India and the Wars

Old Feb 6th 2019, 10:37 pm
  #211  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=Bipat;12633692]
Originally Posted by EMR

EMR can you read?---I know because I was IN GOA in the 1960s and in many other States in India. OH was visiting there continuously since a toddler.
I was there a month ago with relatives who never left!!!!

EMR I have/had contacts in more than half the States of India----
as an aside----(OH actually saw Nehru at close range ----one of his police protectors was a relative who let the young OH in to a speech occasion).

As you have confirmed Salazar was a dictator, he could have peacefully left Goa and saved the deaths of his own people.
Can you not accept EMR that people who live in India know more about their home land than you living in the UK!!!
Amazing you blame the victim for not just leaving. Scary approch to internatonal relatons.

You mentioned poverty in Goa, are you saying in the 1950's per capita income was less in Goa than next door ?




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Old Feb 6th 2019, 10:42 pm
  #212  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=Bipat;12633686]
Originally Posted by EMR

The events in Goa did not just happen 100 years ago, they were still going on in 1960----it was still a colony of a power thousands of miles away, its people had NO freedom or self government.-----You seem to agree with this! No Goans were attacked by the Indian army.
As I ask yet again WERE YOU THERE?


So you are saying the minorities of Kashmir didn't matter?
It has always been administered by Muslims. Pakistan is at the border of India it is there regardless of the happenings in Kashmir, do you think China would allow an independent nation there? Pakistan already has half of Kashmir.

Why is there a good relationship between Bangladesh/Nepal and India if your border views are correct?

Whatever the arrangements of Nehru with the Kashmiri Muslim leader (and Nehru took the issue to the UN!) the situation now is what is important.

The army would not be there if there were no Pakistan incursions, bombing and terrorism.
The Indian army has committed offences---but much you have read is propaganda from elsewhere.

EMR tell us why the last Pakistan PM was making progress with discussions with Modi---came to Modi's swearing in, and then what happened???? the inevitable.
Now there is puppet PM, with the army in charge.

Wait until the upcoming election.
When it suits you you refer to greater importance of 1960 or 1947, but then you bring up book burnings from centuries ago.

I dont know to what degree the Indian army has committed atrocities but they have been widely reported.

In would be interesting if you would ever consider India in the wrong for force used. Hyderabad, Sikhim, Goa, and covert acivities throughout the subcontinent. India's activities in East Pakistan. I am sure if India invaded Bangla Desh tomorrow you would justify that a well.
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 10:43 pm
  #213  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=morpeth;12633695]
Originally Posted by Bipat

I think you make a good point, getting a referendum under international monitors would be difficult.

The Pakistanis could say the same thing as you, why doesnt India just leave or accept to hold referendum as India promised in the 1950's.
Morpeth----you argue with yourself a referendum would lead to extreme violence and incursions.
In political terms why should India ---just leave.
In terms of humanity if the majority of the people want to remain as they are, would lose their income and way of life??

As I keep saying await what happens in the election.

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Old Feb 6th 2019, 10:45 pm
  #214  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=EMR;12633660]
Originally Posted by Bipat

Odd isnt it that Bipat defends the invasion of Goa on the basis of historical events but deny the same rights to those in Kashmir, not Indian by descent or religion whose rights were denied them by the Indian incursion during partition.
No different to any colonial power..
That is what is so interesting discussing things with Bipat, the strange logic driven only by Indian patriotism and anti-British fervor and dedication to avoiding any and all evdience,

Still I appreciate her insights into current events
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 10:48 pm
  #215  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=morpeth;12633696]
Originally Posted by Bipat

Amazing you blame the victim for not just leaving. Scary approch to internatonal relatons.

You mentioned poverty in Goa, are you saying in the 1950's per capita income was less in Goa than next door ?
You call a foreign occupier "the victim"?????

I can't give you income figures----the majority were just poor villagers, self sufficient, or small farmers. We were 'next door'.

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Old Feb 6th 2019, 10:52 pm
  #216  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=morpeth;12633704]
Originally Posted by EMR

That is what is so interesting discussing things with Bipat, the strange logic driven only by Indian patriotism and anti-British fervor and dedication to avoiding any and all evdience,

Still I appreciate her insights into current events
How many times Morpeth ----do you have the same reading problem as EMR----I AM British, why would I be anti-British.
Not patriotism----just actually knowing the place!!!

You still haven't asked for my pages of what is wrong with India!


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Old Feb 6th 2019, 10:55 pm
  #217  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=morpeth;12633704]
Originally Posted by EMR

That is what is so interesting discussing things with Bipat, the strange logic driven only by Indian patriotism and anti-British fervor and dedication to avoiding any and all evdience,

Still I appreciate her insights into current events
Bipat problems apply even when discussing current events.
I posted what I saw at first hand , what I discussed with those affected only 3 months ago in India but received the usual responses..
I have posted more than once that with a few exceptions such as Kashmir, and other border areas that the republic of India with its huge diverse, religious , ethnic and historical diversity has not balkanised is tribute to the Indian people..
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:02 pm
  #218  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=morpeth;12633699]
Originally Posted by Bipat

When it suits you you refer to greater importance of 1960 or 1947, but then you bring up book burnings from centuries ago.

I dont know to what degree the Indian army has committed atrocities but they have been widely reported.

In would be interesting if you would ever consider India in the wrong for force used. Hyderabad, Sikhim, Goa, and covert acivities throughout the subcontinent. India's activities in East Pakistan. I am sure if India invaded Bangla Desh tomorrow you would justify that a well.
I mentioned 'book burning' as a reason for people not able to research in detail their background. What happened in 1960 is a result of previous happenings.

Sikkim is a 'protectorate'. Why would India invade Bangladesh ---they exchanged an area of land not long ago.
I mentioned in a previous post the violence in the time of Indira ----against her own people also--those who were against her.
Her land re-distribution/theft (that didn't work). Her son's sterilisation programme etc. etc.


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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:05 pm
  #219  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=Bipat;12633708]
Originally Posted by morpeth

How many times Morpeth ----do you have the same reading problem as EMR----I AM British, why would I be anti-British.
Not patriotism----just actually knowing the place!!!

You still haven't asked for my pages of what is wrong with India!
If you are not anti British why do you describe famines in Victorian times as Colonial genocide
Why do you invent phrases like India ruled at gunpoint , etc, etc ,Etc .
You either believe those fantastical statements or you do not...
Why do you dismiss the views of any and all who use facts and historical record rather than hearsay. to counter your arguments..
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:07 pm
  #220  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=EMR;12633709]
Originally Posted by morpeth

Bipat problems apply even when discussing current events.
I posted what I saw at first hand , what I discussed with those affected only 3 months ago in India but received the usual responses..
I have posted more than once that with a few exceptions such as Kashmir, and other border areas that the republic of India with its huge diverse, religious , ethnic and historical diversity has not balkanised is tribute to the Indian people..
You were in Kerala a FEW DAYs!!!!----what "response"? I just pointed out to you that serious floods happen in India most years somewhere or other. It is terrible for all those affected.

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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:11 pm
  #221  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=Bipat;12633714]
Originally Posted by morpeth

I mentioned 'book burning' as a reason for people not able to research in detail their background. What happened in 1960 is a result of previous happenings.

Sikkim is a 'protectorate'. Why would India invade Bangladesh ---they exchanged an area of land not long ago.
I mentioned in a previous post the violence in the time of Indira ----against her own people also--those who were against her.
Her land re-distribution/theft (that didn't work). Her son's sterilisation programme etc. etc.
Books were burnt in the UK during periods of religious conflict i, peop.e were tortured and executed using the most horrific methods s that an excuse for those affected to resort to violence and invasion to harbor old emnitues for 100s years ,.on the neighbours who carried out those acts..
So you confirm that the actions in Kashmir and other areas were violence against her own people.
If that applies to her it also applies to Modi, ..
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:22 pm
  #222  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=Bipat;12633716]
Originally Posted by EMR

You were in Kerala a FEW DAYs!!!!----what "response"? I just pointed out to you that serious floods happen in India most years somewhere or other. It is terrible for all those affected.
Wrong and fantasizing again Bipat, I was in rural rajahstan an area , severely affected by drought, saw at first had the effects, also in Kerela.following the floods.
So you dismiss the views of all those affected because you did not see them or discuss their problems with them,
As an aside when did you last see fresh water delivered to those whose homes are still flooded whose water supplies are contaminated..
When did you last see the dried up lakes, crops a fraction of the size they should be, the records of individual relief payments made to those whose incomes have been dramatically reduced by drought..
Sitting on the floor in a farmhouse eating a very simple meal provided by farmers affected by drought , seeing children running from their homes in Kerala with buckets to collect fresh drinking water that we carried in our boat puts things into perspective...
This was in November and December 2018. , where were you ?

You can see a lot in 3 weeks plus if your open your eyes and take an interest.

Last edited by EMR; Feb 6th 2019 at 11:34 pm.
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:42 pm
  #223  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=EMR;12633717]
Originally Posted by Bipat

Books were burnt in the UK during periods of religious conflict i, peop.e were tortured and executed using the most horrific methods s that an excuse for those affected to resort to violence and invasion to harbor old emnitues for 100s years ,.on the neighbours who carried out those acts..
So you confirm that the actions in Kashmir and other areas were violence against her own people.
If that applies to her it also applies to Modi, ..
The 'enmities' are better described as unhappiness that they were separated from their relatives and the old 'home'. This obviously continued down the years.
You probably will show scorn but for strict Hindus their family temple is important----those who escaped from the Portuguese and their descendants continued to try to visit.

The Portuguese were not "neighbours"---the people of Goa were and are 'Konkan coastal people'. The Portuguese did not 'settle' as a people.
As I said the Portuguese officers could have just left peacefully and gone back 'home' to Portugal.

Since 1961 there has been normal travel between and across the area for Goans and others.

I said Indira particularly carried out violence, her father or any succeeding PM can't be compared. (There have been eight PMs since)
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:54 pm
  #224  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=Bipat;12633725]
Originally Posted by EMR

The 'enmities' are better described as unhappiness that they were separated from their relatives and the old 'home'. This obviously continued down the years.
You probably will show scorn but for strict Hindus their family temple is important----those who escaped from the Portuguese and their descendants continued to try to visit.

The Portuguese were not "neighbours"---the people of Goa were and are 'Konkan coastal people'. The Portuguese did not 'settle' as a people.
As I said the Portuguese officers could have just left peacefully and gone back 'home' to Portugal.

Since 1961 there has been normal travel between and across the area for Goans and others.

I said Indira particularly carried out violence, her father or any succeeding PM can't be compared. (There have been eight PMs since)
So those who have died under successive regimes in Kashmir other areas should be dismissed as of being of no account because of the PM at the time.
Do you actually understand what you post.
A civilian shot down under Modis governance is no different from one under whoever was in power at that time..

Last edited by EMR; Feb 7th 2019 at 12:11 am.
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Old Feb 6th 2019, 11:55 pm
  #225  
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Default Re: India and the Wars

[QUOTE=EMR;12633721]
Originally Posted by Bipat
Wrong and fantasizing again Bipat, I was in rural rajahstan an area , severely affected by drought, saw at first had the effects, also in Kerela.following the floods.
So you dismiss the views of all those affected because you did not see them or discuss their problems with them,
As an aside when did you last see fresh water delivered to those whose homes are still flooded whose water supplies are contaminated..
When did you last see the dried up lakes, crops a fraction of the size they should be, the records of individual relief payments made to those whose incomes have been dramatically reduced by drought..
Sitting on the floor in a farmhouse eating a very simple meal provided by farmers affected by drought , seeing children running from their homes in Kerala with buckets to collect fresh drinking water that we carried in our boat puts things into perspective...
This was in November and December 2018. , where were you ?

You can see a lot in 3 weeks plus if your open your eyes and take an interest.
Yes I remember now the places you visited.
The floods in Kerala were the worst they had had for decades.

For heavens sake EMR ----I have seen such things multiple times!!!!! You are really being silly to think otherwise.

Other areas have different years of particular heavy rain and flooding.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rains-in-years

In November/December 2018 I was in Karnataka, Goa and Mumbai.
You probably are unaware that floods start in the south and as the monsoon moves north, more northern areas are affected.
It will start for us on June7th.

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