Helklhole he inhabits !

You obviously have no idea what a communist run state would look like, you could not get any further away from that than Kerala.
What have N Korea and Putin's Russia got in common with Kerala , absolutely nothing..
In Kerala the secular form of state governance obviously conflicts with the Hindu dominated BJP..central government..

Last edited by EMR; Feb 7th 2019 at 7:58 am.
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 6:32 pm
  #239  
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Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR----you know absolutely nothing first hand about India. How do you know what the Goans wanted? Do you have Goan relatives, do you have a Goan descendant spouse? do you live 12 miles south of Goa?
Do you know about the North South divide of India. All South Indians complain about Delhi!! Do you know about the fuss when Hindi was made a national language?

However they are all Indians, do you really believe Goans would want to go back to the poverty of Portuguese rule. Do you actually know about the history-'-the torture, forced conversions etc. They now 'rule' themselves with also membership of the Government--they are 'in' Delhi!!!!!

Why does anyone move to the UK? You could ask why did they not move to Portugal?

Why is it insulting to point out that you are a Remainer. You must admit Empire 2 is a constant remark!
I have to ask again. is their any evidence that Goa prior to the Indian occupation was appreciably poorer than nearby areas ?​​​​​​
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Old Feb 7th 2019, 6:48 pm
  #240  
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Originally Posted by morpeth
I have to ask again. is their any evidence that Goa prior to the Indian occupation was appreciably poorer than nearby areas ?​​​​​​
The evidence of the eyes of the people who travelled through both. In later years travel to their temples was allowed there were buses-----also travel across to Mumbai using their train system until later stopped. It could connect to the British trains.
The evidence of my eyes in late 1960s.
Obviously none of this will satisfy yourself.

(It depends what you mean by poorer-----the Portuguese officers there were very wealthy ---massive beautiful houses in main towns -----these you can still see for yourself, now derelict and falling down--a few are museums. I was referring above to Goans.

(Some elite Hindu Goans (they were treated better in later decades ) also were employed and lived well but obviously a small minority. They absorbed Portuguese music and art. This spread to some extent- across borders---our house is built in Portuguese style ---three different level roofs etc. Since independence this has extended giving Goa its individual culture of music, literature etc.)


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